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Author Topic: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)  (Read 110045 times)

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #100 on: December 28, 2008, 11:45:20 PM »
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I imagine that there would be quite a number of Averlanders that would join the supporters of a Leitdorf faction, so perhaps having some descension within the ranks of the Leitdorf family as part of the background story, might cause folks to not all pick the same side.
True. However, a father-son strife doesn't fit for me. IMHO it's better to let Kastor Leitdorf be the son of another Leitdorf brother.
I agree, and wasn't proposing such.  It seems that Karl only mentioned that Marius was Kastor's Uncle according to Sigmar's Heirs.
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #101 on: December 28, 2008, 11:47:38 PM »
Anyone have Sigmar's Heirs around? Someone check out the gazetteer in the averland section for the names of nobles and such. Turns out that Kastor Leitdorf was created by Alfred Nunez in some fiction works. It even conflicts with itself. In one Gazetteer he wrote, Kastor was the count of the Sigmarite stronghold of Wuppertal, but in his Elementalism 2 he was Count of Striessen.

I would go with whatever Sigmar's Heirs lists. Unless we have other sources.
I still need to get a copy of Sigmar's Heirs, and yes, whatever lists are in this could be the ones to use.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

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Offline Irisado

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #102 on: December 29, 2008, 11:20:30 AM »
Sorting out the next Elector Count of Averland would be a good campaign story, and I like the ideas that you have all come up with so far.

It is patently ridiculous in my view that the lack of an Elector Count in one of the Empire's wealthiest provinces hasn't been addressed by now, as instability in the Empire is not something that Karl Franz would want to encourage.  If GW, therefore, don't address this issue (which they probably won't), then I feel that we should resolve it ourselves.
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #103 on: December 29, 2008, 12:57:44 PM »
Killing off an elector was a nice move by GW.  It showed they were moving the timeline.  The problem is not resolving it.  That and completely changing the name of Nordland's elector without giving any explanation...
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Offline Karl Voss of Averland

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #104 on: December 29, 2008, 03:12:24 PM »
Killing off an elector was a nice move by GW.  It showed they were moving the timeline.  The problem is not resolving it.  That and completely changing the name of Nordland's elector without giving any explanation...

You're just saying that because you want GW to kill off your elector  :-P
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #105 on: December 29, 2008, 03:16:18 PM »
They are ignoring my phone calls and blocking my e-mails.
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #106 on: December 30, 2008, 04:50:20 AM »
I double checked the newest Empire Army book and it clearly uses the word "Disputed", while at the same time the last date given is for 2522.  So ... with Marius' death in 2520, no matter who, if any, might have held the title immediately following his death, it could be fair to say the seat is disputed as of 2522.  Also, the madalfred site lists Averheim as "Contested between the Alptraums and Leitdorfs" on his Gazeteer listed for 2522.

The first question is whether or not it remains in dispute after 2523 (which is the start of the timeline previously given on this thread that said 2523 to 2526 are considered the "Dark Years" in the Empire)?

It could be fitting to set a campaign during that time period to determine who the new Averland Elector Count is, and I'm curious if there is any other fluff that refers to this "Dark Years" period?

Also, the Nemisis Crown event is said to occur in 2526, and I'm wondering if there was ever any mention during this event of who the Averland Elector Count was at this point?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 05:38:52 AM by GamesPoet »
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Karl Voss of Averland

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #107 on: December 30, 2008, 06:05:02 AM »
There is an infamous typo in Sigmar's Heirs that talks about the date of Marius's death. Apparently two numbers were switched or something, because every other source dates the battle against the orcs in the Third Battle of Blackfire Pass where Marius was slain all the same except Sigmar's heirs. It's only wrong in that one spot in the book so it's clearly a typo.

I just think that span of time is GW slacking. The fluff is so shotty as to who is running the show and who the heirs are. If I had to reason it out I know that the Leitdorfs are probably doing some infighting and the Alptraums are trying to seize power back from them.

An interesting story would be if Marius had no sons, or one that is not of age, or some other reason that would pass legit succession to his brother Hans Leitdorf. Hans could refuse to take the crown of Averland on the grounds he is a grand master and holy Templar of Sigmar (his order is extremely devout), so he might hand it off to another heir. The rest of the fighting could be between family members, powerful allies, the alptraum family, etc.

We'll never fully know the story until GW does something with it, which may not happen for a long time sadly, considering the rich history and the fullness of character behind Marius.

I say Hans becomes our Elector Count. One thing is for sure though, Averland has no shortage of Aristocracy to lead the masses.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 06:07:33 AM by Karl Voss of Averland »
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #108 on: December 30, 2008, 12:29:26 PM »
There was no mention of Averland's elector during the Nemesis Crown.
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Offline Von Breden

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #109 on: December 30, 2008, 02:19:06 PM »
He was, however, mentioned in Darkness Rising, the novel describing the Storm of Chaos.
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #110 on: December 30, 2008, 02:21:27 PM »
How much info did it give, Von Boren?
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #111 on: December 30, 2008, 02:26:59 PM »
Thanks Wiss ... one question down. :icon_cool:

I haven't seen nor heard anything regarding the "Disputed" situation being resolved so likely silly question there on my part.  Still need to see what else can be found regarding the "Dark Years".  If a campaign event centers around the "Disputed" Averland seat, then I'd be leaning towards having the time period start at 2523.

Having the Alptraum's and Leitdof's be two of the main opponents seems to make sense.

The Storm of Chaos was in 2522, and that's after Marius' death in 2520, so Von Breden, who are you referring to?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 02:34:00 PM by GamesPoet »
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline wissenlander

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #112 on: December 30, 2008, 02:33:33 PM »
I'm never good at remembering the years for this stuff, but I do believe that the SOC was after Marius' death.
Me and Wissenlander had babies!

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finding photographic evidense that Wiss smiles is going to be hard...

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #113 on: December 30, 2008, 02:35:49 PM »
Yes Wiss, that is correct, and I was getting it mixed up, but I've edited my post.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Von Breden

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #114 on: December 30, 2008, 08:55:53 PM »
Von Boren?
:Ohmy:

It doesn't say the names of the Electors of most provinces. IIRC only Boris of Middenland and Karl Franz are named in the report of the council of war. All others, including the Averland elector, are named by their province. A friend has my book now, when I have it back I'll look up what he says and how aggressive his strategy is.
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Offline Karl Voss of Averland

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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #116 on: December 31, 2008, 12:45:35 AM »
It doesn't say the names of the Electors of most provinces. IIRC only Boris of Middenland and Karl Franz are named in the report of the council of war. All others, including the Averland elector, are named by their province. A friend has my book now, when I have it back I'll look up what he says and how aggressive his strategy is.
Hmmm ... perhaps this means it had been resolved in 2521?  It will be interesting if anything else is discovered.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Von Breden

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #117 on: December 31, 2008, 01:12:00 AM »
I doubt GW will do it.

Having read Sigmar's Heirs, I've found another faction that must be taken into account: the criminal gangs in Averheim. With no one in control, these are growing larger and bolder every day. It is possible that some of them are directed by certain factions.
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #118 on: December 31, 2008, 04:56:00 AM »
I agree, very likely they won't.  I don't see GW focusing on any of the various lines of Elector Counts over the long run.  They created a bunch of figures for different Elector Counts that they wanted to sell, and with a character like Marius, it seems to only make sense such a character might work it's way into bits of GW fluff, but beyond that there doesn't seem to be enough motivation for them to do more.  And this line of reasoning leaves things open for folks like us to make up our own fluff for a campaign if we desire.  However, it seems that such will require more reading and quite a bit of creativity to set a campaign event like what we've been discussing in motion, and this will take some time and energy if anything is to be finalized.

By the way, does anyone know what is the furthest date down the calendar that is given as part of Sigmar's Heirs?

(I really need to get a copy of this book. :icon_lol:)
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline wissenlander

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #119 on: December 31, 2008, 12:34:09 PM »
Crap.  Karl, look what you've done.  I see your character everywhere.  Sorry, VON BREDEN!
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Offline Von Breden

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #120 on: January 09, 2009, 09:30:56 PM »
You have been forgiven.

Does anybody have pictures of his unit of Knights of Sigmar's Blood? I want to paint mine as such, but the artwork on the site it completely different from the picture of Hans Leitdorf Karl posted a couple of pages back. What scheme should I use?
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Offline Karl Voss of Averland

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #121 on: January 09, 2009, 09:58:12 PM »
All we have (besides fluff written) is from the GW Website:

http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/empire/painting/knights/gallery/blood.htm

No colors are mentioned in the text, but a hand drawn picture is provided:



So black and red elements with the riders encased in polished blue armor.
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #122 on: January 09, 2009, 10:02:16 PM »
I hadn't seen it as "polished blue" before, but now I do.  I just imagined it was silver in color.

I wonder why GW continues to not provide a painted version on their site?
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Karl Voss of Averland

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #123 on: January 09, 2009, 10:09:13 PM »
From the picture above, the armor seemed very similar to the "Polished Blue Steel" from the painting guide on GW's Website:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=500002&pIndex=3&aId=300004&start=4

But any polished armor would probably due. Judging by the high standards of the order, and the general pomp and ceremony of Averland itself, as long as the knights are uniformly finely dressed and polished for battle, they'll be fine.
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Offline Von Breden

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Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
« Reply #124 on: January 10, 2009, 01:02:11 AM »
All we have (besides fluff written) is from the GW Website:

http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/empire/painting/knights/gallery/blood.htm
I meant that with 'the artwork on the site'. The problem is, the TCG card of Hans Leitdorf shows their Grand Master in different colours.
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I never noticed your height on account of your fabulous manly imperial beard.

He who has such amazing facial hair will never be short in the eyes of his comrades!