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Author Topic: Missing War machine  (Read 11026 times)

Offline Uryens de Crux

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Missing War machine
« on: May 13, 2009, 03:00:47 PM »
Simple as that really, is there a warmachine option missing from our ranks?

I was thinking that the Empire has nothing that fills the Bolt Thrower niche, i.e. single roll to hit, doesnt blow up, high str (but not massive), long range.

How about something like Skaven Jezails?

But without the ratmen bit?
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Offline warhammerlord_soth

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2009, 03:08:17 PM »
Minefields.


Seriously, it is decently gunpowder based, as a true Empire "war machine" should be...

Bolt throwers.. pah....
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Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2009, 03:12:35 PM »
I agree, not bolt throwers - jezzail, just without the skaven bit ;)

Minefields...nah

But...grenadoes

Upgrade to warmachine crew, +30 points for grenadoes. Stand and fire option when charged, d6, Str6 hits, just like Dwarf blasting charges.
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The Barony of Wusterburg

Offline wissenlander

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2009, 04:04:45 PM »
I think our warmachine selection is fine as it is.  Though the Empire is a jack of all trades army, I don't think that we should be allowed the option to take everything as it eliminates some of the variety that other armies have to offer.
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2009, 04:08:31 PM »
We already got pidgeon bombs, what more do we need? :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2009, 04:18:54 PM »
The heavy arquebus mounted on a tripod?



Range 30", S5 (-1 per rank), AS -2, move-or-shoot; T5, W2.
Crew: 2, BS 3.
Point Cost: 40

Add range, add point cost. 48" with 50 pts.?

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Offline Merrick

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2009, 05:11:39 PM »
Also known as the Manly Hochland Long Rifle™.

Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2009, 07:23:20 PM »
The heavy arquebus mounted on a tripod?



Range 30", S5 (-1 per rank), AS -2, move-or-shoot; T5, W2.
Crew: 2, BS 3.
Point Cost: 40

Add range, add point cost. 48" with 50 pts.?

-ile

It was actually just this (and those stats) I was thinking of, though I wouldnt give them the ability to go through ranks.
We go to gain a little patch of ground that hath in it no profit but the name.
The Free Company of Solland

The Barony of Wusterburg

Offline Rodman49

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 08:25:28 AM »
Why would you take a bolt thrower imitation over a cannon?  Remember a cannon is awesome and random which should be applauded in game systems like Warhammer.

Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2009, 10:10:35 AM »
Why would you take a bolt thrower imitation over a cannon?  Remember a cannon is awesome and random which should be applauded in game systems like Warhammer.

Have you read the battle report from Padre recently?

Thats why I want something that doesnt have an artillery dice!
We go to gain a little patch of ground that hath in it no profit but the name.
The Free Company of Solland

The Barony of Wusterburg

Offline Rodman49

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2009, 09:56:28 PM »
Thats why I want something that doesnt have an artillery dice!

But the artillery dice is what makes it awesome!

Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 10:02:18 PM »
 :icon_lol:

It was more a "put it out there" kind of idea than anything serious
We go to gain a little patch of ground that hath in it no profit but the name.
The Free Company of Solland

The Barony of Wusterburg

Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2009, 04:37:14 AM »
Arr matey, a "heavy" handgun unit akin to the Deck Gunners in Pirates of the Vampire Coast would be nice...that unit was 10 pts for a unit of S6, range 36 handguns...of course they only hit on 6s and 1s to hit meant the zombie shot itself...so if we jacked the points up to something more appropriate...(they'd effectively be ranked Jezzails, just trading reliable for lack of pavise).

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2009, 06:47:46 AM »
Perhaps make the mortar a no line of sight weapon and I would be happy with it....no actually it should also be around 50 points because it sucks being a special slot.

Otherwise we have everything one can dream of....great cannons, machine guns, large template weapons.

Offline Helgrim

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2009, 01:07:46 PM »
Though I'm not really one for the steam-punk and I'm firmly in the plausible camp, I think the Empire needs a machine that truly encapsulates the empire spirit; MENTAL!

Now hold on a second with the torches that i can see you firing up! We hear about the ice ray and he terror-bell etc. but we don't actually have any evidence of craziness with the exception of steam tank and pigeon bombs. Oh and the termi-horse. I think a little bit of wackiness will go along way, even if nobody takes it, the choice should be there! :biggriin:

Offline patsy02

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2009, 03:31:31 PM »
I like the mini-cannon bolt thrower, remember to make it armour piercing. Edit: also, -1 strength on penetrating ranks is not so great when it has s5. I suggest having it penetrate ranks without losing strength since it allows armour saves.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2009, 03:35:46 PM by patsy02 »
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline Captain Tineal

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2009, 08:10:24 PM »
I'd like the option for a Catapult or a Balista.
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Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2009, 08:28:30 PM »
I like the idea of a halfway step between the helblaster and the rhg 2 crew loader and gunner squad level fire support.  Yeah yeah yeah you are all saying ratling gun, but sheesh if lowly rats can build one why not the imperial engineers guild, hell we must have captured at least a couple to experiment with by now.  With the reliability of the RHG and a little bit more rate of fire from the ratling gun concept this could be a handy little unit upgrade or unlockable unit attached to the engineers guild.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Twiggle

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2009, 12:37:55 AM »
 ::heretic:: that heavy arquebuse is awesome... it's like those turkish sniper thingys they had back in the day. Maybe it's the kind of weapon that would make the engineer worth while.
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Offline shavixmir

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2009, 11:48:34 AM »
I certainly think the Empire should go the way of the black powder. And that this in itself makes it artillery-dice dodgy.

I'd like to see a pair of smaller cannons drawn by horses (S6, D3 wounds a piece).

I also think, generally speaking:

bow: S3, range 24 inch
Long bow: S3, AP 2, range 24 inch
Crossbow: S4, AP 1, range 30 inch
Pistol: S4, AP 2, range 8 inch
hand gun: S4, AP 2, range 18 inch
Hochland: S5, AP 2, range 24 inch



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Offline Perforated

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2009, 03:12:16 PM »
I certainly think the Empire should go the way of the black powder. And that this in itself makes it artillery-dice dodgy.

I'd like to see a pair of smaller cannons drawn by horses (S6, D3 wounds a piece).

I also think, generally speaking:

bow: S3, range 24 inch
Long bow: S3, AP 2, range 24 inch
Crossbow: S4, AP 1, range 30 inch
Pistol: S4, AP 2, range 8 inch
hand gun: S4, AP 2, range 18 inch
Hochland: S5, AP 2, range 24 inch

Terminators will have to think twice before advancing into this... ::heretic::
Happily this is not 40k and there is no numeric AP value, just plain Armour Piercing.
I think that the blackpowder weapons are just fine. The only potential addition I'd like to see is the addition of a basic carbine, and give that to the archers instead.

Range 18" S3 AP
Empire :: 16 | 3 | 6

Offline cisse

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2009, 05:35:30 AM »
bow: S3, range 24 inch
Long bow: S3, AP 2, range 24 inch
Crossbow: S4, AP 1, range 30 inch
Pistol: S4, AP 2, range 8 inch
hand gun: S4, AP 2, range 18 inch
Hochland: S5, AP 2, range 24 inch
What do you mean by AP2? There's no such thing now...

Also, the range on handguns seems too small. Okay from a fluff point of view perhaps (and then they should hit harder at shorter range) , but not for balance. Many people now already prefer crossbows, with this huge difference in range it'd be even worse.
cisse

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Offline EngineerX

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2009, 04:47:58 AM »
I would like to see the War Wagon make a comeback!
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Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2009, 05:48:38 AM »
In the core rule set I would like to see all ballistic weapon's strength attached to their range and the ranges of all weapons generally lengthened by 25% so you can, for example :-o shoot a pistol 2 inches farther than a man can run in a single turn.  You still can't shoot at a running horse, let alone an elven one, they just move too fast for a man with a pistol. :icon_rolleyes:  The entirely arbitrary and mostly illogical ranges of the ballistic weapons in this game have irritated and perplexed me since I got into it way back in 1989.  Candidly the battle lust game put out by columbia handled ranged weapons realistically and elegantly and could translate quite well to a warhammer table.  The unfortunate thing is that those rules were not made for 6 year olds or complete pedants.  I remember playtesting some hybrid rules on about 3-4th ed with much much longer ranges and additional modifiers.  Played that way as I remember unless you were hidden or moving behind a shield, (we made the shield block an active WS save, and did away with it's passive armour save) you could be shot at all the way across the table in any direction, not neccisarily hit but goofy luck happens.

When I have the spare time HAHAHA I should write out those old hybrid rules.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Missing War machine
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2009, 10:34:26 PM »
The War Wagon would be nice. Just not with the silly engineering devices, but instead more historically based, with a regiment of crossbows and flail-infantry, perhaps a howitzer or two providing heavier fire. Mmm, that sounds sexy.