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Author Topic: American Civil War  (Read 8185 times)

Offline Gustavus Magnus

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2009, 03:36:52 AM »
I think it is silly to try to rate the biggest events in US history (or any history) as being more important than others. 

The creation of the Constitution is huge for starting all off.  The Civil War and Reconstruction is incredibly important for settling the question of slavery and reunifying the country.  WW2 is important for establishing the US as a world nuclear power.

WW1 is often overlooked as the US got in late and Wilson's plan for world peace didn't materialize but WW1 was extremely important in terms of the country's economy.  The US went from 5th or 6th in the world in industrial production to overwhelmingly 1st in just a couple of years time and has been an industrial giant ever since.

Sorry if this goes off topic a bit but it was in response to other comments above.
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Offline Feanor Fire Heart

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2009, 05:49:57 AM »
haha someone riled up Gusravus Magnus's hornet nest. Yeah I have to agree with you there.
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Offline Gustavus Magnus

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2009, 06:53:55 AM »
I wasn't all that riled up.  I just thought I would add my thoughts to the idea of regarding what I thought the most important events in US history were.  If I had truely been riled up, I would have had a page or two rebuttal on whatever it was that got my blood boiling.

Incidentally, I agree that losing the war was the best thing that happened to the South.  Its too bad that there are still many people in the South that don't see it that way.  Some of the forum members may not know this but it wasn't until the 1970s that the city of Vicksburg, Mississippi celebrated on the 4th of July because that was the day the city surrendered in 1863!
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2009, 11:42:22 AM »
I didn't know that about Vicksburg, but I can't say it's surprising.

There's another element of bitterness that takes hold when talking about this stuff.  Even though the south was remade, it took a hundred years or more to recover, in some places not even still have they recovered.  Virginia didn't even equal the mean GDP until the 80s after the Civil War, the economy was destroyed.  Utter Sherman's name in Georgia and see what happens.  It's a step beyond warfare, it became very personal on a familial level.  And being as that we're not far removed, really, people will still remember stories of their grandparents who talked about the hard times after the yankees left.

I cannot stand the 'south shall rise again' b.s. though.  It's just ignorance on a scale that is frightening on many levels. 
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 12:03:14 PM by wissenlander »
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Offline Inarticulate

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2009, 12:57:57 PM »
Just wait. In another hundred years, there will be campaigns for the South's independence just like Scotland. And then the EU will take over the southern states.
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2009, 12:59:57 PM »
There's a big difference.  The south never was its own sovereign nation so there is nothing that would prompt such a thing without another attempt at secession and hostilities.
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finding photographic evidense that Wiss smiles is going to be hard...

Offline Feanor Fire Heart

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2009, 01:52:37 PM »
Just wait. In another hundred years, there will be campaigns for the South's independence just like Scotland. And then the EU will take over the southern states.
thats as about likley as a goat being made a senator here in the US...

but seriously the change of thought has changed much in the south since the war, and with the rebuilding of their economy and well everything, another succession is highly unlikley.
Something we as painters and hobbyists should always remember:
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― Jake the Dog

Offline Perambulator

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2009, 01:55:35 PM »
Just wait. In another hundred years, there will be campaigns for the South's independence just like Scotland. And then the EU will take over the southern states.
thats as about likley as a goat being made a senator here in the US...

but seriously the change of thought has changed much in the south since the war, and with the rebuilding of their economy and well everything, another succession is highly unlikley.

Well all that an immigration to and from the rest of the country and overseas has changed the landscape and the demographics.
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Offline jlutin

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2009, 02:28:49 PM »
Why would the south ceed?  They have dominated the Presidential races for quite a while.

Carter, Southern
Reagan, not
Bush I, Southern  (well, ok really DCian, but he raised his kids in the south).
Clinton, Southern
Bush II, Southern
Obama, not
Obama has spent more time playing golf than meeting with Republicans, his Deficit Commission, his Job Council and his Cabinet COMBINED.

Offline Big Time

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2009, 05:14:06 PM »
This topic has taken an interesting direction. Yes, when I compared the Civil War to Independece and the Constitution, I was being a little dramatic. I was just trying to illustrate its importance.

When you think about, in the scheme of things, the war really wasn't that long ago. My grandparents' grandparents where alive at the time. My first ancestor to migrate to the U.S., Hilarius Schumacher, fought for Minnesota or Michigan (we are unsure which) in the war as a volunteer.

The draft in the North was very controversial, and arguably one of the most useful institutions of the draft in our history. The draft riots in NYC were among the worst, if not the worst, riots in the city's history. There is so much to study about the Civil War, it's a great subject.
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Offline Gneisenau

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2009, 05:22:38 PM »
/ontopic I like the confederate uniforms...

The guys with the prettier uniforms usually lose the war. Weird pattern in history.

From a purely aesthetical point, I also like the confederate flag better than the union one. Sorry, US-boys...

Offline wissenlander

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2009, 05:25:10 PM »
That's interesting that folks would classify CSA uniforms as pretty.  I like the grey (I'm a Wissenlander after all) but I think the Union guys looked sharper in their dress.
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finding photographic evidense that Wiss smiles is going to be hard...

Offline Inarticulate

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2009, 05:28:57 PM »
I just think the grey and the gold go very nicely.
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2009, 05:33:33 PM »
I guess you're referring to officers, or cavalry.  Gold wasn't really a prominent feature of foot soldier dress.  It was usually whatever you could scrounge up.  Though grey was the official color, with light blue slacks in the Army of Northern Virginia, there was a tendency to go with a khaki color known as butternut. 

I don't know if this was an occurance in other nations but the different branches were color coded (in both armies).  Red was artillery, blue (light blue) infantry and yellow was cavalry.
Me and Wissenlander had babies!

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finding photographic evidense that Wiss smiles is going to be hard...

Offline Inarticulate

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2009, 05:34:52 PM »
Of course not, I'm not interested in what the common rabble are wearing!
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2009, 05:37:12 PM »
Well, that's the most fun part, really.  Even still, general's uniforms were somewhat individualized, especially in the CSA.  Though, Grant did wear a basic private's uniform with general's stars strapped to it.
Me and Wissenlander had babies!

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finding photographic evidense that Wiss smiles is going to be hard...

Offline Big Time

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2009, 05:38:55 PM »
Confederate uniforms have a way of always looking dingy. I agree with Wiss, the Union had much sharper unifroms. Except the Zouaves.

Generals could, and still can, alter their uniforms as they see fit so they  are not good examples of standard.

I don't know if this was an occurance in other nations but the different branches were color coded (in both armies).  Red was artillery, blue (light blue) infantry and yellow was cavalry.

Still are, actually.
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2009, 05:42:38 PM »
Still are, actually.

O, rly???  Didn't know that.
Me and Wissenlander had babies!

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finding photographic evidense that Wiss smiles is going to be hard...

Offline Big Time

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Offline Inarticulate

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2009, 06:01:21 PM »
Same in our Army, and probably a fair few others.


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Offline Inarticulate

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2009, 10:54:24 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Fremantle

Trust me to find the only British thing in the Civil War.  :biggriin:

Apparently he was portrayed in the movie Gettysburg but I can't recall seeing him.
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Offline Feanor Fire Heart

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #46 on: October 16, 2009, 11:05:22 PM »
he hangs out with lee and general longstreet alot if I remember correctly.

oddly enough there is an american civil war memorial in ireland.  :icon_wink: 
Something we as painters and hobbyists should always remember:
“Dude, suckin’ at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.”
― Jake the Dog

Offline Union General

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #47 on: October 16, 2009, 11:09:19 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Fremantle

Trust me to find the only British thing in the Civil War.  :biggriin:

Apparently he was portrayed in the movie Gettysburg but I can't recall seeing him.

James Lancaster plays him and he's seen talking to Longstreet quite a bit during the movie. And George Lazenby made an appearance as General Johnston Pettigrew. And Fremantle actually got into quite a bit of trouble. He sold his uniform to buy a horse and was fined a godly amount that I can't remember off the top of my head...

he hangs out with lee and general longstreet alot if I remember correctly.

oddly enough there is an american civil war memorial in ireland.  :icon_wink: 

Fear the 69th New York...
The Irish Volunteers!!!  :icon_cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yavz9rzaOSY


Expect to hear a lot more from me on this thread....  :icon_wink:

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Offline Inarticulate

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2009, 11:16:55 PM »
We did wonder where you'd gotten to ;)
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Offline Big Time

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Re: American Civil War
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2009, 12:02:48 AM »
We did wonder where you'd gotten to ;)

No kidding, this thread didn't seem complete without Union General. Nice to have you back. I was meaning to ask you, as I can't remember, what was the Confederate Irish regiment that fought opposite the 69th at Fredrksburg?

Fremantle was one of my favorite characters from the book.
Work is the curse of the drinking classes.
-Oscar Wilde