Topic: Kings of War

[jtrowell]

About the scenarios, note that the RC has prepared tournament tweaks (think of it as living official variants recommended for tournaments but perfectly applicable to casual games), and among the changes they added two new scenarios, Push! and Control!, and it is recommanded to use those two to replace the Kill! and Kill and Pillage! scenarios from the core rulebook, to make simply killing your opponent even less important in the meta.

See the Clash of kings tournamenent pack for the complete current version of the tournament tweaks :
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10049744/dave/Mantic%20Kings%20of%20War%20Clash%20of%20Kings%202016.pdf

[jtrowell]

For those that don't already know, the standalone historical version of Kings of War that has been mentionned for a while now on the official forums should be released in september (well, preorder late september at least), giving us another option for our empire models.

[Warlord]

Does the historical version feature Mongols?

[jtrowell]

Mongols are indeed one of the themes availables :

Barbarians
Carthaginians
Chinese
Egyptians
Greeks
Huns
Indian
Macedonians & Successors
Persians
Romans
Spartans
Scythians
Thracians
Anglo-Saxons
Byzantines
Franks
Normans
Polish
Slavs
Vikings
Crusaders
Japanese
Mongols
Ottomans
English
Aztecs
Conquistadors
French
Holy Roman Empire
Scottish

Note that in the historical version of KoW, the core rules will be the same as for the Fantasy version, the main difference will be in the army composition part.

Instead of having distinct separates army lists, you have a default generic unit list with almost all units in it.
You have the option of making your army by selecting from this master list the units that fit the era and nation that you want to play, but most players will be expected to chose one of the themes from the above list, each theme will have its own restriction to which units are available as well as add its own additionnal options or upgrades.

For exemple I expect that the ancient egyptian theme will not be able to take medieval knights but should have chariots (and mabe some additionnal option for them like a veteran upgrade or larger units) while a French army would be the reverse.

Note that as the core rules will be the same, in theory you will be able to play with an historical army against a Fantasy one, so you might for exemple represent a Warrior of Chaos attack on Kislev by playing Varangur (WoC) against Mongols or Slav or some custom made historical list from the master list.

It might not be completly balanced because the options available for historicals won't be the same as for the Fantasy version (no monsters or magic for exemple), but even then I think that it should probbaly work nicely, and the historical should get a few thinks that might help (like skirmishing units that get a special rule with similar effects that individual heroes get like the free pivot when activated but no attack bonus from flank and rear charges).

[Midaski]

I like the sound of this.

My limited experience with KoW is good, and my web-fu tells me that most people think it is pretty well thought  out.

However I have heard criticism that their later rules sets were not so good, and gave the impression that much less effort was put into them.
Let's hope this is good.

[jtrowell]

What rule sets ? Warpath ? Deadzone ? Dreadball ? Other ?

Warpath has some critics, but it's still in beta.

Dreadball had it's second edition recently released, with improvement to the rules. what I read was that maybe the points were not as perfectly balanced as they should have (the beta was probably too short and too many changes were made from 1st edition to use it as a base for balancing), but what I saw of the new core rules seems like a clear improvement over of the 1st edition.

And dreadball just had a short kickstarter to finance its own second edition with some clear indications of what they are trying to fix or improve ("Jack" players, team captains ...).

I haven't tried Dungeon Saga yet and not read much about it so I cannot give an opinion on it.

It's true that Mantic has maybe sometimes tried to do too many thing at the same time, leaving them with less time that might have been ideal, but they are also showing that they are ready to invest in improving their games and providing them with support.

Ironically while there are both people that say that they should slow down to make even better games there are also others that say that they aren't fast enough and should increase even more their release rate so that each game get constant new releases.

In any case Kings of War is certainly a very good game, the current core rule book and the Uncharted Empire supplement already give support for people having models from any warhammer armies and more, and the historical standalone will add even more options for human armies.

[Shadow_Zero]

Is there a comprehensive list somewhere that translates our Empire models to Kings of War?

For example, what would the Siege Artillery and Ballista from the Kingdom of Men be in Empire?
And anyone having an idea for Warrior Priests?

[Zygmund]

Not that I know. I've felt it to be rather obvious, but perhaps a list could help some way.

The Siege Artillery is obviously Mortar.

The Ballista could be a Light Cannon (Dwarf Cannon?), or why not a Volley Gun. I mean use an iconic Empire model to represent it.

The lack of a religious leader takes something away from KoM played as Empire. Maybe some magic items could help enhance a General or a Hero, or make the Wizard a fighting guy too. But then again, KoW: KoM is thin of characters, so most Empire characters will never find a good comparison.

-Z

[Shadow_Zero]

Although I like the Warhammer Fantasy game and world, my knowledge of warfare and warmachines in real life is pretty non-existent. Care to elaborate why the Siege Artillery is obviously a Mortar? Is there a general Siege Artillery category where certain warmachines are categorized in?

No Helblaster Volleygun in KoW? 
I also miss the Emperor Dragon 
But who knows, maybe in the future!

[Zygmund]

Care to elaborate why the Siege Artillery is obviously a Mortar?

Primarily because it has Indirect fire.

Secondarily because of less Piercing than the Cannon, but potentially more hits than the Cannon.

It could be a trebuchet, of course. KoW intentionally works with broad stereotypes, to allow many kinds of models and army styles. Mantic doesn't produce models specifically for the KoM, so they don't need to push a specific model for a rule, or make specific rules for certain models. KoM could also work for mundane and infantry-heavy Bretonnia.

-Z

[Durloth]

No Helblaster Volleygun in KoW? 

They are in the League of Rhordia list. That list is quite close to the 4th/5th ed Empire lists.

[Midaski]

No Helblaster Volleygun in KoW? 

They are in the League of Rhordia list. That list is quite close to the 4th/5th ed Empire lists.

I have been using old dwarf organ guns - they fit the spec too as well as Helblasters.
They are also small enough to employ Halfling crews ................ 

[ZeroTwentythree]

In a sense, there are three human-centric army lists in KoW, and you can select one of those three based on what you want your primary focus to be. You can also take allies from the other lists, so that opens it up even further to tailor an Empire-esque list.

Personally, I'm just not getting too hung up on making an army that is exactly identical in composition and behavior to a WFB Empire army. It was hard enough to do that between different editions of WFB, let alone a completely different game by some other manufacturer. When it comes down to it, KoW simple is not WFB. Besides, although some things might not fit into KoW, the game does open up new possibilities as well.

Trying to get all the details to precisely fit is the road to madness. Getting the general feel of an Empire army is the road to enjoyment.

 

[jtrowell]

ZeroTwentyThree is correct, KoW has several human centric armies, and each one can represent different aspects of the Empire.

KoW is the more vanilla one, perfect for exemple for an Altdorf army with lots of state troops, knights, classic war engines and the like (also note that the beast of war can make a very good War wagon, and a decent steam tank)

Basilea is your religious army, with warrior priest, flagellants, and religious knights orders, and if you want to use Elohis (angels) the starter box from Age of Sigmar will provide you with flying sigmarines (sorry, stormcast eternal) that will be perfect for the role of daemons of Sigmar

The league fo Rhordia has the more exotic options, it can be used for a nuln army with exotic war engines (including a steam tank), as well as for a knightly order with a griffon theme (the Aralez riders are your demigriffons), and you also have a shrine that can use the models for the luminark/war altar

And of course with the allies rules you can mix if you really want an army with options from differents lists.

In theory you might also use the Brotherhood as it is another human list with knights, but this one is more suited for our Bretonnian cousins.

Also, not all units in KoW have an equivalent in Warhammer 8th edition, but some entries might correspond to things like some of the old Dogs of War mercenaries units, and others might be used to represent other elements from the fluff.

For exemple you might want to use the berserkers as Ulric themed fanatics, some of the light cavalry might be used for Kislev units, the ballista despite not being an option in the Warhammer list certainly exist in some remote areas of the empire with less gunpowder access (a roman scorpio movel will be perfect).