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Author Topic: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB  (Read 10616 times)

Offline emcdunna

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2015, 07:30:41 PM »
Good for him!

That's what i'm aiming for as well. I just want to give people an alternative to playing old editions (that will eventually go stale) or switch to KOW (which IMO is missing a big core piece of what made WFB so amazing)... so I wrote Twilight Era to be a free option for players to try out

Offline jtrowell

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2015, 08:21:32 AM »
To answer the initial post, I will remark that Kings of Wars is certainly not low fatansy, you have wizards throwing fireballs, armies making use of dragons, giants, and others monsters, armies of undead or demons, and many other high fantasy elements.

What it does not have is tactical nuke level magic that will erase half your army with one spell, or if the setting has them, it's outisde the scope of the game (the same way that you don't have slaans rearranging tectonic plates during a battle in Warhammer)

If you want a fantasy mass battle system, then KoW 2nd edition is a very good one, and has now lists that will allow you to use almost your whole Warhammer collection (yes, even your skavens, lizardmen, beastmen, dogs of war or chaos dwarves).

Of course if you prefer a game where every individual model count, then mass battles are probably not what you want and there are may skirmish games that will probably be better for you.

Offline Shadow_Zero

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2015, 11:18:59 AM »
I was planning on creating a topic to discuss all the WHFB options / alternatives, but this topic seems to suit that purpose fine. I just miss a nice(r) overview in the first post. I still need a lot of reading up to do, but this is what I have so far:


Kings of War:
http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war.html
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,50699.0.html
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,50772.0.html
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,51196.0.html
http://diehardgamefan.com/2015/07/22/tabletop-review-kings-of-war-second-edition-rulebook/
http://blog.untilsomebodylosesaneye.net/2015/07/switching-from-warhammer-8th-edition-to.html

The Ninth Age:
http://www.the-ninth-age.com
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,50863.0.html

OpenHammer (is this Ninth Age related?):
http://www.openhammer.org/
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,50856.0.html

Warhammer Armies Project 8.5 edition:
http://warhammerarmiesproject.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/brainstorming-for-85-ed.html

Eight Edition For Life:
http://eefl.freeforums.net
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,50775.0.html

North American Comp - 9th edition:
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,50980.0.html    
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,50764.0.html

Twilight Era:
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,50950.0.html

War is Coming by Shieldwolf Miniatures:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?413705-quot-War-is-Coming-quot-by-Shieldwolf-Miniatures-New-releases-and-News
      
   
WE 8th edition future discussion topics:
If they ruin/shelve Warhammer FB, can we create a hone a WE.com version , 8.10?!
8th Edition Revisions. 3 Suggestions per man.


I have no clue for myself yet how I will/want to play WHFB for the future. I only play once or a few times a year with my friends (though currently a lot of them, including myself, are in a moving house and/or start being a parent mode) and usually we play a huge-ass battle with multiple armies and take a full Saturday.

At least I know I don’t want to play 8th edition as is, as I have seen various good suggestions to improve the game. Kings of War is the only official alternative now, but when I checked, I recall not all WHFB armies had a book. The 9th Age seems to get a lot of support, though fluff wise my heart seems to go to Warhammer Armies Project.

So what are you guys all doing and thinking?!  :)


EDIT:
For my Empire (points) history overview check http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,50833.0.html
(still work in progress)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 06:13:34 PM by Shadow_Zero »

Offline Midaski

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2015, 03:31:55 PM »
I've copied your list of links into emcdunna's first post as I agree it would be good to show it there as well.
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Offline Sceleris

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2015, 09:34:21 PM »
KoW has had the biggest take up in our group - company supported rule set, free basic rules and relatively easy switch over using the wfb models people had.

As mentioned it doesn't have the uber destructive magic, unkillable characters or deathstar units - which is nice IMO.

If you are only playing a straight "kill stuff" game then it can be a little simple compared to wfb but the scenarios add a lot.

Offline Shadow_Zero

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2015, 06:13:17 PM »
KoW has had the biggest take up in our group - company supported rule set, free basic rules and relatively easy switch over using the wfb models people had.

As mentioned it doesn't have the uber destructive magic, unkillable characters or deathstar units - which is nice IMO.

If you are only playing a straight "kill stuff" game then it can be a little simple compared to wfb but the scenarios add a lot.
Can you elaborate on that last line? Are you saying a non-scenario KoW game is simple? And a scenario game adds a lot? Why is a non-standard game so simple?


@Midaski: Tx! I've added some more links, which might be interesting to add as well. Maybe we should have 1 sticky topic concerning this topic?

Offline Margrave of Kemperbad

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2015, 05:34:32 AM »
Group that I play in has decided to use Kings of War 2ed. We felt it has the potential to remain viable with Mantic's support. Now we are busy converting to the base sizes given. Our first games will start in few weeks. I will be doing  Dwarves with 2 steel behemoths.
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2015, 06:22:27 AM »
For fantasy army-level game I very much prefer KoW (2nd ed). If I would continue playing WHFB, I'd prefer a 7.68 system with simplified magic & characters.

For skirmish in the Old World, it has to be Mordheim. Mostly because it's already connected to the setting and has a funny experience system. Although if Mantic puts its brains into fantasy skirmish, we might see something even better. It seems they have the brains to write working rules with the right attitude.

In general, I'm not a gamer, but do understand games well. Thus, it's very much about what my friends want to play. I can go with the flow pretty easily.

If you look at what I actually play, its role-playing without miniatures.

If you are only playing a straight "kill stuff" game then it can be a little simple compared to wfb but the scenarios add a lot.
Can you elaborate on that last line? Are you saying a non-scenario KoW game is simple? And a scenario game adds a lot? Why is a non-standard game so simple?

I think I understand what Sceleris means.

Basic "bash that army" KoW is simpler than WHFB, because the options and mechanics of moving and bashing are more streamlined and similar across the board (like magic is essentially missile weapon, no generation of dice pools & no counterspells). And there are no special character rules, no counting of ranks, nothing of the who hits which model. Thus if you just concentrate on moving troops and hitting your enemy, the game plays simpler - and a lot faster! - than WHFB. It's not simple as in boring or bad, though. The tactical build-up based on movement is similar to 6th ed WHFB or any other classical/historical armies wargame. What you do matters, no nukes destroy your build-up.

But I don't understand what you mean by non-standard being simple. I'd say the standard is simple, and any non-standard additions (like scenarios) of course add complexity. But they don't add complexity in rules. Mainly trying to achieve an objective narrows some tactical choices and opens others, like in any game.

Just my take.

-Z
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 07:26:32 AM by Zygmund »
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Offline Wareagle

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2015, 02:15:39 PM »
Our Fantasy Player Group in the Club is practically dead. Players threw in the towel on Fantasy after 8th. There are not even  players who want to playtest alternatives. AoS was the last nail in the coffin which was built already with 8th. Edition. 2years ago we were about 12 Fantasy players in our club of about 21 active players. The others were fully in 40k . A number of Fantasy players like me play both. On top , Flames o War and Warmachine Hordes found some interest.

Today we have barely enough active players for a club tournament in 40k.

So the frequency playing fantasy went from 2 large games a month to 2 midsized games in the last 4 months...
With this frequency of gaming, any somewhat complicated ruleset is not of interest.

After having checked a number of rulesets I found two which work for me and the one or two occasional gaming partners :

KoW2 and AoS with Azyr Comp from the Louisville Wargaming Group.

I also looked into emcdunna's WHFB conversion which looks pretty good. However, my buddies are not really interested in any if the WHF conversions.
They rather play 7/8. Edition or something completely new.

The scale is currentky in favour of KoW2 rules and Old WH World  Fluff.


Offline jtrowell

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2015, 02:42:49 PM »
For information the "uncharted empires" supplement for Kings of War is now officially releases.

While still listed as a pre-order, if you buy the ebook version on manticdigital you will already by able to download the PDF as an early release.

For us Empire players, this supplement mainly add the League of Rhordia army, an alliance of humans and Halflings that fills some niches not already covered by the other humans armies (like a steam tank or demi-griffins knights equivalent)

This supplement also introduce the Brotherhood as another human army, but this one is a better fit for our Bretonnian neighbours, but if you love knights you might prefer them.

Offline Midaski

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2015, 03:13:40 PM »
My Uncharted Empires actual book arrived yesterday.
Quote from: Gneisenau
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Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline jtrowell

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2015, 03:58:03 PM »
Good to know that the physical copies are also arriving.  ^_^

Offline Baron von Klatz

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2015, 12:17:19 AM »
My Uncharted Empires actual book arrived yesterday.

Any good brotherhood artwork in there? Or of humans in general?
"No battle is ever meaningless for all life is merely death post-poned"
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Offline jtrowell

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2015, 09:29:20 AM »
My Uncharted Empires actual book arrived yesterday.

Any good brotherhood artwork in there? Or of humans in general?

Not much to see, most pictures are reused art, and the new ones are mainly for the more exotic factions like the nightstalkers.

I think that they missed the chance to add pictures of halflings or Aralez for the league, but let's remember that Mantic has been rather busy since 2nd edition was released, and most of the book contents were the result of the work of the Rule Comitee, they probably didn't have much time or budget for new art on top of the fluff.

Fluff wise however the factions are all integrated fully in the background of the Mantica World, the Empire of Dust for exemple are integral to the story of the Ophidian faction (a major human nation that should have its army released in a future supplement), so all those "minor" factions, while not as important as the core ones in the world affairs, are still a large part of it and cannot be ignored.

Offline Dosiere

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2015, 11:13:07 AM »
I am more and more getting into KoW, for many of the reasons already talked about.  It's simple, faster to play, easier to play, and fully compatible with my old Warhammer miniatures.

What really sold me on the system after getting the full rulebook were the sensible balancing mechanisms in place, unit customization, scenarios, allies, and especially after Uncharted Empires a ton of options for my human miniatures.  The systems simple core rules and points system makes it really easy to use the system for scenario or campaign play.  Not really into tournaments right now so it's just perfect.

9th Age looks great, but to be honest I burned out on the WFB system a while ago.  The cumbersome nature of it just isn't what I want out of a game anymore.  WFB/ 9th Age offers something KoW lacks for sure, which is a grittier system and a more epic/fantasy feel.  It takes so long to play though and it's hard to find opponents for either 8th or 9th anyway though.  I love it still but just don't have the time for it. 

Offline Feinar

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2015, 09:18:42 AM »

berestie

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2015, 09:46:41 AM »
 :? :? :?

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2015, 09:54:15 AM »
Not too difficult, I should think. In other words: Guintili Ware, editiones redde.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 09:16:17 AM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Baron von Klatz

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2015, 07:17:09 AM »
Haha,  long time no see Feinar! I haven't seen you since you posted your impressive imperial army on the total war forum. :biggriin:

Was that your animation in that link? If so, very nicely done.  :eusa_clap:

Also, welcome to forum, Berestie! :smile2:
"No battle is ever meaningless for all life is merely death post-poned"
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Offline Feinar

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2015, 12:21:06 PM »
Baron von Klatz
Thank you very much
Its my animation...
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 12:25:49 PM by Feinar »

Offline Shadow_Zero

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2015, 10:52:08 AM »
I was planning on creating a topic to discuss all the WHFB options / alternatives, but this topic seems to suit that purpose fine. I just miss a nice(r) overview in the first post. I still need a lot of reading up to do, but this is what I have so far:
...
The Ninth Age:
http://www.the-ninth-age.com
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,50863.0.html

OpenHammer (is this Ninth Age related?):
http://www.openhammer.org/
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,50856.0.html
...


Not sure if that was posted anywhere here yet, but reading http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=131073 I guess 9th Age and OpenHammer indeed are working together (and assume, release 1 ruleset):
Quote
Dear All,
since the Captains are in the process of deciding the future of the Fantasy format for ETC 2016, we would like to update you with the status of the "OpenHammer Project" we introduced a few months ago also on this forum.

During these months we developed our ideas and created a detailed action plan for the future.

By the end of August we had a profitable conf-call with the 9th Age Team and the result was that we decided to partner together in order to offer a 360° IT solution and support to this exciting project and beyond...

So far the biggest concern that some captains shared was regarding the "dead game" issue since 9th Age it's not an official supported game from any big company like Mantic or GW itself.

What you will find inside our presentation is a list of features and tools that we will develop as soon as the Kickstarter campaign will start (within end-september/october), this way we will be able to overcome the "not offcial product" problem in a consistent and long-term way.

You can find the presentation of our project at the following link on youtube: https://youtu.be/Y12OIcrSeFg with some audio notes that will better explain the details.

We ask you to take also this into consideration while voting for the future of the Fantasy strategic wargames!

We wait for your feedbacks and thanks for the attention!

Our Best Regards!

Fabio, Andrea & Thomas


Also an update on 9th Age: http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,50863.msg970665.html#msg970665

Offline Shadow_Zero

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2015, 11:24:49 AM »
And apparently another 8.5 option: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/10/warhammer-8-5-im-not-dead-yet.html
(though I can't find much info as of yet who is/are behind it)

Offline Shadow_Zero

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2016, 12:05:13 PM »
Haven't been in the Warhammer community for a while. How are we faring? Which initiatives have died? Which are flourishing? (guess Kings of War and 9th Age for the latter...?)

Offline jtrowell

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2016, 01:11:29 PM »
Yes, some people have switched to Age of Sigmar or some other games that have nothing to do with Warhammer (X-wings for exempke), but those wishing for a mass battle ranked wargame or for the feel of the Old World have for the most part switched to eitheir 9th age (or some other 8th edition successor) or Kings of war, with a few still playing vanilla 8th edition for now.

Some also have switched to other wargames like Avatars of War's Warthrone or Dragon Ramant (the fantasy version of Lion rampant), but 9th age and KoW are probably the most developped options for those that want to continue using large collections of Warhammer models.

Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Alternatives to AoS or old editions of WFB
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2016, 01:33:17 PM »
Haven't been in the Warhammer community for a while. How are we faring? Which initiatives have died? Which are flourishing? (guess Kings of War and 9th Age for the latter...?)


I mentioned this in another thread, but the groups I gamed with have split. The more competitive/tournament focused players have mostly gone to 9th Age, the others have gone to Kings of War.

A few left fantasy gaming behind entirely but play other mini & board games. I don't personally know anyone who plays AoS.