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Author Topic: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!  (Read 29635 times)

Offline Friar Metick

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2012, 09:19:53 PM »
HHG,

The graph has my knights/ICK totals incorrect. It should be 11 knights and 13 ICK. Army builder seperates out the champions. If you look at the total number of horses listed for a unit that is the correct number of models in the unit.

Thanks,
FM
Blessed be those who game.

Friar Metick

Offline zakalwe

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2012, 10:21:27 PM »
I will not vote for my own because, well it seems rather odd, there are 2 other lists at present i am curious/ like the look of that concur to my other trains of thought.
Will we have an open vote or a more anonymous one. I doubt it will make any real difference ( we are all mature enough here to accept the results).


Ofc, I'm just going to plug mine because, it has a griffon in. old model, so less of a cannon target ^^. Also my personal army being Averland, we alone defend Blackfire pass and are therefore the most determined and tenacious of the empires defenders ( cue alternate propaganda with relish  :biggriin: )

At the end of the day, i a believer that all lists are viable. ( true i have been at the painful end of DE before, lost 90% of my army by turn 2) still all i did was whine, and say " well any empire general worth his salt would't have offered battle in the first place against such a hard counter" how many games have you actually used your 60" range cannon.

Anyway, may the most charismatic win!! Pip, Pip.

Offline George

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2012, 01:03:36 AM »
List #11

Arch Lector, HA, Shield, Dragonhelm, White Cloak, Crown of Command
Captain on Pegasus, FP, Lance, Shield
Captain on Pegasus, FP, Lance, Charmed Shield
Captian, BSB, FP, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone
Battle Wizard, L2, Fire, Dispel Scroll
Warrior Priest on barded warhorse, HA, GW

11 Inner Cirle Knights, Lance, FC (Priest goes here)
12 Knights, GW, FC
46 Halberdiers, FC (Lector and BSB go here)
detatchment of 5 archers
detatchment of 5 archers

5 Reiksguard, Mus
5 Reiksguard, Mus
Cannon
Cannon

Steam Tank

So my list is all about movement shenanigans in order to get the charges we want.
2 pegasus for diversion or warmachine hunting
2 archer detatchments for diverting
2 reiksgaurd for diverting/tarpitting or cleaning out chaff
I see this list as a slow advance at the pace of the halberds while shooting with cannons and using fireball
I'm not sold on the lore of magic, I just like casting fireball and possibly autowounding with caannons if I get flaming sword.
i dropped the hurricanum to get a STank when I upped my list from my usual 2400 to 2500 points.

This list is all theoretical as I've yet to play a game with it....but suits the style of play I like.
My Armies:
Empire
Ogres

Offline Harshey

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2012, 03:16:58 AM »
List 12:

Arch lector, HA, GW, white cloak
Level 4 heavens, VHS, scroll
Warrior priest, barded steed, HA, enchanted shield, sword of battle

50 halberds, std, mus.
2x5 archer detachments
12 ic knights, std, mus.  steel std.

3x3 demigryphs, no command
2x5 pistoliers, musician

2 steam tanks

2,499

Thoughts:
Demi's act as hard flanking unit; also cause fear
Halberds provide solid center
IC knights are the hammer
Tanks are the artillery first, counter charge later
BSB isn't needed in this list, need extra troops to help negate steadfast. Focus on winning combat with active res.
Enough chaff with pistols and archers to shoot/redirect
Heavens has a little of everything and harmonic bubble is very effective with knights

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2012, 05:44:44 AM »
One hint for everyone every unit containing a priest of sigmar causes fear in cavalry and beast due to being able to cast flaming spells.

Offline SevenSins

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2012, 06:40:19 AM »
One hint for everyone every unit containing a priest of sigmar causes fear in cavalry and beast due to being able to cast flaming spells.
Only if you've gotten of soulfire, but still worth remembering

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2012, 06:47:43 AM »
Nope read the faq it is enough to "potentially" have the spell in the unit.
The FAQ example is a fire wizard.

Offline grifter

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2012, 06:54:26 AM »
Some additional Info, I wouldn´t use pistoliers in a heavy cav list, First I thought that two units of 5-6 would be grand but if you really think about it one big advantage is that the targets are "hard" so small arms fire won´t do much agains the heavy armoured list so all small arms fire units are reduced to redundancy 40 or more repeater crossbows won´t put a dent into the list as only one in six wounds causes a casualty so only 12 hits so usually the 40 shots will kill one knight...boohooo. If I add in "soft" targets like pistoliers I take the small arms units back out of their redundancy they can kill my pistoliers and gain their points back.

While I would normally agree on this, both Demons and Vampires don´t have any small arms fire to speak of as far as I know. Against Dark Elves, yes, the Pistoliers will be juicier targets if the DE have Crossbows with them; but they usually come in huge numbers and firing a 400+ points unit at our less then 100 points of chaff will still seem like a huge waste to our opponent.

(Also, a unit firing 40 shots should kill about two Knights, assuming they didn´t move and are in short range. Still not that scary, I´ll admit, unless you go with GW Knights where 40 shots would kill about 3-4).

Offline Windelov

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2012, 06:58:13 AM »
One hint for everyone every unit containing a priest of sigmar causes fear in cavalry and beast due to being able to cast flaming spells.

Yes but only in enemy cavalry/chariots/war beasts, not in our own.


Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2012, 06:58:37 AM »
Two units of ten crossbows dish out 40 shots...and it is unlikely they are within short range (12 inch) and have not moved.

They need about one or two turns to get rid of the pistoliers and after that can go back to the knight killing 200 points empire gone by turn 2 instead of 42 points gone.
 

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2012, 11:08:21 AM »
Okay, I am going to close it out with an even 12.  A good number to work with.

Here is the current breakdown so you can compare.  The red font is for corrections I had to make...and the blue fills are to identify which lists have the most (or our tied for the most) units in any given category.  So if you really dig STanks, the lists highlighted in blue in that column sport the most!





The Voting System

Okay-  the moment many of you have been waiting for!  Time to vote.

Here is how I want you to vote-  give me a list numbered 1 to 12 with the how you rate the armies. 

So there is no confusion, the first number is the List number.  The second number is how you Rate them-  with #1 being your favorite to #12 being your least favorite.

Here is an example of a full vote I am looking for (note, I am doing this completely random and it is not how I would vote if I was voting):

1.  #4
2.  #9
3.  #1
4.  #5
5.  #10
6.  #3
7.  #8
8.  #2
9.  #7
10.  #12
11.  #6
12.  #11

So.....in this example my FAVORITE is list 3.  My LEAST favorite is list 10.  No need to give them point values or anything....just "rate" them from 1 to 12.


I think it would also be beneficial if you gave us a brief description of what you thought was the most important characteristics of the lists you rated high and why.

Since we are all internet big boys here I would prefer if you just post your list on the thread.  However, if for whatever reason you don't want to post it, then just send me a PM.  (Unlike TDG1, I am not going to vote in any of the decisions, since I am going to be concentrating on facilitating the bad guys.

I am not going to post the all the totals for every list-  I am only going to reveal which two lists came out #1 and #2.  I don't have a specific time frame in mind...once I feel that everyone who is going to vote has voted, I will close it out.  That being said...don't wait!  Get your vote in so we can get this party started!

Even if you haven't posted a list-  voteThe more the merrier!   :::cheers:::


« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 12:36:27 PM by Holy Hand Grenade »
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline Windelov

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2012, 11:42:03 AM »
 So here's my 5 cents.  :smile2:
1.   #11 For the large knights unit, that I’m eager to see how avoids being outflanked with no chaff and few units.
2.   #4 Like the GS, like the offensive cap. and I would love to see Franz in action
3.   #1 Yup my own list. Manoeuvrable, first line of four self-sufficient units including 3 of which have flaming or can have flaming attacks. A Ld 10 general to boost morale, and a heavy support unit of 10 knights with the BSB to obliterate all that passes by or to support units stuck in combat. Cheap magic items for characters if we are to meet ethereal units. 2 reliable GC to take out warmachines and biggies’. Wizard Lvl 4 bright with something to fit every especially VC and DC.
4.    #7 two steamies and life is a reliable combination, I like the 2 pegasi, but a bit thin on bodies.
5.   #10 same as for 1
6.    #6 Lots of mobile units and I like Huss, though the two hel’s are a bit odd given that most enemy units will properly be out of 24”.
7.    #2 Solid composition, I like the bus to break steadfast and still keeping hard hitters, I like Huss with Beasts (hadn’t thought of that combi), the two ST are a bit cheesy in my opinion
8.   #12 is a bit thin on bodies, fire wizard might come in handy versus Hydra
9.   #8 I like the solid inf. Unit although I’m not crazy about the pistoleirs and outrider, and as he sure knows what he is doing I might learn something about ‘em here.
10.   #3 HHG for promoting the griffon combi  which I find works wonders, not so much for this list
11.   #5 Again, like the infantry part, like the diverters and I think 2 captasus will give us some interesting decisions. Like the artiliery part of 2 GC and a Stank
12.   #9 for bringing 3 units of Demi’s, although I miss some ord. Knights

Did I do right this time??  :icon_biggrin:
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 01:09:55 PM by Windelov »

Offline Friar Metick

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2012, 11:48:04 AM »
Have to leave for work at the moment, I'll be voting in about 10 to 12 hours.
Blessed be those who game.

Friar Metick

Offline grifter

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2012, 11:52:43 AM »
At first glance I can see that my knights entry (#5) should be blue, for what it´s worth.
Also, you´ve mentioned the Captasi in other peoples lists but not in mine for whatever reason. Seems alright otherwise.   :smile2:

I´m gonna vote later when I get home, though I can already say that I´m gonna rate all-cav lists highly, just because I want to see one in action.   :closed-eyes:


Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2012, 12:03:15 PM »
1. #3
2. #7
3. #10
4. #2
5. #11

 :smile2:

I prioritized ability to outmanoeuvre and outfield the opponent, and to have self-sufficient units allowing flexibility. I find pistoleirs and outriders to be too fragile, but I may be wrong here. I bet on us engaging DE and choose list accordingly.

Not sure if you did it backwards or not Wind....but please rate all 12 lists.  With List 1 as 1.  and then rating, List 2 as 2.  and then rating, etc.
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2012, 12:08:27 PM »
Well first off so nobody gets insulted I play the game competetively, I never would bring a hardcore list to a beginners game and usually talk with my opponents on what they expect of the game and alter my list accordingly so weaken it if I think it won´t be fun at all, but in tournaments (as this TDG is supposed to be one) I go for maximum efficiency so I will rank all double stank lists the highest (as it is ridiculous overpowered if you compare it with other armies monsters). So I won´t mention that one again on my explanation but yes double stanks automatically made me choose the lists in the top 5. No fluff bunny points in my consideration at atll as the bad guys lists won´t have those either. I put the name of the list creator on it too so there won´t be ANY chance of me making a mistake.

1.#7 Fandir
Yes my own list I know I know but if I would see anything to change on it I would have done so before posting.
2.#10
Of course only because I want to suck it up to HHG for making all of this even though I think his list sucks salty monkey balls.  :happy: well no I think the kit for the characters is well chosen and even though I am not a fan of the unstubbornness of the blocks he has two units of demigryphons that should dish out serious damage also lore of heavens also should work fine in conjunction with knights.I think the command choices for the demigryphons and the magical banners are a bad idea and would give room for archers that would do well in the list. It is a bad idea to let the lvl 4 ride into the midst of the battle.
3.#5 Grifter
nice presentation of the list I like the....the leadership, etc stuff BUT the list has pistoliers who I would consider a weakness in listbuilding, the blocks are immense and lots of eggs in a basket like magic might ruing the day of the army very fast one dweller on the death star or a pit of shades after the I was reduced by miasma and it is game over.
4.#4 Sevensins
Hmmm.....don´t like the kits of the characters too much and there is no stubbornness one bad round of rolling in the second round of combat could mean losing the combat due static and running away....losing the banner and the bsb in the unit and having the chance of dying. Also only one priest granting one of the knight hammers hatred.
5.#12
The Leadership is clothed in wet toilet paper he should either be mounted and in knights or go with the armour of meteoric iron but with a 5+ armour and 5+ wardsave he will most likely die rather quickly even with the -1 to hit. Sword of battle for the priest also isnt´the best choice as he is a ws4 s4 guy so either make him survivable to keep his prayers and hatred as long as possible or keep him cheap he won´t outfight anyone soon. Too few support characters overall no bsb. Overall the list has little synergy, pistolier weakness and stuff like the demigryphons will bounce of enemy blocks as soon they are reduced to two models the approach in waves with the knights going in first and the halberdiers walking in second gives another advantage to our enemies so the worst ranked double stank list in my book.
6.#6 Sammay
The best of the single stank lists, double hellblasters could really hurt Huss is amazing and good choice of units.
7.#8 Zakalwe
no lvl 4 mage, pistoliers and a griffon general who won´t do much against the undead....nor the demons the white cloak should be on him and a magical weapon considering our enemies.
8.#1 Grazhshnak
Too few characters, too few units, pistoliers and outriders but a stank and beast magic.
9.#3 Windelov
No Stanks beside this a rather strong list with only a minor issue of strange items for the characters chosen on the other hand against the vc magic weapons could be important. Just realized a major flaw in my own list!!! :ph34r: Well could hope for feast of crows after all.
10.#11 george
no level 4 mage and the only mage in the army with the weakest of all lores no real hammers to speak of but the stank. The kit on the characters is well chosen but I think the halberdiers will be isolated for the endgame fed some chaff and once everything else is dead charged from several directions. Seems a bit like you weren´t sure if you want to go heavy knight or regular empire army as the cannons and the halberdiers don´t fit in with the speed I think.
11.#2 Friar
No stanks, no cannons lots of characters with Franz being very expensive for 2500 points and I think there is too little meat on the list and no chaff to pick the fights you want and avoid the ones you don´t want Karl Franz will have an impact though should he get into the mess.
12.#9 Nought
Sorry pal but the list is not working for me at all, lots of soft targets, lore of fire offering little to support no stank no real hammers, the swords also offering little in support. For me ranking as the weakest list. That said kudos for the fluff and presentation.




That felt a bit like work.... :::cheers:::

Offline Windelov

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2012, 12:09:49 PM »
1. #3
2. #7
3. #10
4. #2
5. #11

 :smile2:

I prioritized ability to outmanoeuvre and outfield the opponent, and to have self-sufficient units allowing flexibility. I find pistoleirs and outriders to be too fragile, but I may be wrong here. I bet on us engaging DE and choose list accordingly.

Not sure if you did it backwards or not Wind....but please rate all 12 lists.  With List 1 as 1.  and then rating, List 2 as 2.  and then rating, etc.

Sure did,  :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: i

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2012, 12:18:48 PM »
Damn...so I did it wrong too? So I would have to go

list 1  #8

list 2  #11

list 3  #9

list 4  #4

list 5  #3

list 6  #6

list 7  #1

list 8  #7

list 9  #12

list 10 #2

list 11 #10

list 12 #5
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 12:49:47 PM by Fandir Nightshade »

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2012, 12:34:23 PM »
I was trying not to make it confusing and it looks like I managed to do just that.

Here is an example of a full vote I am looking for (note, I am doing this completely random and it is not how I would vote if I was voting):

1.  #4
2.  #9
3.  #1
4.  #5
5.  #10
6.  #3
7.  #8
8.  #2
9.  #7
10.  #12
11.  #6
12.  #11

So.....in this example my FAVORITE is list 3.  My LEAST favorite is list 10.  No need to give them point values or anything....just "rate" them from 1 to 12.

This will make it extremely easy for me to start counting up the totals.  Any other methodology and I will probably make errors trying to count it up. 

Hopefully I cleared up all confusion at this point.  I am going to add this full explanation to my original post to hopefully get us all on the same sheet of music. 
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

HHG's TDG/TEG Dice Tracker

Offline zifnab0

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2012, 12:55:27 PM »
Crap, got it backwards...

1. 9 - I'm not a fan of beasts.  A reasonably solid list otherwise, even if light on steam tanks.

2. 10 - Spending way too many points on characters (Karl Franz), and I'd like to see cavalry, not infantry blocks.

3. 8 - Lots of knights and good mobility and diverters, nothing really stands out.

4. 1 - Life is important for steam tanks.  Plus, 2x4 DGK is a solid choice.  A good choice of mid-sized knight units and archers.  A little unsure about the Captasi.

5. 6 - A good lore, 2 stanks, and two big blocks of Knights.  Solid, but I'm cautious on mobility.

6. 7 - Good selection of small and mid-sized knights, the HBVG is an interesting (good) choice, especially against DE, but will force us into a narrow window that I'm not sure complements the mobility aspect.

7. 2 - Two stanks and a cannon, plus a good balance between small and mid-sized cavalry units.  My main disagreement is taking Lore of Beasts.  A different lore and it would be #1.

8. 5 - The Griffon list is interesting, and I'd like to see how it plays out.  I'm not sure how MSU cavalry will work.

9. 11 - I just don't think swordsmen are a good choice here.

10. 3 - 2 steam tanks.  2x4 DGK is a good choice as well.  Mobile force.

11. 12 - A single level 2 fire isn't going to cut it at 2500 points.  Also, infantry.

12. 4 - Two steam tanks, lots of drops, and a big block of infantry.  It is, IMO, the best of the infantry lists and I wanted to throw one in the top few.

...that was a lot of work.  Doubly so since I got it wrong the first time.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 01:00:35 PM by zifnab0 »

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2012, 01:00:43 PM »
It is even more work as you did it wrong. I think

Zifnabs ranking

list 1 #9
list 2 #10
list 3 #8
list 4 #1
list 5 #6
list 6 #7
list 7 #2
list 8 #5
list 9 #11
list 10 #3
list 11 #12
list 12 #4

also thanks for the flowers and I only went with beasts because I wanted to be a unique flower lore of life would be the best choice, dwellers, +2 T, healing and throne of vines as the spells we want and earthblood and master of the woods we want to avoid.

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2012, 01:06:58 PM »
Whew!

I think we are finally on the same page!   :engel:

Alright, keep the votes coming in.  I like the feedback on the lists we are getting.  I think the learning/sharing process has already begun!
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline SevenSins

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2012, 02:03:41 PM »
1. #1 just want to see those huge units in action, although bretonnia we are not...
2. #12
3. #5
4. #3
5. #4
6.#7
7. #6
8. #10
9. #9
10. #2
11. #11
12. #8

Offline Harshey

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2012, 03:47:39 PM »
1. #8
2. #5
3. #11
4. #6
5. #10
6.#4
7. #9
8. #12
9. #7
10. #2
11. #3
12. #1

Offline Noght

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #49 on: September 11, 2012, 04:30:46 PM »
1. #6
2. #10
3.  #9
4.  #7
5.  #8
6.  #1
7.  #2
8.  #11
9.  #4. Built the list to fight DE/VC. fireball, flaming sword for Etherals/Hydras/Shades & chaff.  Swords are fine vs T3, ranks for crumble
10. #5
11. #12
12. #3

Lvl 2's vs DE and VC is suicide methinks.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 04:39:50 PM by Noght »
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