Topic: Tactical Decision Game 1.0 Empire versus the Ogrebus

[Holy Hand Grenade]

Even though I am rather alone with this I would deploy in Zone 1 with the exception that I would field the knights on the far right flank trying to hunt down the Ironblaster (perhaps some archers should try to shoot the sabretusk back there too on the other hand perhaps they should kill the gnoblar guards of the ironguts bus....so dwellering them will be easier. )

Fandir off the top ropes in the closing rounds! 

Since Deployment Zone 1 currently has no takers besides you, it is all yours with any adjustments you want.  If you get some more votes, I will post a graph.   

Unfortunately, Polybus is correct about the Rune Maw.  If there is another viable target, the Wizard must change to one.  If there isn't, the spell is wasted and counts as if it was cast.   

I am glad comments/questions like this come up!  It will make us all better prepared to take down the next Ogre army General we face...

[George]

For slightly different approach...I vote for a variation of deployment 2.
I see this as a uphill battle for the empire here as the majority of the ogres points are in the deathstar and we could likely lose more points chasing the chaff than we would give up. The biggest threat of doing this is the mournfang....these guys on the charge into infantry can be devastating.
I feel the empire needs to get lucky early to make this happen.

I propose to alter the deployment of option 2 by shifting the DGK all the way  to the edge of the board to make space for the steam tank then luminarch beside them. With the ogre player likely to go first their mournfang will be lining up a turn 2 charge so will advance a reasonable distance forward. This positioning of the luminarch and tank will give us 2 possible flank shots on the mournfang which will hopefully reduce them enough to give us the edge in the combat. It also gives them a chance of failing their panic check (on Ld 7) and running off the board!!
I would be running the DGK knights around trying to get he iron blaster and then threaten the rear/flank of the gutstar while the tank and unit of archers manourver to keep the main bus from being effective through the game. The issue for the DGK will be dealing with 2 units of trappers and the other sabretusk which will have the sole purpose of making their day awkward at best.

With a little luck we could pick up all the points except the Gutstar while only feeding them the tank, archers and possibly the luminarch if required.
Note that the units i plan to feed are also the ones the ironblaster would likely pick off so I feel these were points we would concede anyway.

I hope all that made sense....If not, I vote for option 3 

[csjarrat]

i'd prefer option 3 myself. i'd try and stall that deathstar with archer detaches and stick them with stubborn greatswords later in the game if needs be. i wouldnt want to engage them if at all possible, certainly not with characters up and running at full capacity.

[zifnab0]

I like Zone 3, with one slight modification - I would move the knights to the left corner to threaten the ironblaster.  Both cavalry units will pose a significant threat to the ironblasters and provide a flank threat.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

The Final Vote

Deployment Zone 1:                0
Deployment Zone 2:                1          (Graz)
Deployment Zone 3:                8          (LSP, E-Ulric, Biggley, Warwhore, George, Csj, Zif, HHG)
--Zone 3 Mod Commandant:  1          (Comm)
       (switch Greatswords/Halbs, move tank to Halb flank, move Demis in front of house)
--Zone 3 “Alpha Mod”             2          (MrA, Soap)
       (combined MrAbyssal and Soapstar’s comments together to form a Zone 3 variant)

We had some late-breaking mods, but since there is not enough time for people to shift their votes, I put the last 3 in the Deployment Zone 3 camp, based upon their comments. 

I shifted my vote from Zone 3A to the one with no mods-  after running a couple of sims in possible maneuver options for both sides I saw that having the STank in the center of our defense is critical.  The Ogrebus can turn towards the left side of the Wizard's Tower and with the chaff reinforcements can prevent our mobile forces on that side from getting it in the side or rear.  Not good.

So-  Deployment Zone 3 (no mods) is the clear winner!

Unfortunately, the internet is down in my building where I live.  I am preparing TDG 1.1 for posting for our next set of tactical decisions, but it might  be a day or two until I can post it.

TDG 1.1 is going to focus on Empire's first turn magic phase and shooting phase.  Start thinking about what you want to do Turn 1!

HHG

[phillyt]

Can't you just cannon the bus?

[MrAbyssal]

Can't you just cannon the bus?

Only if you're really good at rolling 3+, otherwise the cannonball sticks.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

Can't you just cannon the bus?

Aye, we can shoot the bus.

The point I was trying to make about the position of the STank- was that it should be near our defense and not get pulled out of position...because it is the only unit we have that can reliably slow down the Gutstar for any length of time.

[csjarrat]

Can't you just cannon the bus?

Aye, we can shoot the bus.

The point I was trying to make about the position of the STank- was that it should be near our defense and not get pulled out of position...because it is the only unit we have that can reliably slow down the Gutstar for any length of time.

even then, there'll be such a flurry of S6 AP attacks from the tyrant plus the unit's attacks that it wont last long.
feed it archers

[Soapstar]

Actually assuming the tyrant and 2 bruisers plus 3 iron guts in the back row are hitting the stank an avg round will only see it lose 3 wounds.

Tyrant: 5x 0.66 (hitting on 3s)= 3.3
3.3 x 0.5 (wounding on 4s)= 1.65
1.65 x 0.66 (saving on 5s)= 1.08 wounds

2x bruisers = 8x 0.66 (hitting on 3s)= 5.28
5.28 x 0.33 (wounding on 5s)= 1.74
1.74 (saving on 3s)x 0.33= 0.57 wounds

3x iron guts: 9x 0.66 (hitting on 3s) = 6
6 x 0.5 (wounding on 4s) = 3
3 x 0.5 (saving on 4s) = 1.5

So 1.5 + 0.57 + 1.08 = 3.17

Now a single casting of regrowth (assuming the wizard is within 12" of the stank) regens a minimum of 3 wounds. Add in some slightly better rolls on regrowth and a wound each time another spell is cast and that stank will sit there for a while! Throw on flesh to stone and watch it sit there the entire game!

If we're putting 3 points into grind attacks a turn we are inflicting an avg of 5 wounds every other round on them so you never know we might get lucky and break them!

This is all assuming my math is sound, I think it's right but let me know if it isn't!

[csjarrat]

fair enough, i never factor the magic into the maths though, dispel scrolls, rolls and stuff just add too many variables. you cant guarantee you'll get the spell off when you need it, and regrowth on a wounded stank is an obvious target for a scroll if they smell victory.
also, if magic works for us, it can also work for them.
not saying its a bad idea to commit the tank (i'd def consider it), just that ogres have better chances than most armies of taking it out in CC, and that bus is probably the most reliable way of doing it without tailoring.
i always seem to put a few wounds on myself with its boiler mishaps, especially if i've taken a cannonball or two prior to CC

[Soapstar]

I agree magic works both ways but with the spells he has the stank will laugh if targeted, even the uber boosted fireball rolling 3 6s for hits will do a grand total of 0.5 wounds on it! Sure regrowth is likely to be prime suspect for dispelling but its the fact every spell we get off will add a wound back to it (I like to think we will cast at least a couple). I would argue the Ironblasters are the best method of dealing with the Stank. Which is why i'd want it in CC with the bus ASAP. I do like to be aggressive with my Stank in general so maybe i'm just getting a case of insane engineer syndrome!

[csjarrat]

I agree magic works both ways but with the spells he has the stank will laugh if targeted, even the uber boosted fireball rolling 3 6s for hits will do a grand total of 0.5 wounds on it! Sure regrowth is likely to be prime suspect for dispelling but its the fact every spell we get off will add a wound back to it (I like to think we will cast at least a couple). I would argue the Ironblasters are the best method of dealing with the Stank. Which is why i'd want it in CC with the bus ASAP. I do like to be aggressive with my Stank in general so maybe i'm just getting a case of insane engineer syndrome!

-yeah i know, fireball wont help him much, re-read it and seen that spells have already been rolled for. flaming sword could have been really nasty so think we got off lightly with that one.

-lol, me too, had it shot to bits by dwarven cannons too many times unfortunately. ironblasters are def his best way of taking them out. they should be target priority number one for our own cannons

[Holy Hand Grenade]

...flaming sword could have been really nasty so think we got off lightly with that one.

Yeah, just wait till he gets the Firebelly within 3" of the Wizard's Tower and gets Loremaster Fire!

-------------------------------

***Since this is my last post in the TDG 1.0 thread, here is a link to TDG 1.1 if you want to see what is happening next!

[Soapstar]

unfortunately we have rather a distinct lack of artillery don't we HHG. You didn't make this easy for us lol

[carmaul]

Sure regrowth is likely to be prime suspect for dispelling but its the fact every spell we get off will add a wound back to it (I like to think we will cast at least a couple).

I believe the lore attribute for the lore of life affects characters only.  So you could not heal the tank when you cast a spell.

Edit:  Not correct so it is crossed out.

[Fandir Nightshade]

I think you are wrong any multiwound model.....hmmm

[Korolon]

Rulebook says "If a spell of Lore of Life is successfully casted, the Caster (or another allied model in 12inch around him) instantly regains a lost Lifepoint"

Sorry if it's not completely correct i'm translating the german rules dunno the exact phrases in English.

But it says a friendly model within 12 inch can be healed, so our Stank should get his LP's back.

[Soapstar]

Yup any multi wound model so characters, DGKs missing a wound or 2, mage carts, pope wagon, pope mobile, characters etc are all legitimate recipients of this wonderful lore attribute!

[carmaul]

My book is at home.  I thought it said any character within 12".

Edit:  not correct.

[zifnab0]

My book is at home.  I thought it said any character within 12".

Any model.  Brought the book to work, have a 1500 point game this evening

[carmaul]

My book is at home.  I thought it said any character within 12".

Any model.  Brought the book to work, have a 1500 point game this evening

I have crossed out the previous posts.  I have been corrected.