home

Author Topic: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...  (Read 4824 times)

Offline GamesPoet

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 23869
  • Happy Spring! : )
Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
« on: October 25, 2018, 12:39:17 AM »
Questions on Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...

1.  If I recall for 6th & 7th edition, Knightly Order units were better fielded in an Empire army with 5 figures?

The idea being that losing 1 of 5 didn't bring a unit down to 75%, and thus no morale check.

2.  Wondering what this was like for 8th Edition as well?

3.  What was the impact in 6th, 7th, and 8th on this when fielding a captain on horse with the Knightly unit?
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline warhammerlord_soth

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 10469
  • Eurobash : Ascension weekend. Be there !
Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2018, 07:05:55 AM »
following
Have one  on Midaski's tab.  :::cheers:::
Famous last words. R.I.P.

Offline The Black Knight

  • Members
  • Posts: 405
Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2018, 09:46:43 AM »
In 8th I usually go with something like 9 or 11 IC/reiksguard for my hammer units. Rarely bother with regular knights, when I have two units that have acess to S4, I'd have to run a fully mounted list in order to need the normies. I also never take more as they become too points heavy. These dudes are for flank charges and in general cooperating with my infantry units who act as anvils.

I don't think I've ever taken a captain with them (maybe a BSB once or twice). I don't feel like he contributes to the outcome of combats that much with his puny 3 attacks. I also don't feel like I need Hold the Line! They are not foot troops, they aren't meant to take a beating and pin the enemy in place, they need to choose their fights and punch through. If I'm rolling a break tests with them it means that I have already goofed real bad and probably the battle isn't going in my favour. Kinda like giving banners to missile units - if you're in combat with them, you goofed and that stick is not gonna save you!

But they absolutely NEED a mounted Warrior Priest, to mitiagte that rubber lance syndrome. The unit only has 10-12 attacks, you need these to strike home in order to do anything, hatred is necessary. The prayers are just a bonus, if you get them off - good for you but don't count  on it too much.

EDIT: I should mention that even though I don't take normal knights for hammers, they are of course perfect for small 5 men units to chase away enemy chaff and go after shooters (the so called "Vanilla Knights").
"All right... we'll call it a draw".

My fantasy-themed terrain log

Offline GamesPoet

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 23869
  • Happy Spring! : )
Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2018, 01:09:32 PM »
Woah, thanks for that post!

9 or 11 knights seems like alot, which rings of 8th Edition, oh well.  And yep, the vanilla knights is part of 6th and 7th edition tactics too if I recall.  Also, a good reminder regarding the mounted warrior priest, which I got one converted up somewhere, and need to finish him!

I vaguely remember some folks sometimes might bring 8 or 9 knights in a unit for 6th & 7th.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline The Black Knight

  • Members
  • Posts: 405
Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2018, 01:49:55 PM »
No problem GamesPoet, I'm curious what other tactics people can share :). Been playing 8th quite a lot lately so it's all coming back!

You are right about the vanilla knights being a staple in 6th and 7th. I'm pretty sure I first heard of this term on this very site (insert the Elrond "I was there 5000 years ago" meme here ;)).
"All right... we'll call it a draw".

My fantasy-themed terrain log

Offline GamesPoet

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 23869
  • Happy Spring! : )
Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2018, 07:21:53 PM »
Yep, and a unit with 8 or 9 figures, maybe even 10, was termed a hammer.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline FR1DAY

  • Members
  • Posts: 3675
Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2018, 10:44:19 PM »
I’ve been running 10 and 15 strong units of late in 6th. Admittedly in DOW army with medium cavalry
I like 6 strong for IC knights and either 10-12 standard knights as a anvil lead by TGM with laurels of victory to auto pass one break test. I also really like units of 5 standard knights with musician for flanking duty.
There are 40 different shades of black, so many fortresses and ways to attack.

So why you complaining!

Offline Warlord

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • Posts: 10897
  • Sydney, Australia
Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2018, 11:05:52 PM »
In 6th edition, 4 ranks width, FC and War Banner made a unit of 7 with WP seen as a hammer with decent static CR to help.

In 8th edition, I quite liked units of 6 knights - 3x2 formation. Made them very manoeuvrable, and the second rank could stall attack.

I once suggested that you could take a unit of 5 with full command, and put a wizard in the middle of the second rank much like bretonnians, and it would make them a good wizard bunker, and also be able to clean up small support units at the same time.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Online commandant

  • Members
  • Posts: 8526
Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2018, 11:26:44 AM »
I used to run a unit of nine with Full Command and a captain in 6th.   I found they worked well, packed a massive punch and had some static combat res.

Offline Padre

  • Pure of Heart
  • Members
  • Posts: 4301
Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2018, 11:49:44 AM »
I use whatever looks good, or whatever I have painted that fits the army theme. Edit: I am aware this isn't helpful.
Photobucket has now re-destroyed my pictures, so the first half of my collected works thread is no longer working again. To see my website version of the campaign thread, with fully functioning pictures, please go to https://bigsmallworlds.com/

Offline Shadow_Zero

  • Members
  • Posts: 442
Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2019, 05:15:50 AM »
I used to run a unit of nine with Full Command and a captain in 6th.   I found they worked well, packed a massive punch and had some static combat res.
Was that 5-4 or 3-3-3 formation?

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

  • Members
  • Posts: 9717
  • Attorney-at-RAW
Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2019, 07:23:11 AM »
3-3-3 does not have any static CR.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Warlord

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • Posts: 10897
  • Sydney, Australia
Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2019, 10:50:15 AM »
It had a standard. However can’t imagine much punch with only 3 models attacking. 5 and 4 is the go, because ranks calculated at beginning of combat.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Online commandant

  • Members
  • Posts: 8526
Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2019, 10:01:55 PM »
5 + 4 with lances.

That was 7 WS3 S5 attacks, 2 WS4 S5 attacks, 3 WS5 S5 (I believe, maybe S6 if the captain was S4) attacks and 5 WS3 S3 attacks.   They also had a banner and a rank so +2 Static Res.   They packed a massive punch, enough to sometimes break ranked units and certainly enough to roll up a line.

Also because chargers always attacked first they were often not taking much in the way of attacks back.