Topic: Concerning Lizardmen, Bretonnians, and Council of the Wise

[Mike Chung]

This is all traitor talk if you ask me.

The Emperor wants the crown for study or destroyed at last resort.  If the Lizards want to help look for it and make sure Chaos doesn't get its hands on it, they more than welcome to.  But its in our land, and it will be our mitts doing the heavy lifting.  If it does turn out to be ultra evil and totally uncontrollable, by all means tell us how to get rid of it.  But this thing doesn't leave Imperial territory and certainly not on a boat across the pond; concessions from the Lizards or otherwise.

As for the Bretonians, giving up land???  Whats this???  The Empire and Kislev deal with Chaos regularly shielding Bretonian lands from the worst excesses of evil and they need land to come help us out???  Ya real nice deal, just like the citizens of Bertonia get a real good deal with nice stability and all...stability of constant miserable poverty while glorious knightly masters sit golden halls and feast all day long.

[FVC]

I agree fully to these conditions.  I apologize for my bluster earlier.

I am glad we have our alliance!  Sigmar and The Lady be praised!  Our light shall overcome the darkness!

Excellent - we are finalising a list of terms over on the Round Table to bring over here, so you should have those in the next day or two at the latest.

Praise Sigmar and the Lady, the Lady and Sigmar, the... Lady Sigmar? Hm, I wonder what Sigmar would look like in a dress...

Ya real nice deal, just like the citizens of Bertonia get a real good deal with nice stability and all...stability of constant miserable poverty while glorious knightly masters sit golden halls and feast all day long.

Even if that were true (and not a gross distortion of the facts as it is), you will notice that Rufas' conditions, which I agreed to, include that the Bretonnian nobles in the area will honour the laws of the Empire, including those regarding peasant welfare.

[Ostermarker]

Concerning those talking about just giving the crown to the Lizardmen, I would suggest that as we have our ambassadors talking with the Bretonnians, so if we ally with them, it would look (diplomatically and politically) bad to ignore them. We should, at the least hold a council between ourselves, the Brets (if we ally) and possibly the Elves and Lizardmen. Dwarfs who wish to come will be searched for weapons, and have them guarded, they themselves will be detained until the council and then removed.

Mike is right though, we don't know that the Crown is evil (ok its warpstone and it probably is) but it should be researched, and this means that we aren't going to give it away at all in GW fluff. This period of research and fit in wih the Council idea. We have some of our best wizards look at it, they then report to the Council their findings and we then discuss (with the dwarf guarded of course, no armour or weapons).

[FVC]

I don't think Bretonnia would have any problem with you giving the Crown to the Lizardmen. As stated, we care not how it is destroyed as long as it is. I believe we were willing to endorse your Council of the Wise, but if you want the Lizardmen to have it I can't imagine us complaining. We will not give it to the Lizardmen ourselves (this feels like the fifth time I've said it, but our policy is to give it to the Fay Enchantress), but if you want to we will not stand in your way.

[Rufas the Eccentric]

Praise Sigmar and the Lady, the Lady and Sigmar, the... Lady Sigmar? Hm, I wonder what Sigmar would look like in a dress...

Yes, praising Sigmar and the Lady is the correct and proper thing on occassions like this.  However, we should give credit.....  Well this is a trying thing for one as modest as myself, so perhaps I should just quote the noble Herr Star:

Rufas, you are a Goddamn genius.  You just cemented the alliance with the Bretonnians!

 

[wissenlander]

Rufas, it must be difficult to be humble, when you're perfect in every way.

I hope this is the finalization of talks and a cementation of our alliance.  It has been a long and for some reason complicated task and I will be happy when it is concluded.  May our alliance never waver!

[Veldemere]

Rufas modest!

It seems there are only the last steps to take on this marathon that has been run by many of you. So to Wiss, Cisse, Dendo, FVC and some bloke called Rufas I shall pour a drink and hope I can toast this union in the very near future (Empire and Bretts that is not the Lady and Sigmar).

[Rufas the Eccentric]

Rufas, it must be difficult to be humble, when you're perfect in every way.

That's "practically perfect in every way"  Modesty, yes modesty, would not let me claim to be completely perfect.  Anyway, Lord Midaski already has complete perfection wrapped up.  Read his report of Kislev for details.  Still, as a practically perfect person, I must remember to respect my my elders. 

Now with respect to the Lizardmen, I see two problems:  Even if we were to come to a agreement to turn the Crown over, would either Karl Franz or the Scribes of Nottingham permit such a thing?  Secondly, what treasure is within the Lizards power to bestow upon the Empire?  Virtual gold, does not in itself, prove very useful.  Are there some magic items in their Army Book what would be helpful to the budding Imperial general, and would the above mentioned Scribes honor an agreement providing us with legal use of said items?  Somehow, I doubt it. 

Anyway, that's not the treasure I would really want.  Instead, how about suits of heavy armor for our Halberdiers?  Or, a magical de-nerfing of our Helblaster Volley Guns?  Or even a pair of glasses for each of the Engineers to enhance our ballistics skill up to that of the Outrider Champs?  Alas, I doubt they could deliver on any of these treasures without the authorization of the infamous Scribes.  Alas, where is Gargoyle when you need him?  He seems to have such cordial relations with all of the higher Scribes of Nottingham. 

Perhaps, all we can offer is the promise to monitor Karl Franz and intervene at the first sign of tentecle growth?  We should appeal to the Slann's desire to fulfill the plans of the ancient ones.  This campaign is already out of balance with respect to the number of alliances secured by the Dwarves.  By joining with the Empire and Bretonnians the will help the upcoming contest to be fought on a even playing field.

[wissenlander]

I think they came just to establish relations, not much more.  From what it seems they'll partake in the Great Dwarf Alliance (GDA).  They meet up fluff wise in this campaign, both want the crown destroyed (at least the Dwarfs say they want it destroyed).

[Sproogle]

I wonder what Sigmar would look like in a dress...

Burn him.

[Wyzer1]

I wonder what Sigmar would look like in a dress...

Burn him.

bump

[Gneisenau]

I think they came just to establish relations, not much more.  From what it seems they'll partake in the Great Dwarf Alliance (GDA).  They meet up fluff wise in this campaign, both want the crown destroyed (at least the Dwarfs say they want it destroyed).

Yes, I've been wondering about that. Who, actually, wants to do what with the crown?

1. The Dwarfs: destroy it (allegedly).
2. High Elfs: dito (if they can).
3. Empire: just as well if it turns out evil (it's made of warpstone - hazard a guess?)
4. Lizardmen: guess what - destroy it
5. Ogres: destroy it
6. Wood Elves: yawn - destroy it
7. Bretonia: see above

And the rest isn't an option for an alliance. So, the question is not who wants what - every "good" race wants to destroy it, every bad race would keep it for various reasons. That's general consensus.

The question is: Who would be willing to give away the crown to an ally to destroy it? That is where the GDA would break up. It hold together as long as nobody has the crown, and will fall apart once it is found.

If we empire generals agree to give the crown away to an ally, we would have something on the bargaining table nobody else is offering. Of course, the ally would have to be worthy. Lizardmen are. The mere fact alone that we are offering the crown in case we find it is more than the dwarfs would ever do.

That's why I'm against the "council" idea. After all that has happened, a council with the dwarfs? If they behave like traitors, they must expect to be treated as such. If the wood elves behave like brazen brats, let them be sent to bed while the adults talk. And so on. Should we find the crown, we should discuss the issue with our allies and our allies only. If we deny other races the option to participate right from the start, the chance is increased that they consider an alliance with us.

[Schmeag]

As far as I know, the Wood Elves are doing the same thing anyway. It's not like they could destroy it themselves. Also, the Bretonnians have already agreed to give the Crown to the Fay Enchantress.

[Tostig]

I think that what is just as important to consider is each army's ability to give away the crown. If, say, GW decides that the Skaven found the crown during the second week then would it really be feasible for the Skaven community to have enough of an impact in their battle reports to have it exchanged with another side? I can't really see a couple of hundred victories being sent in with "Oh yes, and was the rumour I heard from mother that the Nemesis Crown has been exchanged with the Vampie Counts for six hundred and sixty six pounds of warpstone true?"

The GDA seems less and less worthwhile with time.

[wissenlander]

Sweet, I'm the inventor of the GDA title!

While I'm in agreeance, somewhat, to the idea of telling our old allies to take a flying leap, I feel as though it would not be right.  Everyone calls us a weak race and I think this is the time to show them we're not, and that we'll take the high road while everyone else was throwing mud.

This may be difficult due to game mechanics and such, but I still think we should give it a shot.

[WarriorPriestDorn]

I'm going to start off by stating I'm coming from a very bias point of view as my first and largest fantasy army is lizzies.

I think we(thinking from my armies general's point of view) should give the crown if found to the Lizardmen but only with a fair trade of magical items, and/or land back. As a priest of Sigmar I think of what he would deem best, not what the Emperor thinks best. It would seem that given the very likely chance the Emperor will be corrupted and send the Empire into dissary, it is in the best intrest of the Empire and Sigmars children that the crown be desroyed utterly. The best (or most likely to succed) way of doing this is for the Slann to get a hold of it.