Topic: Dwarf Exiles

[Wyzer1]

They approached the Vampires and have not approached us. You call that a friend? They were the aggressor, and have turned from the alliance first. We have declared war as Warhammer-Empire, ok, I'll admit it. But then, the allies declared war in WWI and WWII, the act of war comes first (usually), followed by the declaration. They committed the act of war, so are in the wrong (IMO).

I didn't even know people were still supporting the dwarves

Wow, I for one said screw em a long time ago. The Imperial dwarves that swore allegience to the Empire are a different story, but I intend to go out of my way to fight as many battles against the local dwarf players as possible...

[Brynjolf Irontooth]

I'm talking about Dwarfs here and not about the Chaos Dwarfs that seem to join forces with the Vampire Counts.

Every Dwarf joining forces with some form of evil, I call a Chaos Dwarf and I didn't mentioned them, was I?  

But let us start first of all, taking a look on the Warhammer fluff. The fact that some other forums are considered representing the other races across the Warhammer World is ridiculous. Do you really think we could represent the Empire? No we are just a very small fraction of the excisting Empire players around the world. So we shouldn't look at what people say on other forums. We should just take a look at the excisting fluff about Dwarfs and the Empire (real fluff!!, not some crazy ideas made up by Dwarf players who definately never have took the time reading their own race's fluff). I'm a bit against the idea that we represent the Empire and Bugman's Brewery represents the Dwarfs and so on. We shpudl just stay focused on the real fluff about our races. Whatever the results will be, Games Workshop will never produce fluff that says that the Dwarfs have made an alliance with the Vampire Counts. So don't waste time on believing they will.

So, there is some magical item lost. The power of the item is that big that all three ancient races (Lizardmen, High ELves and Dwarfs) think it should be put away again as fast as possible. Our realm contains probably more Orcs and Beastmen then Humans. So don't be foolish to think that it is the Dwarfs blame that all those enemies are within our borders. They already were within borders. So it is more then logical that a Dwarf King takes an army with him to reclaim that crown. I mean, he will have to encounter thousands of enemies before he will find this item and will be able to take it back. Some people say, we will find the item for them, but we just don't have the strength to withstand all those enemies. Certainly not now when even more enemies are marching towards our lands to claim this item. It would be more then fluffy to let those Dwarfs find their item and let them take it with them to protect it within their Strongholds. There is no such idea of creating new strongholds within our borders. That ridiculous idea by some newbie Dwarf players just isn't Dwarvish at all. Btw, there are already excisting strongholds within the Empire and those strongholds have even been there longer then Menkind. There has never been an issue made about that, because we are allies. There is no fluff excisting that Dwarfs would ever join forces with any kind of evil. Nor is there any that the Dwarfs would want to claim (parts of the) Empire for there own.
The fact Karl Franz wants the crown for himself is offcourse a ridiculous idea of GW, but on the other hand karl Franz is a human and humans are known for their weaknesses. But that doesn't mean we would have to support our Emperor in this unholly quest.

Friendly regards
BI

[Wyzer1]

The fact that some other forums are considered representing the other races across the Warhammer World is ridiculous. Do you really think we could represent the Empire?

I wouldn't doubt it... Empire (in my area) isn't very popular. Its basically... well... me...

I do think we can represent the Empire. I think that we have to represent the Empire. Why? There are groups of players interested in this kind of thing, then there are those that are not. We, as a Warhammer (and specifically Empire) community are dedicated to having a fun/fluffy/diplomatic/witch burning experience.

Therefore Warhammer-Empire is the best place for anyone who wants to participate to come, assuming of course they are playing Empire. Its easy with a little googling to figure out the major race specific pages

For those players not interested in this kind of thing... FINE! You don't get a vote. For those who are into this thing, they are probably already here.

The other thing is the law of averages. While there is no way to prove this wrong or right, we likely do represent the majority of opinions were the other Empire players asked.

I think the same thing applies to other races as well

[Brynjolf Irontooth]

I agree this could do for the Empire, but if Bugman's Dwarfs have made unfluffy alliances I don't think they will represent their race at all. I can't come up with local players who would ever want to join forces with Vampire Counts.

Secondly I want to point out that GW has put the Empire players in a damned horrible situation. Why would the Empire ever want to end up having trouble with the Dwarfs? It has never occured before and wouldn't be logical at all. But now we are more or less forced to break our alliances with the Dwarfs. I'm interested in how GW will solve this after this campaign. Dwarfs known for their grudges would never ever want to join forces with us ever again. So will GW after putting us in this unfluffy situation afterwards put the Dwarfs in one as well, just so we can bash eachother for one summer. I think GW should have come up with a more fluffy solution. But it seems they just said: euh, because the want the crown themselves? But that's totally unfluffy! Who cares. We will fix it afterwards. Just plain stupid.

So I'm going to bash some Orcs and other evil creatures so I don't have do pretend everything that will happen summer, never happened. So let us join forces with the Dwarfs, High Elves and Bretonnia (like GW will ever care about giving them Marienburg, met them dream) and bash all evil we come across.

Friendly regards
BI

[wissenlander]

Isn't that what we said?  We're trying to work inner forum to make the fluff work.  To make it make sense.

We don't want to fight the dwarfs and we should at least have a NAP with them if nothing else.  Relations are strained with every good race right now, at least us vs. them.  Everyone has stated they won't out and out attack us, but there may be some issue down the road.

If we just stick to what GW said and be good little boys and girls, what's the point of doing anything?  They've already decided it, which isn't the case in this campaign.  They may skew it the way they want in the end, but at least we have a chance to work the fluff the way we want.

[Brynjolf Irontooth]

Well i read a whole lot of post that said: let us kill those stunties. So that is not the way I look upon an alliance. 

Nor do I support the idea of believing that the Dwarfs are here to cause trouble and should be kicked back to their strongholds.

But I admit you seemed to look upon this matter more like I said in my previous post, but there are others posting here as well, who might need to get convinced, the thing I was trying. 


Friendly regards
BI

[wissenlander]

I'll be the first to admit there is a lot of hostility towards the dwarfs right now.  This has nothing to do with the race itself, more with the way negotiations took place at Bugman's.  There are a lot of reasons people are upset, but I don't think there is an open warfare policy.  A lot of their talk was about how easily corruptable and fickle our race was, and for us to go to them with an open hand of friendship only to get a punch in the stomach (or lower in some regards) it will cause some resentment.

The fact that GW posted one bit of fluff about how one army/regiment/man attacked a Dwarf led them to want to fight our whole nation than to work something out.  I know that our nations are one of the big three in this campaign, but I and others think it was handled the wrong way.

[Perambulator]

Irontooth, I'm not in the Nemesis Campaign, but I've been following the discussions with the Dwarves and the HE. I don't know how far back in the postings you've read as you are relatively new to the forums (not much newer than me of course  ) but I think you may have missed the part about the Dwarves making friendly overtures to the VC over the Empire which seems to be certainly more out of character than hostility towards the Empire. The "kill the stunties" remarks are understandable reactions given that.

[Brynjolf Irontooth]

I actually poitned out that any Dwarfs making such an alliances are considered Chaos Dwarfs if you ask me and that these sort of things are indeed totally unfluffy.

The point is there are three different points of view on this matter. You have the point of view that is supported by fluff. You have the point of view made on what other forums say. And there is the point of view supported by what GW has forced us to do.

This makes this matter quite hard. I mean, if we get a lot of wins, and even if we are willing to give the Crown back to the Dwarfs, GW may say: a lot of wins, this means the Empire ends up having the crown. While that might not be our intention.

GW won't look at the results between Empire and Dwarf battles, ... But will just take a look at the overall results. Empire has 3000 wins, it doesn't matter versus who, Dwarfs have XXXX wins and so on. The one with the most wins will have achieved what they have forced us to fight for.

Friendly regards
BI

[wissenlander]

It is complicated, but all we can do is post fluff the way we want.  I hear this is based off of the Medusa route from 40K which GW did a fair job of listening to the players.  I don't think everyone got their way or were happy, but at least we have more control in this one than any other.  SoC was unfortunately pre determined and set up so we couldn't do much.

[Brynjolf Irontooth]

Ok then, what do you suggest, Sir. 

Keeping friendly versus Dwarfs, High Elves and Bretonnia and kicking everything else where it hurts? Which alliances do we already have made?


Friendly regards
BI

[Mark Perry]

All we can do as has been pointed out is to win as many battles we can and back it up with a coherant, consistant fluff line. If we do this then there is a chance that GW will take note of this and it will be reflected in their story line.

Try to fight our traditional enemys in battles if possable eg O&G, Chaos, Beastmen etc.