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Author Topic: Alliance with Elves?  (Read 6931 times)

Offline wissenlander

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Alliance with Elves?
« on: June 12, 2007, 12:37:32 PM »
Alright, things are getting confusing in the other Elf thread.  I want to know who actually wants an alliance (in any form with the Elves).  There is a lot of 'clip their ears' talk going on and it's hard to discuss a treaty with all of the opinions.

If you have any grievances post them here and type a YES or a NO at the end of your point.  This will help the diplomat corps if we should proceed or not.  Keep it clean and don't insult anyone too much.
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Offline cisse

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2007, 12:50:05 PM »
Yes (I suppose we're talking about a NAP here?)

Simply put, yes, it's possible that we might come to blows later, but as long as we can avoid combat, good.
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Offline Volkbane

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2007, 12:58:18 PM »
No.

They will accept nothing but the Crown's destruction.  This is an uninspired, boring resolution and contrary to our stated objective.  If they reconsider their own position, maybe, but until then their goals are clearly more in line with the Dwarves.
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Offline Veldemere

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2007, 01:21:18 PM »
In spite of the treatment I have recieved at the hands of the High Elves (on this forum) and wood elves (as an ambassador) I do not think it is wise to turn our backs on them, so whilst I will toy with the ambasador they have sent I think a NAP would be worthwhile with them.

We are better saving our hatred for our true enemies (but leaving just a little for the Dwarves!).

YES to NAP
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2007, 01:24:16 PM »
I see them High Elves as arrogant little childs who will bring us more pain than pleasure....lets first show them that we are a nation to calculate with in the bigger plans of all races. At the moment the dwarves and the elves suffer from a lack of respect for the Empire. Let us show them some...

So a clear NO from me.

Offline wissenlander

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2007, 01:35:09 PM »
I should chime in here now that a few have stated their view.

The Dwarfs and the Elves are acting the way they act based upon their superior viewpoint.  We have been allies with them in the past, and I will still do everything that I can to make sure that my army at least will not fight them.  We should not be short sighted and become arrogant like the Elves or Dwarfs.  I believe we should shove their haughty words down their throats and take the higher road.

Also, we will have enough enemies in this campaign.  We may not be able to ally with the Elves, but at least an agreement to where we'll stay out of each others way (NAP) would be beneficial.  We can focus on other areas that need attention.

With that I vote YES
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Offline Perambulator

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2007, 01:36:21 PM »
Frankly until the crown is recovered, we could use the help, or at the very least we don't need the extra enemy. I vote yes.
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Offline Tostig

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2007, 01:48:06 PM »
NO

But a no on the grounds that I can't see there being a feasible alliance which would bring us any tangible gain. This isn't to say that we should focus our efforts against the Elves, but rather that I just can't be bothered with them. Orcs and to a lesser (but still comparable) extent Dwarfs are more important.

Offline Volkbane

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2007, 01:49:34 PM »
They are the ally of our rivals.  There is a reason the US didn't try to get an alliance with Germany before declaring war on Japan.

Edit: To clarify:  How can we promise, or accept a promise of NO AGGRESSION from the ALLY of an AGGRESSIVE race?  Make no mistake dwarves are our opponents in this campaign.  This is not Storm of Chaos anymore, they are a rival race in the main triumvirate.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 02:20:11 PM by Volkbane »
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Offline Frosty

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2007, 01:54:59 PM »
I vote YES...   The Elves may be arrogant but thats just way they are.  
We may not agree with them siding with the devious dwarves but we can't risk a falling out with them entirley...We might need thier help in fighting the evil forces if chaos again in the future.

I would like a full alliance but as thats seems impossible right now, NAP will have to do.
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Offline clausewitz

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2007, 05:31:16 PM »
Orc WAAAGH's beset us.
Chaos warbands harrass us.
Herds of beasts infest our forests.
Vile rat-things inhabit unknown areas beneath us.
The undead of Sylvania are an ever-present threat.
Druchi raid our coasts.
Settra marches on Altdorf.
The dwarfs and their ogre allies have invaded us.

Ask yourself, is it really wise to reject the possibility of making one less enemy?

I vote yes.
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Offline Tostig

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2007, 05:37:19 PM »
Quote
Ask yourself, is it really wise to reject the possibility of making one less enemy?

Better to ask, do we really have the possibility of making the Elves less of an enemy than they are at the moment? I myself reckon no, because the Elves seem to have sided themselves with the Dwarfs and Ogres already, and any NAP with them would be both subservient to that. Further more any NAP would also be torn up if GW decides that we get the crown, even temporarily. Added to which they wouldn't be concentrating their efforts against us anyway even if we didn't sign it - unless we got the crown, in which case it would be worthless. Finally signing it would no doubt have very little effect on the game-mechanics side of things.

Offline Helstrum

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2007, 06:04:59 PM »
We have to consider one thing... it's not the crown who'll save us from the next chaos tide or whatever the treat...  Then I think that we should keep our old allies by our side...  Remember that the campaign for the crown won't be eternal.

Then YES

Offline Dendo Star

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2007, 06:07:24 PM »
I vote yes.
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2007, 07:11:54 PM »
So far the vote is 8-3.  In favor of a NAP with the High Elves.
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Offline Ostermarker

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2007, 07:17:04 PM »
IC: I thought that the oaths of Dwarfs were the solidest thing you couldfind, and yet, here we are. There aggression started this. There insults to our ambassadors shows the arrogance of the Elves. The Elves foolhardy approach and then condemnation of us and there uncompromising attitude to thei ideas shows the stubbornness of the Dwarfs. I no longer see two races, I see the "Elder Race" of two groups: one short, one tall. Elder is not always better!

OOC: Fluffwise, we can't really side with the Elves unless they agree to a council of the wise including the entireity of the old Conclave. Not just the GDA. We're after it for KF, and a CotW could work in the fluff, plain destruction is not going alongside the fluff.

Many people at that would say:"And the Brets?" But what they're after is land, which is incorporated in the agreement. We want the crown for study which works in the CotW, they want it destroyed, why have their own council?

A NAP would show a form of acknowldegement of the Conclave even if the Elder Race will not care about it. It would be better not to face each other, we both have better enemies, or certainly ones which would be more productive to take out.

In this vein it may be a good idea to approach the Dwarfs again for a NAP, although if their reaction is anything similar to their reaction to our alliances (and our approaches to other races) then they shall be an enemy (and probably go into the Book of Grudges of my DoW Dwarfs :biggriin:)
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Offline HeraldOfTheFree

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2007, 08:29:11 PM »
NO
The thing is, however much we might want them as allies, unless they want us 100%, 100% loyalty, they will betray us. I don't want to be betrayed by them, I want to know who my enemies are from campaign start to end.
don't trust the Elves... they have forsaken their feud with the Dwarfs to fight against us. Surely you guys can see, that in the grim darkness of the near future, there is only war?
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2007, 08:33:33 PM »
Someone's been playing a bit too much 40K lately. :wink:
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finding photographic evidense that Wiss smiles is going to be hard...

Offline HeraldOfTheFree

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2007, 08:52:39 PM »
I have just NitroMorsed my Sisters of Battle  :icon_mrgreen:
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Offline Gneisenau

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2007, 09:10:43 PM »
An alliance only if they pay first for their stupidity of allying with the dwarfs. But a NAP is in order.

Be reasonable, gentlemen. "More foes, more honour!" is not a sound principle of warfare.

Yes.

Offline fearlessgod

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2007, 09:18:07 PM »
Frankly, we have too many enimies as it is. Why make one of the Elves?

I vote YES


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Offline FVC

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2007, 01:49:21 AM »
Be reasonable, gentlemen. "More foes, more honour!" is not a sound principle of warfare.

:Ohmy: It's not? You mean everything I was ever taught about chivalry is a lie?

Anyway, I know it is not my place, but if I may be allowed to chime in on behalf of Bretonnia... you know well that we hope to mediate between the members of the Conclave of Light, in the interests of forming a united front against the foes that imperil all our lands. With that in mind, I urge you to make every effort to form a united front with the elves of Ulthuan. It was not long ago that you stood shoulder to shoulder against the force of darkness, and though you are wronged, reviling them again will only compound the wrong. They have done much for you, and you much for them - the bonds between your two nations should be stronger than this. You may not be able to agree upon the matter of the Crown, but that does not preclude cooperation in other regions.

Offline Nog64

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2007, 01:57:02 AM »
Well, as I recall, the Brets and WE are banding to together, no? So I say we can (on certain terms, of course) have a very nice allaince with the Elves, provided some compromise. If they are willing to listen, then we should speak.
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Offline Volkbane

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2007, 02:49:10 AM »
I haven't seen anyone propose how you can have a non agression pact with someone who's already allied to your enemy.  If they support the dwarves in a conflict against us, then all of this "preserve the alliances" is just prattle.  It may sound nice, and be filled with agreeable platitudes but it doesn't change the boldfaced statement, which has to be confronted if such an agreement is to be worked out.

Imagine if during the Storm of Chaos, we allied with Bretonnia, but Bretonnia had had signed a non-agression pact with Chaos.  Who would trust them on either side in that case?  Do you see the absurdity?

I wouldn't mind a NAP with them in principle, but not under present terms.  If they break off their support for Dwarves and become truly neutral, then I would change my vote.

In other words: I don't see how you can agree never to fight someone who's already agreed to help another faction fight you.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2007, 02:51:22 AM by Volkbane »
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Offline Sir Seigfried

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Re: Alliance with Elves?
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2007, 06:44:25 AM »
I haven't seen anyone propose how you can have a non aggression pact with someone who's already allied to your enemy.
U cant be enemies with some1 on the same overall side. The dwarfs/HE want the NM destroyed, we want to study it and destroy it if it is deemed unsafe. So the dwarfs are not in fact our enemies but our RIVALS.

If they support the dwarfs in a conflict against us, then all of this "preserve the alliances" is just prattle.
From what I've seen, the HE have said that if the dwarfs make an aggressive step toward us then they wont support them. In saying that though, they also said if we attack the dwarfs, then they will attack us.

A NAP with the HE would be good for numerous reasons, if it had conditions. Which I'm sure it will.

A few if these that mite benefit us could be ...

1. No fighting between the races, period. Even if there is a dwarf/empire fight.

2. We could put a clause in, that if either race finds the crown, a Cotw with Representatives from the good races could be called. (if not all the good races if the HE find it, then at least the empire)

3. No land conquering by the HE. and no toleration of the same from their Allys

4. Possible aid in helping defending the lands of the empire. (maybe more of an alliance thing?)

So on that note thats a ... Yes