Topic: The weapons and armour thread

[Captain Dob Van Dwi]

Oh btw were you able to take a look at forgotten weapons?

https://www.youtube.com/user/ForgottenWeapons/videos

[Zak]

Oh btw were you able to take a look at forgotten weapons?

https://www.youtube.com/user/ForgottenWeapons/videos

WOW that was cool, so many weird and wild guns !! I'm going to have to take sometime in this site.

[shavixmir]

To the OP: what a crock of shite.
There’s a grande difference in owning a weapon in support of the revolution and owning a gun, because it’s more interesting to rub up against than your wife.

Not mine though, the other day she came into the room with a couple of 45’s... and a gun in her hand.
Boom boom.

[Captain Dob Van Dwi]

Pifft....

[Zak]

Pifft....

double pifft

[Grutch]

Somebody get Shavixmir another beer.

[Captain Dob Van Dwi]

I think these are super neat; ://www.forgottenweapons.com/spanish-anarchist-pistols-the-re-and

[Zak]

OK, I don't want this thread to die ...why do you like communism? the way you are talking about it its more of a common communal living where everyone agrees on the rules of the group. What about a nation? what about millions of people? 

[Captain Dob Van Dwi]

For me Zak, my dislike of capitalism has less to do with economics and more with the fact that, I personally, find it to be morally repugnant.

Murray Bookchin (the founder of Libertarian-Municipalism) said this of advertising;

"So deeply rooted is the market economy in our minds that its grubby language had replaced our most hallowed moral and spiritual expressions. We now 'invest' in our children, marriages, and personal relationships, a term that is equated with words like 'love' and 'care'. We live in a world of 'trade offs' and we ask for the 'botton line' in any emotional 'transaction'. We use the terminology of of of contracts rather than that of loyalties and spiritual affinities"

This is by far and large the one of the truest things ever spoken imo. If capitalism has corrupted our speach to such an extent, what has it done to our hearts? Make no mistake, as far as I am concerned, capitalism is a parasitic ideology that feeds off man's darkest thoughts and desires. It places those who have the blackest hearts above others via exploitation of their fellows, all the while crushing them in to the dirt. The Plutocrat laughs, as the Proletariat drudge and bleed for people who don't care about them, while the rage of the Percariat festers in the shadows, from fear and the possibility of homelessness. All the while the Bourgeoisie do nothing at all to cure or rectify this injustice, for yes their lives are built on it.

I recognize that some, or a little bit of capitalism is alright (small business, self employment, etc) , even a scumbag like Lenin saw that. For it to take over society (corperations, PMCs, mass industry with out at least a minimum wage, etc) however is totally unacceptable.

I should probably stop... 

As for the nation that x-commune would reside in, who cares? Let them do as they wish, so long as we are able to live life our way.

As for millions of people. I know most of them won't be interested in commual/collective living, let alone the collectivization of a CEO's holdings. Most would not want to live with the fact that all business within, say, the automotive industry, would be managed by a worker's council. The idea of one boss, one worker, if you will, is still prevalent in people's minds.

Therefore one must seek out those of fellow mind, rather than force others to think like you. To work together will those of kindred spirt to better ourselves and if they are willing our community.

Peter Kropotkin (the founder of Anarcho-Communism) one said this to Vladimir Lenin;

Vladimir Ilyich (Lenin's real last name), your concrete actions are completely unworthy of the ideas you pretend to hold.

Is it possible that you do not know what a hostage really is — a man imprisoned not because of a crime he has committed, but only because it suits his enemies to exert blackmail on his companions? … If you admit such methods, one can foresee that one day you will use torture, as was done in the Middle Ages.

I hope you will not answer me that Power is for political men a professional duty, and that any attack against that power must be considered as a threat against which one must guard oneself at any price. This opinion is no longer held even by kings... Are you so blinded, so much a prisoner of your own authoritarian ideas, that you do not realise that being at the head of European Communism, you have no right to soil the ideas which you defend by shameful methods … What future lies in store for Communism when one of its most important defenders tramples in this way every honest feeling?

Letter to Vladimir Lenin, 21 December 1920 

I agree with this. To force others in to submitting goes against everything you are trying to achive, and had more in common with what you are trying to stop.

I could go on but I think you get the idea.

 

[Zak]

good response and its alluring idea but I'm all about freedoms to fail or succeed and a free market allows this. However, it also allows for selfishness, corruption etc. but this is more about human greed and less the system in which people operate in.   

[patsy02]

"So deeply rooted is the market economy in our minds that its grubby language had replaced our most hallowed moral and spiritual expressions. We now 'invest' in our children, marriages, and personal relationships, a term that is equated with words like 'love' and 'care'. We live in a world of 'trade offs' and we ask for the 'botton line' in any emotional 'transaction'. We use the terminology of of of contracts rather than that of loyalties and spiritual affinities"

This is a bit too sentimental and high-minded for my tastes. The use of "capitalistic" terminology strikes me more as a practical use of metaphor for realities about the human condition that predate capitalism by a few myriads of years.

Would you work hours for nothing in return? That's a bad tradeoff. Would you let yourself be a doormat in a relationship? That's a bad bottom line.

Would you exploit someone else's affection for you for personal gain? You'd be hard pressed to hear someone refer to that as a decent ROI -- even in this decadent, immoral capitalist society.

Here's some capitalistic lingo: You invest time and attention in your child in order to maximise the potential success of your offspring. To translate, you want what's best for your child by caring for it, because you care about it.

[Captain Dob Van Dwi]

I see where you are coming from, and if you are ok with such lingo infiltrating that ok. Me, I hate it.

[Grutch]

Captain Dob Van Dwi, you're the communist I could get along with. 

If I lived on your island and the people revolted and instituted this new government, I would pack my bags and sail away wishing you and your comrades the best. Id people want to live as communists, go on ahead and don't force anyone else to go along with it.  Its when they turn their nations into prisons and people have no ability to leave where I have huge problems.  It's enough that in a revolution there goes your property and possessions and you're forced to live with a family of strangers because of shortage of housing.  It's nightmarish when the government says, if you leave we will kill or imprison you and your family. 

I don't have a problem of voluntary communist enclaves or nations.  But the way communism has been attempted anywhere in the world up to this date is a total fucking nightmare. 
 

[patsy02]

I see where you are coming from, and if you are ok with such lingo infiltrating that ok. Me, I hate it.

I get that it's not strictly about the language, but about the underlying mentality. However, I can't really say I've heard that type of terminology in any great amount. I've heard things like "invest in the future" in reference to sustainability and children, but that's usually in the context of budgeting and policy. I've heard "transaction" used about relationships, in the sense that most of them realistically are give-and-take arrangements.

[Artobans Ghost]

Quote Captain: I should probably stop..

Don’t! I would move to the island and give it a try. Like Grutch says. If it fails there’s a way out but if it works, it works  well.

[Zak]

through out history these types of communes existed but eventually others would destroy them for the "corruption" they could have on their own societies. I know the early US colonists worried the native American culture would lure their young people away lol

[Artobans Ghost]

through out history these types of communes existed but eventually others would destroy them for the "corruption" they could have on their own societies. I know the early US colonists worried the native American culture would lure their young people away lol

Can’t disagree with this.

[Captain Dob Van Dwi]

Quote Captain: I should probably stop..

Don’t!

Alright. Below is a brief opinion of mine.


On the Organization of the People's Armed Forces:

“The essential point of the system was social equality between officers and men. Everyone from general to private drew the same pay, ate the same food, wore the same clothes, and mingled on terms of complete equality. If you wanted to slap the general commanding the division on the back and ask him for a cigarette, you could do so, and no one thought it curious. In theory at any rate each militia was a democracy and not a hierarchy. It was understood that orders had to be obeyed, but it was also understood that when you gave an order you gave it as comrade to comrade and not as superior to inferior. There were officers and N.C.O.S. but there was no military rank in the ordinary sense; no titles, no badges, no heel-clicking and saluting. They had attempted to produce within the militias a sort of temporary working model of the classless society. Of course there was no perfect equality, but there was a nearer approach to it than I had ever seen or than I would have thought conceivable in time of war.”
― George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia

On this topic, we should thank Mr Orwell (real name Eric Blair) were he still with us. For not only did he write about the topic, but he Lived through it! Yes the Spanish Civil War was one of extremes and polar opposites, most notable among which (on the Republican side anyway) was the difference between the Spanish republic's Popular Army & the P.O.U.M & C.N.T/F.A.I's Militias.

On the one hand, one might that that the Militias were little more than a half measure, but with out them the war in the north would have been lost almost immediately. One might also think that the Popular Army were little more then bullies (which is true) and therefore should have been abolished. This is erroneous.

Why?

Simple. To have one exist with out the other is foolish. The Army is by it's very nature professional, whereas a Militia is not, it is part time. To assume that an army can exist without a militia is not unprecedented, but one must also remember that an army, even a people's army, can go rogue. Thus, a militia must exist to check the army's power.

One might say that a People's Militia could exist on it's own. You would be correct. However one must also consider the fact that then it would be in the same situation as a stand a alone army. Unless one dose with the militia that one cannot with an army. Decentralize. I.e, spread power throughout the various regiments and mustering so as not to have a center HQ officer that makes every decision, but rather in the hands of a council. But that raises further questions of who commands what and who fights when and the like.

One may even possess a Militia, and a divided army, that is, an Overseas Force & an Home Guard.

How big or how small would obviously depend on circumstance.

But all of that is moot unless we don't forget what Orwell observed.

Yes, whether an army (unified or divided) or militia or both, equality must be the watch word of any people's armed force. Otherwise the cause that this very force supposedly fights for will be for not. It would be mired in unmitigated foolishness & hypocrisy if it did not strive to prove itself better than the armies of Capitalist nations who are ultimately based & commanded on fear, rather than comradeship & respect.     

   

[Captain Dob Van Dwi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byeMLdt2r-I

Can't help but love this thing.

[phillyt]

The worst of two worlds!  A super heavy rifle in a sort of sub par caliber made by a notoriously bad manufacturer (other than a handful of their AK).

[Captain Dob Van Dwi]

The Type 81s tgat are coming in to canada are not to bad from what I undrrstand. Of course the Type 56 Carbines (SKS) are pretty good.

[Artobans Ghost]

Those weapon vids are great fun.
Your outlook on the militia and army is good. I think if everyone was likeminded in purpose it could be  a force worth fighting for.

[phillyt]

The Type 81s tgat are coming in to canada are not to bad from what I undrrstand. Of course the Type 56 Carbines (SKS) are pretty good.

Type 81 are interesting.  Their Type 56 are great as are the Mak90.

But other than those designs, the Norinco rifles can be absolute dumpster fires!

[phillyt]

My finished short barreled AK.  Lots of fine but that's $2400 in total money sitting there.  Much more than I ever planned.

[Captain Dob Van Dwi]

Nice! Though that price is a little high. Although, fully modding a VZ 58 come out to about the same price.

Also, heres a fun fact, The PLA adopted the Type 81 after a war with Vietnam.