home

Author Topic: When Warhammer Was Radical  (Read 697 times)

Offline Captain Dob Van Dwi

  • Members
  • Posts: 1803
  • Just jiven'
When Warhammer Was Radical
« on: April 26, 2023, 03:52:34 AM »
A truly great article obout what made early Warhammer Fantasy different (and imo better) than later editions. Thankfully GW appears to be doing an about face, and returning to this style of lore/art/gaming. Even if it is just a cynical cash grab.

https://wearethemutants.com/2019/01/14/when-warhammer-was-radical-the-egalitarian-origins-of-the-fantasy-battle-game/

I choose too keep "Old Warhammer" alive with my blood sweat and tears.

It's bad that warhammer might die but it would be a tragedy if it stays dead!

Offline Rowsdower

  • Members
  • Posts: 2057
  • Is there beer on the sun?
    • Jesse Cowled
Re: When Warhammer Was Radical
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2023, 04:45:00 AM »
'Mag-ies' death banner. Totally not a reference to a certain former lady prime minister.
I miss that tongue in cheek humour

Offline GamesPoet

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 23619
  • Happy Spring! : )
Re: When Warhammer Was Radical
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2023, 09:16:52 AM »
That was worth reading.

It was interesting that below the article that even Rick Priestly commented on it.

And the arguing over the possible political undertones in the comments misses the points of humor provided from the original cast of inventors.

I recall going into hobby stores in my younger years, when GW was just starting out, and reading the product as if it was an alternative to D&D.  At the time it seemed just as wacky and off the wall, in ways humorous, and not fully appreciated.  My how age changes one's perspectives ... lol.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline KTG17

  • Members
  • Posts: 1980
Re: When Warhammer Was Radical
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2023, 12:41:52 PM »
omg. I started this and couldnt finish it.

Quote
Warhammer is held up by the far-right as a shining example of a fictional property that enshrines the authoritarian ideal of “might makes right” and encapsulates an exclusionary worldview that seeks to justify intolerance and violence against the Other while enforcing strict social hierarchy, making mockery of egalitarian values and ideas of social progress.

Quote
The dominant female image in fantasy gaming in the 1980s, as now, tended towards the overtly sexualized. Countless magazines, such as TSRs Dragon and Games Workshop’s White Dwarf, portrayed women as sexy warriors in chainmail bikinis, or as passive victims in desperate need of rescuing by some grunting, mighty-thewed barbarian...

The text in Forces of Fantasy makes it explicit: “Dark Elf soldiery is as likely to be female as male; Elf maidens are as cruel and murderous as their menfolk.” This aspect of gender equality, in both text and image, radically subverts established conventions of the fantasy genre. While there are certainly examples of cheesecake or pin-up art, these tend to be non-warrior types such as magic-users. In the early Warhammer oeuvre, the transformation of the Dark Elf from sexy dominatrix to serious combatant is a departure that establishes a tone of equality in terms of representation and ability.

Quote
Warhammer does use the Slann to sublimate the identity of historical South American peoples. On the surface this is inherently problematic. Replacing real historical peoples with monsters while keeping the material trappings, costume, armor design, and so on echoes the worst aspects of dehumanizing propaganda.

Quote
However, while the adventurers do provide diverse representation of gender, class, sexuality, and mental and physical ability, there are no characters that are visually identifiable as non-European.

Jesus christ.

New flash: Fantasy games were pretty much invented by male dorks who didn't get a lot of attention from chics, and sex sells, so why not add some scantily clad women in the art to entice guys to play the game and get all excited. Holy crap we sexualized women, how could we have done such a thing. Thank god for changing values so now that we show the proper respect for all parties, and are more diversified than the original group of players who played these games. My god, this just makes me want to take my LOTR extended edition movies and burn them in some hyped up ceremony. Oh how GW was so ahead of the times. Well, except they weren't. I don't think I have ever seen a female model of any kind for the Empire.

Anyways, I can't for the life of me understand why an article like this is written. Is it a jab at the guys who were fans of the old stuff? Is it a praise of progressive progress? It's now okay to like Warhammer??? Maybe I am reading into it too much, but its a fucking game. Its all based on early anglo-saxon mythology and damn those modern day anglos for not being diverse enough!

Who has a problem with chics in bikins? Women? Religious conservatives? Should we go after comic books too? Have you seen how those women dress? Its even more ridiculous. But guess what? Male dorks are the ones buying those too. Its all part of a fantasy. Sex sells. So what. It sells cars, cosmetics, clothes, and a shit load of other things too.

I really hope I get to see an article where someone complains that TOW doesn't go far enough if there are no transgender models released for it.  :icon_rolleyes:
« Last Edit: April 26, 2023, 12:50:26 PM by KTG17 »

Offline GamesPoet

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 23619
  • Happy Spring! : )
Re: When Warhammer Was Radical
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2023, 01:56:47 PM »
Not sure Jesus has much to do with it.

It was written as a perspective on what happened at the time.  It isn't a jab at anybody, unless it is interpreted that way. This isn't about progressive anything nor whether or not to like Warhammer.  I found the article to be a bit of commentary on what happened, and not bikinis, women, religious conservatives, comic books, nor sex.

Yep, reading too much into it is one way to put it.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Rowsdower

  • Members
  • Posts: 2057
  • Is there beer on the sun?
    • Jesse Cowled
Re: When Warhammer Was Radical
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2023, 02:10:42 PM »
About 20 years ago, i knew a teenage girl who wanted to get into wargaming and R.P.G's. She didn't find the abundance of overly sexualised females offensive. But to tell you the truth i think the reason she wanted to collect Bretonnians was because she fancied Hornblower who was in that 200X King Arthur movie.

Offline GamesPoet

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 23619
  • Happy Spring! : )
Re: When Warhammer Was Radical
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2023, 02:49:08 PM »
 :icon_lol:  Imagine that, a female being attracted to a man.  And here I only thought that happened in reverse, man being attracted to woman no less.  That doesn't take anything away from those who are attracted to others either.

Warhammer was never about anything other than fantasy taken from various inspirations, and applied to one's creativity, even in a humorous way.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra