Topic: OPTIONS Empire: Rare

[mwalsh867]

I'm posting my WIP Empire list I've been playtesting for a few months.  The emphasis is to have lots of options.  There's some more of my thoughts in the Core (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=29816.0) post.  Character (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=29897.msg420890#msg420890) and Special(http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=29838.0) posts are also up.

Not too many changes in Rares ... if someone has a hack for the old options on the new Stank, I'd be happy to 'borrow' it. 

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FLAGELLANTS   10 Points/model
Profile: As Empire army book, +1 T.
Unit Size: 10-30.
Equipment: Hand weapon.
Options: Flails +1, light armor +1.
Command: Prophet of Doom +10, musician +5, and/or standard bearer +10.
Special Rules: Crazed, Martyr.

HELBLASTER   160 Points/model
Profile: As Empire book.
Number of Crew: 3
Equipment: Hand weapon.
Options: Up to two additional Crewmen +5 points each.
Special Rules: Helblasteter (as modified here:http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=29895.0), War Machine.

HELSTORM   115 Points/model
Profile: As Empire book.
Number of Crew: 3
Equipment: Hand weapon.
Options: Up to two additional Crewmen +5 points each.
Special Rules: Helstorm, War Machine.

0-1 STEAM TANK   300 points/model
Profile: As Empire book.
Number of Crew: 3 and Master Engineer.
Equipment: The Master Engineer has a repeater pistol that he may fire in the shooting phase if the steam tank is not in close combat.
Special Rules: As Empire book.

Thanks!
-Matt

[Perforated]

Not too many changes in Rares ... if someone has a hack for the old options on the new Stank, I'd be happy to 'borrow' it. 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

FLAGELLANTS   10 Points/model
Profile: As Empire army book, +1 T.
Unit Size: 10-30.
Equipment: Hand weapon.
Options: Flails +1, light armor +1.
Command: Prophet of Doom +10, musician +5, and/or standard bearer +10.
Special Rules: Crazed, Martyr.

Why would you even consider giving them the options for a full command group? They are crazed beyond any such considerations. Same for the light armour, pretty much a worthless option.

What I do like is the reverting to the old toughness stat, IMO flagellants should be 11 points with T4, flails, crazed and martyr rules.

HELBLASTER   160 Points/model
Profile: As Empire book.
Number of Crew: 3
Equipment: Hand weapon.
Options: Up to two additional Crewmen +5 points each.
Special Rules: Helblasteter (as modified here:http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=29895.0), War Machine.

This is a bit problematic, I for one love the idea but I'm sure doing this change would cause a whine-fest of epic proportions. What would be nice however is to allow the engineer to re-roll ONE of the artillery dice as well as providing superior BS.

Or maybe, make the helblaster ignore to hit penalties, seeing as it is pretty much a huge shotgun.

STEAM TANK   300 points/model
Profile: As Empire book.
Number of Crew: 3 and Master Engineer.
Equipment: The Master Engineer has a repeater pistol that he may fire in the shooting phase if the steam tank is not in close combat.
Special Rules: As Empire book.

Well, the Steam Tank need to see a change, considering it sucks b***s as it is now, my proposal is to do the following:

-------------------------------------------------------------
"Profile: As Empire book.
Number of Crew: 3 and Master Engineer.
Equipment: The Master Engineer has a repeater pistol that he may fire in the shooting phase if the steam tank is not in close combat."

Special Rules:

Steam points
The steam tank generates 1 steam point for every two wounds it has remaining up to a maximum of 4. The engineer may attempt to "super-charge" the boiler each turn. Roll a dice and subtract the number of wounds suffered by the steam tank:

1	Something bad has happened, the steam tank gains no extra steam point but loses one instead.
2+	The engineer and his crew manages to push the boiler to it's limits, add one extra steam point.

Steam cannon
Profile: same as current.
Rules: If the steam cannon suffers a misfire, roll on the misfire chart:

1	The steam cannon suffers a catastrophic malfunction, the cannon cannot be used for the remainder of the battle and the steam tank suffers 1D3 wounds with no save of any kind allowed.
2-3	The cannonball gets stuck in the barrel or the cannon looses pressure. Regardless of the error the cannon does not fire this turn and the crew must spend the next round fixing it. The cannon may not fire next turn.
4-6	There's a hiss and a release of steam, and the ball rolls out of the barrel falling harmlessly to the ground in front of the steam tank. No shot is fired this turn.

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So with these rules the steam tank would be a bit safer to use and not decline horribly once it suffers a wound or two (you don't see a dragon perform any worse even though it's down to 1 wound) but it will deteriorate as it suffers damage.

The costing should be about the same, though I would be happy to see some options for the tank, for example:

basic cost: 250points
equipment/weapons: none

+25 Steam cannon
+25 Steam gun
+35 Steam Helblaster

and so on...

[mwalsh867]

Why would you even consider giving them the options for a full command group? They are crazed beyond any such considerations. Same for the light armour, pretty much a worthless option.

What I do like is the reverting to the old toughness stat, IMO flagellants should be 11 points with T4, flails, crazed and martyr rules.

As I've mentioned before, the point of some of these options is to customize, characterize, and/or uber-l33t the unit.  Maybe a unit of state troops has recently been in battle with chaos and have, to the man, given in to the liturgy of the end-times.  Such a group would wield their broken halberd shafts and wear the tattered remnants of their once-proud uniforms, complete with armor.

Again, the option is not holding a gun on you.  It just might be a fun, characterful thing someone might like.  I see a lot of excellent models converted to be one thing or another, and proxied as something else.  I feel this list would help reduce proxy-ing, which I personally have had a hard time with in the past.

And yes, with flails, they would be 11 points.

This is a bit problematic, I for one love the idea but I'm sure doing this change would cause a whine-fest of epic proportions.

The hell with 'em.  We've been playing helblaster this way since about 20 minutes after the current army book came out, though the points have fluctuated (started at about 190, then came down).  You pay a lot, give up a rare, and get a fantastic area denial machine that takes about 2 seconds for decent machine hunters to destroy.

If the Bret RAF lives, so must the imperial flak gun.

Well, the Steam Tank need to see a change, considering it sucks b***s as it is now, my proposal is to do the following:

-------------------------------------------------------------
"Profile: As Empire book.
Number of Crew: 3 and Master Engineer.
Equipment: The Master Engineer has a repeater pistol that he may fire in the shooting phase if the steam tank is not in close combat."

Special Rules:

Steam points
The steam tank generates 1 steam point for every two wounds it has remaining up to a maximum of 4. The engineer may attempt to "super-charge" the boiler each turn. Roll a dice and subtract the number of wounds suffered by the steam tank:

1	Something bad has happened, the steam tank gains no extra steam point but loses one instead.
2+	The engineer and his crew manages to push the boiler to it's limits, add one extra steam point.

Steam cannon
Profile: same as current.
Rules: If the steam cannon suffers a misfire, roll on the misfire chart:

1	The steam cannon suffers a catastrophic malfunction, the cannon cannot be used for the remainder of the battle and the steam tank suffers 1D3 wounds with no save of any kind allowed.
2-3	The cannonball gets stuck in the barrel or the cannon looses pressure. Regardless of the error the cannon does not fire this turn and the crew must spend the next round fixing it. The cannon may not fire next turn.
4-6	There's a hiss and a release of steam, and the ball rolls out of the barrel falling harmlessly to the ground in front of the steam tank. No shot is fired this turn.

-------------------------------------------------------------

So with these rules the steam tank would be a bit safer to use and not decline horribly once it suffers a wound or two (you don't see a dragon perform any worse even though it's down to 1 wound) but it will deteriorate as it suffers damage.

The costing should be about the same, though I would be happy to see some options for the tank, for example:

basic cost: 250points
equipment/weapons: none

+25 Steam cannon
+25 Steam gun
+35 Steam Helblaster

and so on...

I really like your suggestions for steam tank mechanics.  To be honest, I've only ever used it as a chariot/ram, so it usually works nicely until a character pops it.  I mentioned the idea of a hack for the old options, which worked much like you've outlined, a base "ram" tank with optional guns or engineers or whatever.  I think someone posted something about that some time ago using the new army books' steam tank as a base.

Also, looks like I forgot to mentions it in the first post, but the steam tank ought to be 0-1 in non-Apocalypse games.

Thanks for reading and commenting.
-Matt