Topic: General of the Empire and Discipline

[cisse]

He's an excellent choice already.

Well, he's not. Compared to the other Empire lords, he doesn't add anything really useful to the army except LD (and the others do that too). Okay he's cheaper, but that doesn't cut it in this case. We won't even start to compare him to other armies' lords...

He doesn't need a more powerful statline or something like that, just some characterful rules to make him that little more useful. A slightly extended LD range perhaps, or the ability to reroll panic tests when in range.

Also, they could make some "disciplines" that he could take, like vampire powers and bretonnian virtues. They'd help out the army as a whole though, not the general himself. Perhaps the ability to relocate a single unit after deployment, or (again) extended LD range, or... You get the drift. Given a correct point cost, these "disciplines" could really make the ordinary general more useful.

[Derek Contyre]

About this talk of comparing to the merc general and other human represented hordes(skaven is in this category as they have similiar statlines to humans, bretts are human enough said) What Ganymede is trying to say is that other human lords have better fighting abilities then our empire general and are more cost effective.
Hell a skaven lord can give everyone within 12 of him ld10! while we have to subsist on ld 9. I find that a little sucky.

Maybe have our general confer a ld bonus to the whole army. instead of 18 range make every unit have ld 9 as long as the general is on the field or has a unique ability or such. Like the brettonian virtue's. Or if a GoTE is your leader then all state troops get his leadership? That would be better as it justifies taking heaps of core troops for empire.

Everyone just remember that whatever GW come up with they will always try to make the next army relevant to sales. Like they did with the new GS. ten dudes? $70. Rip . . . IMHO its a rip anyway. ten plastic dudes. . . 70 dollars is too much. I dont care how much extra components they come with.

They will always try to balance the army with what will sell more. Not how effective our excellent imperials are at winning or not.

[cisse]

Hell a skaven lord can give everyone within 12 of him ld10! while we have to subsist on ld 9. I find that a little sucky.

Don't even get me started on the fact that skaven, supposedly born cowards, have higher LD than our -trained- soldiers. I could rant a full page on that subject.

[Chr1s-Cross]

I definitely agree on the "disipline" part - I think Ld 7 means regular Empire troops literally have just about half a chance of passing leadership tests! And even when playing with Karl Franz, a lot of my soldiers have fled and caused whole chains of panic to my other units while KF is on the other side of the battlefield.

I really wish empire troops at least had Ld 8 - one time I fled with pistoliers who I had deliberately placed in charge range of the enemy, only to have the rest of my army follow suit after the pistoliers ran through one unit, so I really think the Ld 7 should be changed.

Okay, rant over...

[Derek Contyre]

I vote if you take a GoTE then everything in your army becomes base LD 9.

[commandant]

I have a crazy idea.   Make the GOTE give 3d6-2 leadership over a range of 5d6-2 inches.   This means that your GOTE can offer anything from 1-16 leadership with the average being about nine I think over a range of everything from 3 - 30 inches.   I think this would represent the fact that some generals are pampered idiots, some are born commanders and some are promoted from the ranks for grabbing some noble's son's arse and saving it and have no idea how to lead men.   Some more fixed benefit would be needed of course.

Oh and how about making the TGM and the Arch Lector leadership 8

[Derek Contyre]

No to the templar and arch lector being leadership 8.

TGM are supposed to be battle hardened leaders(although in the fluff it says that about GoTE  ) and arch lectors are more inspiring then a GoTE depending on who you ask.  Dont make other choices less effective to make our beloved general more viable

[Inarticulate]

I agree with Derek. Ld 9 for the entire army while he's alive and on the table.

Don't do anything with his stats though, he's not a battle-hardened warrior, just an Imperial Noble, born to privelage, not dedicated to fighting like Bretonnians and not spent his life warring for a living like the Merc General

[Perius]

Ganymede - Wouldn't it be more foward thinking to decide the stats and abilties of the General by his background, rather than by comparing him to 6th edition warrior leaders from other armies?

[der Hurenwiebel]

Commandant: great idea for a campaign I don't think it will fly in an army book though.

[Derek Contyre]

In the new fluff regarding GoTE they can have risen through the ranks as a soldier in the halberdiers to get to that position.

So you could essentially have a general who has dedicated his life to war.

But then they are said to wield their armies as effortlessly as a blade.

That line calls for special rules

[T0m]

Well, 'The General' is a very broad term so why not have, say, provincial special rules options or just different kinds of generals? The Noble (not necessarily an Elector Count as base, option to use a Runefang obviously makes a Noble an EC), The Master Strategist (some deployment or movement special rules, not a generic fighter-lord so no stat-increase), and The Templar Grand Master (stat-increase and other Knightly whatnot, THE fighter general). So we have a noble morale-booster, the masterful strategist and tactician, and finally the fighter.

Imperial edit: The Grand Master could also be dubbed 'The Knight' or such, or even 'The Warrior'. This way you could make your own heroic fighters without making them Grand Masters.

Another Imperial editation of intellectual excellence: the province where the General hails from could affect army composition, not the General himself. By having both of these options we'd be on par with Wood Elven Kindreds, Chaos god marks and whatnot, Vampire Bloodlines (what ever they're called nowadays), Bretonnian Virtues, etc. Fluff-wise it's true the Empire boasts colourful armies led by colourful and able individuals and that the provinces and their people vary from area to area. From the snobbish noble of Reikland to the master gunner of Nuln and the Ulric-sworn hammer hero of Middenheim... Might just make house rules for these.

[Chr1s-Cross]

Maybe if you choose a general of the empire to lead your army, you get to choose a special strategy before battle (i.e. like building a trench for handgunners to shoot out of, or forcing the enemy to deploy all of his units before yours, etc), for added points cost, depending on how good the strategy is. I think that would be good, because it wouldn't beef him up, or add to his points cost, just give you a tactical advantage even though it takes up points!

I also think it would suit an empire general too, because the empire seems to have mainly average troops, and is supposed to rely on ingenious weapons and tactics to win the day. I guess Karl Franz could be allowed to use a rule like that as well, seeing as he is an empire general, only better.

[pelcu]

I think that Generals should give special ability like free Turn and Hold as reaction for opponents charge or immune to panic for his unit.
   Empire has professional soldiers not peasants (like Bretonians) General or Capitan as Unit commander should give something really useful..

[DanteValentine]

I think what people are forgetting here is that while the Empire wins through well placed tactics and clever solution, their leadership is meant to represent an average human.

Skaven (well, lets not talk about that utterly crazy piece of rule writing!)

Elves, alive for hundreds of years and achieving tactical superioirty to most races do and SHOULD have a LD of 10

Dwarves, more willing to die than retreat most of the time have a naturally high leadership.

If GW were to start giving everyone high leaderships or making rules so that General's of the Empire etc make all troops have leadership of 9 while on the table, it would undermine armies whose troops should have high leadership to represent increased levels of discipline, training or pure suicidal bravery.

Bear in mind as well, that Armies like Brettonia only have access to LD 9 Generals (including the King!). I dont see why Empire should really be any different?

Again, just my opinion but i think things have got to be viewed in a wider context.

Regards

D