Topic: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax

[Windelov]

Blue; Lets go for the challenge!

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[SevenSins]

damned if I know, what the heck lets challenge and hope he is ballsy enough to take it with the Dreadlord (goad him HG!)

[Noght]

Ok, challenge with the Reiksguard Champion.  No matter who accepts we move to the end of the line, NOT to a second rank, no way Jose.

Dreadlord has to accept with something otherwise he loses the DL or BSB attacks, so he should accept with the Champion.

THEN....

ASF spears go first.  which means he has two or one (makeway with BSB) attacking the IC Knights.  The attacks at the Reiksguard are lost due to the challenge with the Champion.

Then DL and maybe BSB go.  The surviving IC Knights and a single Reiksguard attack (assuming the Reik Champ dies).

The challenge would be fought before the ASF spearmen go. Whoops, sorry it looks like your THEN... comment meant the challenge was fought first.  I still think our best move is to challenge with the Reik champ.

Sorry, should have been clearer.  You still fight everything in Initiative order, even challenges.  So in this case his ASF bites him in the butt.  Because accepting with BSB or Lord means those attacks will take place after ASF.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

I may be misunderstanding the DL making way to the knights but doesn't the rule state on pg100 that the character has to be unengaged in HtH to make way through the ranks?  My interpretation of the rule states that the DL is going to be stuck fighting the knights with Luthor Huss, the BSB and the wizard.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

Cursain-  when they refer to the Dreadlord fighting the Reiksguard, it is if he accepts a challenge from the Reiksguard champ.  Both models would be moved into base contact with each other.

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Okay, I am going to go page by page through this to count the "votes" for what you are going to do.  Lots of good posts, and the winning course of action is not readily apparent, like it sometimes is.   Stay tuned.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

***Update***

Combat Versus Team Blue

Blue has-  Savage Beasts on the TGM, who also suffers from x2 Plague of Rust.
Purple has-  Enchanted Blades, Glittering Robes on the Warriors, and suffers from a Curse of Anheir.

Warriors make their Fear test.

The TGM issues a challenge.  The Metal Sorc accepts.  The Dreadlord makes way to the STank.

I6 TGM  7 attacks,  6 hits.  Metal Sorc dies, 3 points of Overkill.

I5 Warriors on the Knights-  no effect.

I3     Knights on the Warriors- 3 attacks, 2 hit, 2 wound.  2 Warriors die.
I3     Horses-  no effect.
I3     Eng Comm-  1 hit, 1 wound, no save.  1 Warrior dies.
I3     Steam Gun on the Warriors-  7 hits, 2 wounds, 1 save, 1 Warrior dies. 
ASL Dreadlord.  4 attacks on the STank.  4 attacks, 4 hits, 4 unsaved wounds which multiply into 11!  STank dies.  Holy shit!  Did I just witness that?


Empire:            7 wounds.  Charge.  Rear.             
Dark Elves:      10 wounds.  Standard.   

Empire loses by 1.  TGM makes the Break test.  The Knights fail.  They turn tail and run 5” away.

Here is how the combat looks at the end:

In the Reiksguard versus the Executioner combat:

I4     Huss- 2 attacks, 2 wounds, no saves.  2 Execs die.
I3     Reiksguard-  9 attacks, 8 hits, 7 wounds.  7 Execs die.
I3     Horses-  5 attacks, 5 hits, 3 wounds, no saves.  3 Execs die.
ASL Executioners versus Huss- 2 hits, 2 wounds, 1 Ward Save. Huss takes a wound.
        Executioners versus Reiksguard-  5 attacks, 5 hits, 5 wounds, 3 saves.  2 Reiksguard die.   

Dark Elves lose by a lot, but have exactly 5 in the back rank so are Steadfast.  Make the Break and the combat reform tests to face the Reiksguard.


Combat Versus Team Green


The Reiksguard Champ issues a challenge.  The Dreadlord accepts.  Both move to get into base contact with each other.  The BSB makes way to the Reiksguard. 

Reiksguard have 2 Plague of Rust.
Dark Elves have Enchanted Blades.

ASF  Warriors on Huss-  2 hits, 2 wounds, no saves.  Huss dies. 
         Warriors on the ICK-  1 hit, 1 wound, no save.  1 ICK dies. 
I7      Dreadlord in the challenge- 4 attacks, 4 hits, 3 wounds.  Wounds multiply into 7 wounds.  Reik Champ dies and DE gets 5 wounds on the Overkill.
I7      DE BSB on the Reik.  3 attacks, 3 hits, 3 wounds, no saves.  3 Reiks die.
I5      Emp BSB on the Warriors.  3 attacks, 2 hits, 2 wounds.  2 Warriors die.
I3      Reiksguard on the DE BSB.  1 hit, 1 wound, no save.  BSB dies.   
I3      ICK on the Warriors-  5 attacks, 4 hits, 4 wounds.  4 Warriors die.         
         Horses.  No effect.

Empire-         7 wounds.  Charge.  Flank.  1 Rank.  Standard.  Battle Standard.
Dark Elves-   7 wounds.  5 Overkill.  Flank. 

Empire lost by 1.  Both units of Knights fail their first roll but make it on the re-roll.

Here is how it looks at the end:

End of Turn 4

Here is what the battlefields look like:

That was insane.  Dreadlord is not going down without a fight, wielding his Executioner’s Axe with deadly purpose….but I think Empire is turning the tide in the final moments.

Team Blue-  up by 64 VPs.
Team Green-  up by 425 VPs.

Stay tuned while Dreadlord makes his last stand.

 
HHG

[Noght]

I think you messed that up.  Going out to Dinner and will look at it later.

[zakalwe]

Flukey sods killed huss

still looks good, next turn we don't challenge and refuse with bsb if dreadlord does., then hopefully kill metal sorc.

[zifnab0]

Elf warriors: 3+ to hit, 5+ to wound, Huss gets a 3+ armor and 4+ ward.  And all it took was 2 attacks to kill him.

That's absurd.  We're not going to lose this game from bad strategy, we're going to lose by horrible luck.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

Elf warriors: 3+ to hit, 5+ to wound, Huss gets a 3+ armor and 4+ ward.  And all it took was 2 attacks to kill him.

That's absurd.  We're not going to lose this game from bad strategy, we're going to lose by horrible luck.

His AS is modified to 5+ with Rust and AP...but yes, I do fell bad about my poor dice rolling for you.  I rolled a 3 and 1 with my normally lucky Ward Save dice.

[librisrouge]

I for one would hear by refuse to play HHG in real life unless I can provide him the dice...he isn't allowed to come within one foot of my own dice as well.

I've been following that thread but...DAAAAAAMMMMN! Steam Tank AND Luthor. Wow.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

I for one would hear by refuse to play HHG in real life unless I can provide him the dice...he isn't allowed to come within one foot of my own dice as well.

I've been following that thread but...DAAAAAAMMMMN! Steam Tank AND Luthor. Wow.

Honestly I think it comes down to dice.

The dice I use for Dreadlord are a blood red set that are really streaky.  They usually are killer hot, but in some games go cold.  In this game, they were rolling 5s and 6s like they were cool.

I used two sets of dice for Empire-  steel blue and speckled white.  They are my normal Empire dice-  they are my "old-faithfuls."  I get crappy rolls at times, but somehow they always seem to pull games out in the end.

I was hoping the TDG would be decided by skill, not luck, in the final hour.  This one is still up in the air. 

One thing we can never forget though-  luck is a part of the game and can bite us no matter how badass we are.

 
HHG

[Noght]

One of the rules guys need to check, Multi-wound weapons vs single wound models, even in a challenge with overkill.

Feels wonky to me....

[Holy Hand Grenade]

One of the rules guys need to check, Multi-wound weapons vs single wound models, even in a challenge with overkill.

Feels wonky to me....

I actually pulled out the books and looked at it for awhile when it came up.  Normally extra wounds or multiple wounds wouldn't matter...but in the case of a challenge it comes into play.

The way I saw it-  you count all the original wounds caused, regardless of how many the model has.  Since he is doing "overkill" he really slices and dices up the poor champ because each unsaved wound gets multiplied. 

Seeing their poor champ get completely obliterated and turned into red mist would put the fear into any troop.

Of course, part of this TDG is to learn, so if anyone has a comment on this ruling, feel free to post.  For now, moving forward.

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The final post is almost ready.  I will have it up in a few minutes.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

Dreadlord’s Last Turn

Versus Team Blue

Movement

Not much to move.  The Shades slide up on the hill to get one more shot at the cannon. 

Versus Team Green

Movement

Nothing to move.

Magic versus Team Green

The Comet finally goes off.  It obliterates everything within 8”  Luckily, no forces are in the area.  Unluckily, the Elector Count is not going to be too happy that the Arcane Ruins are really ruined now…

Dreadlord rolls a 3 and 2 for Winds of Magic.  No channeled dice. 

Dreadlord rolls a 1 die Powers of Darkness and gets a 5+4=9.  Empire uses its 2 DD on it and gets 6+4=10.  Dispelled.

Dreadlord uses his last 2 PD on Glittering Robe.  Goes off on a 5+4=9.


Shooting Versus Team Blue

The Shades fire 18 shots, 8 hits, 1 wound.  The Great Cannon finally dies.


Combat Versus Team Blue

Blue has-  Savage Beasts on the TGM, who also suffers from x2 Plague of Rust.
Purple has suffers from a Curse of Anheir.

The TGM issues a challenge.  The Dreadlord denies the challenge.

I6 TGM  7 attacks,  4 hits.  The last 4 Warriors die.

Only the TGM and Dreadlord remain.

Empire:            4 wounds.               
Dark Elves:      Nothing.   

DE lose by 4.  Dreadlord finally fails a Break test on a 7.  He runs a wimpy 4” inches and the TGM catches him on a 6.  The Dreadlord is dead!!!   


In the Reiksguard versus the Executioner combat:

Huss uses his special ability and gets +1WS,S,T, A.

I4     Huss- 3 attacks, 2 hits, 2 wounds, no saves.  2 Execs die.
I3     Reiksguard-  7 attacks, 4 hits, 4 wounds, 1 save.  3 Execs die.
I3     Horses-  5 attacks, 3 hits, 2 wounds, 1 save.  1 Execs die.
ASL Executioners versus Huss- 2 hits, 1 wound, 1 Ward Save.
        Executioners versus Reiksguard-  4 attacks, 2 hits, 2 wounds, 1 save.  1 Reiksguard die.   

Empire-       6 wounds.  Standard.
Dark Elves  1 wound.

DE lost by 6.  Executioners fail their Break Test.  They run 8” and the Reiksguard run them down on a 10.  The Executioners are destroyed!


Combat Versus Team Green


Dreadlord issues a challenge.  The Empire refuses, and Dreadlord sends the Captain BSB to the rear.

Reiksguard have 2 Plague of Rust, ICK has 1.
Dark Elves have Glittering Robe.

I5      Warrior Champ on the Reik.  2 attacks, 1 hit, no wound.
I5      Metal Mage on the ICK.  1 attack, 1 hit, saved.
I3      Reiksguard on the Warrior Champ.  1 hit, 1 wound, no save.  Champ dies.
I3      ICK on the Metal Sorc-  4 attacks, 3 hits, 3 wounds.  Metal Sorc dies.         
         Horses.  No effect.
ASL  Dreadlord on the Reiksguard.  4 attacks, 2 hits, 2 wounds.  Reiksguard dies.

Empire-         4 wounds.  Flank.  1 Rank.  Standard.  Battle Standard.
Dark Elves-   1 wound. 

Dark Elves lose by 7.  Dreadlord fails his Break test and run 10”  The Knights ride hard and catch him on boxcars.

Team Green cleared the field of bad guys!   



End of Turn

Here is what the battlefields look like:

Final Wrap Up

Well, that wraps it up.  Great stuff in the end!

I checked the math twice.  Hopefully I didn’t screw anything up.


Blue points gained

2308 in models
200 Gen, BSB
25 Exec Std
25 Warrior Std
100 Scenario
--------------------------
2658 Total


Blue Points Lost:
 
1391 in models
100 BSB
25 ICK Std
--------------------------
1516 Total


Therefore, Blue beat Dreadlord by 1142 VPs

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Green points gained:
2500 for Army
200 for Gen, BSB
25 Warrior Std
25 Exec Std
------------------------
2750 total

Green points lost:
1371 in models
100 for Gen
25 Reik Std
------------------------
1496 Total

Therefore, Team Green beat Dreadlord by 1254 VPs.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Special congrats go out to Team Green.  They won the TDG 2.0 challenge by a mere 112 VPs!


I for one had a great time with this TDG.  At this point I am glad it is over because it took a lot of work!

I know that I learned a lot.  We will get into after action comments and lessons learned in a little bit.

However, for now, let’s just savor the victories.   Post your thoughts on the TDG, your favorite moments, and how you feel at the moment!

Also-  a shout out for Dreadlord for playing as our opponent.  He was a true gentlemen during all this.  And, like you, was very patient with me and the process.

 
HHG

[Fandir Nightshade]

Fantastic job done by everyone! Thanks guys and especially to you holy hand grenade as it is obvious that it was extremely lots of work. Congrats to team Green well played.. and congrats go dreadlord for being a very tough nut to crack.

[Windelov]

Great game! Congrats to both teams, and I applaud you HHG for during such at great job in making all this possible.

***Update***

Combat Versus Team Blue

Blue has-  Savage Beasts on the TGM, who also suffers from x2 Plague of Rust.
Purple has-  Enchanted Blades, Glittering Robes on the Warriors, and suffers from a Curse of Anheir.

Warriors make their Fear test.

The TGM issues a challenge.  The Metal Sorc accepts.  The Dreadlord makes way to the STank.

I6 TGM  7 attacks,  6 hits.  Metal Sorc dies, 3 points of Overkill.

I5 Warriors on the Knights-  no effect.

I3     Knights on the Warriors- 3 attacks, 2 hit, 2 wound.  2 Warriors die.
I3     Horses-  no effect.
I3     Eng Comm-  1 hit, 1 wound, no save.  1 Warrior dies.
I3     Steam Gun on the Warriors-  7 hits, 2 wounds, 1 save, 1 Warrior dies. 
ASL Dreadlord.  4 attacks on the STank.  4 attacks, 4 hits, 4 unsaved wounds which multiply into 11!  STank dies.  Holy shit!  Did I just witness that?


Empire:            7 wounds.  Charge.  Rear.             
Dark Elves:      10 wounds.  Standard.   

Empire loses by 1.  TGM makes the Break test.  The Knights fail.  They turn tail and run 5” away.

Here is how the combat looks at the end:
HHG[/size]

Hi hhg, doesn't matter much now, but that combat resolution might be a bit off, as the overkill bonus wasnt counted in. I think we should have won by 2.

Cheers!

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[Holy Hand Grenade]

Hi hhg, doesn't matter much now, but that combat resolution might be a bit off, as the overkill bonus wasnt counted in. I think we should have won by 2.

Damn.  I tried my best to avoid mistakes but when you are doing it via pencil and paper little things are easy to miss (in that case it was 3 wounds and 3 overkill and I forgot one of the 3s...).  I knew you guys would keep me straight.   

I don't think I will ever do a double-battle again.  Not only was it twice the work, but it exponentially increased the amount of stuff to keep track of.  Working against another opponent also added another layer of complexity.

Based on the fun I had though and the things I learned, I have no regrets. 

I think I need a several week break though before we launch the next TDG.  (I have some Empire models that need to be put together/painted that are begging for my attention....)

[Windelov]

Cant blame you for missing at detail or two. Considering how much I miss during a single game with actual models, Im surpriced how accurately these tdg perform.

Again great job! And when/if you feel like taking another swing, we will love having you in the gamemaster seat )

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[Fandir Nightshade]

I also want to apologize to hhg and team blue that i left the boat in a critical moment but you guys did great without me.

[grifter]

Wow, what a ride! Fantastic job HHG!

I don´t want to pat our own backs to much, but I think with average dice both teams would have had this in the bag much earlier.

Really excited about some feedback from the Dreadlord, if he´s willing to give some. Awesome (and dreadful) opponent!

[Fandir Nightshade]

Another thing team blue should have 125 more vic points as bsb and ick standards were recaptured by the tgm...i think the points for standards are only granted when the enemy holdsthem in his claws at the end of the game...green still wins ...but by a pubic hairs width

[SevenSins]

This has been great fun and quite interesting, tempted to dig out my dark elves, and in testing a TGM too   

A solid cheers to HHG (and dreadlord) for doing this 

[Windelov]

Another thing team blue should have 125 more vic points as bsb and ick standards were recaptured by the tgm...i think the points for standards are only granted when the enemy holdsthem in his claws at the end of the game...green still wins ...but by a pubic hairs width

Also, vanilla knights should not have fleed as we won combat, thats 110 points. on the other hand, im unsure if the bsb counts as recaptured when it was killed by magic and therefor not seized.

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[Holy Hand Grenade]

Another thing team blue should have 125 more vic points as bsb and ick standards were recaptured by the tgm...i think the points for standards are only granted when the enemy holdsthem in his claws at the end of the game...green still wins ...but by a pubic hairs width

Also, vanilla knights should not have fleed as we won combat, thats 110 points. on the other hand, im unsure if the bsb counts as recaptured when it was killed by magic and therefor not seized.

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Vanilla Knights never died so those points were never in question.  Note, they are still on the "end of game" graph.

As for Fandir, I think you are stuck in a different edition.....maybe last edition?  As far as I can tell in 8th, you capture it, the points are yours.   

[Noght]

Well done Sir!  Bravo!  Simply Amazing!