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The General Archive => Empire Army Book 8th Edition => Lords Heroes and Special Characters => Topic started by: Mogsam on May 12, 2009, 05:01:26 PM

Title: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 12, 2009, 05:01:26 PM
Either upgradable General of the Empire/Captain or Priest/Lector.

Who doesn't want to burn things? Causes hatred against anything non human/evil. Pointed hat, burning things.

Did I mention he should burn things? Cause fear in necromancers and such..

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Merrick on May 12, 2009, 05:37:50 PM
I would.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: patsy02 on May 12, 2009, 07:14:25 PM
But what role would the witch hunter have that the warrior priest or captain doesn't cover?
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 12, 2009, 07:19:52 PM
No magic and the fighting skills of a captain. I'm sure he would generate dispel too. That and he really should be in the list.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: pcha on May 12, 2009, 07:20:38 PM
He should generate dispel dice as per priest, and have specific anti undead ability - no raising within 12" and immunity to fear?
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Feanor Fire Heart on May 12, 2009, 07:25:59 PM
and some sort of ability to burn zombies.  molotov cocktail?  but with hunters are more ment to hunt down mages right?  perhaps autmatic spell resistance of 1 or 2?
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: patsy02 on May 12, 2009, 07:34:15 PM
Maybe he can be some sort of anti-magic character, not generating any dispel dice but placing major penalties on enemy mages wanting to cast spells(like a 12" buffer zone) and having some sort of bonus when it comes to killing them, so the witch hunter can live up to his title.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: bluetwyst on May 12, 2009, 07:44:05 PM
Killing blow an 5+ against wizards?

Also how about increasing damage by 1 against undead, daemons, and forest spirits.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: patsy02 on May 12, 2009, 09:16:43 PM
Quote
Killing blow an 5+ against wizards?
That's good, but actually killing them isn't the challenge - the challenge is getting to them, and between hiding in units and riding away on horses, catching them is practically impossible.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Merrick on May 12, 2009, 09:17:16 PM
But what role would the witch hunter have that the warrior priest or captain doesn't cover?

 ::heretic::BURNING HERETICS! ::heretic::
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: fauthsie on May 12, 2009, 10:16:50 PM
One option could to make him an upgrade like the priest of ulric were for miliia units ie leading a mob to burn the witch.... He is going to have several similar bonuses to WP and from what i know of Witch hunters and Warrior priest they work together to drive out heretics

Whether a stand alone character or upgrade here are some ideas for bonuses....

Hatred for Daemons, Undead, Skaven, Greenskins, Magic users
Magicial Wards - MR (2) or MR (1) for units within 6"
Blessed/silver weapons- all attacks count as magical...
burn them - all attacks count as flaming...
Distrust of magic- May not be in the same unit as a friendly magic user (maybe some type of test at the begining of the game if failed the magic user is scene as heretical -1W)
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Michael W on May 13, 2009, 01:42:58 AM
I wrote up some ideas for a Witch Hunter a while back.

My concept was that he was, essentially, a character who made the unit he joined a bit better.  He had access to some level of ward save, but not the armour of other characters.  He also had some tricks against enemy characters.

The big thing about him was the ability to motivate his unit each turn.  At the start of each turn, the player declared what ability the Witch Hunter was trying to use and made a Leadership test (Ld 8 Hero).  If successful, the unit got flaming/magical attacks, frenzy, stubborn, or whatever other ability he was granting.  If failed, then...his rousing speech was less than rousing.  It rendered him different from the other characters, but left the Captain as the real fighter, the Priest as the anti-wizard, and the Engineer as...well, still useless.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Helgrim on May 13, 2009, 10:19:42 AM
I'd like to see them in a scouting role, with inherent magical resistance and magical attacks and with ITP/hatred. You could buy other skills (similar to the way dark elf assassins work) and send him off to stop small units of things like wraiths, small units of horrors etc.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Toni on May 13, 2009, 10:38:39 AM
*Fluff police arives*

You know that in a current timeline there is really no much of witch hunters.. Witch hunters were during the time of mordheim so way back in time. This was becouse wizards were considered as chaos worshippers, witches or whatsoever.. But nowdays when there is college of magic and wizards aren't considered as bad guys there is no that much of need for witch hunters. And I think that witch hunters are not the guys leading a complete army. They may have a small warband, but warrior priest is more like guy who goes to war with an entire army.. Which hunters don't do that kind of things. Witch hunters are like FBI but in fantasyworld. :D I just doesn't see it reasonable option for a armybook. In my opinion it just doesn't belong to Empire army.

Well I won't say there couldn't be exceptions, but I think if someone wants to make witch hunter themed army he can as well as use warrior priest counts as.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Merrick on May 13, 2009, 10:40:53 AM
*Fluff police arives*

You know that in a current timeline there is really no much of witch hunters.. Witch hunters were during the time of mordheim so way back in time.

Not all Empire armies are set in the current times, though.

It gives the force much more variety.

I just doesn't see it reasonable option for a armybook. It doesn't belong to Empire army.

Again, this depends on the fluff of a player's army.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 13, 2009, 10:42:25 AM
Actually there would be tons of witch hunters. Just because the college of magic exists doesn't mean people would trust them, in fact most of the fluff says the people hate the magicians. Which isn't suprising seeing as how they go round throwing fireballs. Saying theres no witch hunters through fluff is just so innaccurate.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Toni on May 13, 2009, 10:55:34 AM
*Fluff police arives*

You know that in a current timeline there is really no much of witch hunters.. Witch hunters were during the time of mordheim so way back in time.

Not all Empire armies are set in the current times, though.

It gives the force much more variety.

I just doesn't see it reasonable option for a armybook. It doesn't belong to Empire army.

Again, this depends on the fluff of a player's army.

Well yes thats true, but still. Witch hunter isn't the guy who takes an entire army with him and then chases one freaking wizard around the empire. He can do it with his warband. He doesn't need army for that.

Actually there would be tons of witch hunters. Just because the college of magic exists doesn't mean people would trust them, in fact most of the fluff says the people hate the magicians. Which isn't suprising seeing as how they go round throwing fireballs. Saying theres no witch hunters through fluff is just so innaccurate.

Mogsam

Yes the witch hunters hunt wizards who practice magic outside the colleges of magic. That is their job nowdays. They don't need army to do it.


And as I said.

Quote
Well I won't say there couldn't be exceptions, but I think if someone wants to make witch hunter themed army he can as well as use warrior priest counts as.

I totally accept that if someone wants to make witch hunter themed army, but I just think that it isn't proper option for armybook. And I don't see why people couldn't use captain or warrior priest rules for that.

Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Merrick on May 13, 2009, 11:02:59 AM
In which case, perhaps have a Witch Hunter as an upgrade for a unit of free company of 20 models or greater?
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 13, 2009, 11:22:28 AM
Depends on how strong the wizard is/whether the wizard has supporters/whether he is chasing a chaos army across the land/whether the wizard has joined an army for protection/whether he is hunting a vampire count.

There are tons of reasons a Witch Hunter might need an army.

WP are not particularly good fighters, their skill is their ability to use prayers. Which would not be appropriate for a Witch Hunter.

Captains are slightly better fighters, they cannot do anything. Which makes them rubbish in comparison to a Witch Hunter...and everything else really.

Therefore Witch Hunters would be a good addition. They aren't holy priests or regular captains.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Feanor Fire Heart on May 13, 2009, 01:02:51 PM
Playing around with army lists I have created a witch hunter before.  I gave him a hand weapon, light armor, pistol, and I forgot if I gave him the sigil of sigmar for magic resistance or a holy relic for ward save.  its been awhile.  Model wise with that he fits the bill, fluff wise the magic resistance and/or the nice 4+ ward save would protect him from magic.  I was thinking of putting him with some flaggies or with a unit of swordsmen.

Now I say he could be the champion of a new unit or an exsisting one like flaggies or free company.  Perhaps if they creaed a new unit it would consist of peasants with torches and pitchforks counting as both flaming attacks and spears?
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Toni on May 13, 2009, 01:08:24 PM
Depends on how strong the wizard is/whether the wizard has supporters/whether he is chasing a chaos army across the land/whether the wizard has joined an army for protection/whether he is hunting a vampire count.

There are tons of reasons a Witch Hunter might need an army.

Well there is no such great wizard among normal men that you would need a complete army to beat him., A random wizard who happens to be little evil with whole army of followers.. Yea right.. Chaos armies just don't walk to empire and reqruit some random wizard who wants to be bad.. I think if chaos army is going to enter empire it will be noticed quite soon. And if some slightly evil wizard wants to gtfo from empire I think no one couldn't care less.

Vampires are different story. But you know that it takes years and years that a vampire can create complete army of undead. It isn't just piece of cake to raise an complete army. Only few vampires can even do that. Most of them just live normal aristocratic life among the citizen and no one even knows about them.

WP are not particularly good fighters, their skill is their ability to use prayers. Which would not be appropriate for a Witch Hunter.

Captains are slightly better fighters, they cannot do anything. Which makes them rubbish in comparison to a Witch Hunter...and everything else really.

Therefore Witch Hunters would be a good addition. They aren't holy priests or regular captains.

Mogsam

What does make you think that witch hunter is somekind of killing machine? If witch hunter is such an great fighter and even better than captain? Why wouldn't they be leading armies? Captains and generals are very very good fighters among humankind. Very rare man can even reach that kind of level. And so are the warrior priest. I think witch hunter is nothing compared to them. Witch hunters are some random tuff guys who want to make money. They go, ambush and gangbang their target. They just kick their ass while they sleep or something. They don't give them mercy or fight fairly. There is no need to be some Karl Franz to beat some random witch ass. I just personally don't see witch hunter as a hero level character.

In which case, perhaps have a Witch Hunter as an upgrade for a unit of free company of 20 models or greater?

Well this is wonderful idea. I like it very much. Much more like it should be in my opinion.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Feanor Fire Heart on May 13, 2009, 01:16:33 PM
I feel Toni is right to a point, fluff wise they are the magic secret police.  However I think they should be an option as they still fight vamps and would be a great advisor and fighter against such an army.  Perhaps instead of a new HQ unit they should be a special character and have special abilities when fighting undead, magic, and demons
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Obi on May 13, 2009, 02:12:23 PM
I think a witch hunter would be an empire captain. 15 points magic items max, and immune to fear.

He is auto armed with a pistol and may not choose any other equipment than any of the armours and/or a shield.

May choose to strike with his torch -> flaming attacks.

Hate all undead and daemons, confers this to any unit he joins.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 13, 2009, 02:34:57 PM
I never said he was an uber killing machine. I suggested that a witch hunter wouldn't go round with his full plate armour and a sword. He would have better equipment for dealing with evil. How many people genuinely take captains for their fighting skill? That is why he would be better. Unless its on a pegasus or a BSB the captain is worse than a Warrior Priest. There has to be more options for hero level characters or no one will ever take a captain in comparison to a Warrior Priest. A Witch Hunter wouldn't make the list so generic.

You're working entirely on assumptions of things I haven't said. A whole army? Is 500 points an army? Yes it is, but it could be 40 people. Thats not too unlikely, could easily be a cult that size in any large town that might need to flee from a witch hunter and his followers. A witch hunter doesn't wander round with his friend Barry to go kill powerful enemies or vampires. Even a vampires human followers would take this crap witch hunter your describing. (They often have pro vamp humans help them in fluff that isn't the army book of look how badass we are.) Thats not an entire army, but he wouldn't go by himself unless his name was Gunther van Suicidal.

So the wizard has fled to a chaos army, I assume the witch hunter goes, "sod this guys, go let that general kill the wizard, we've done our part. Siesta time!" No chance Witch hunter and Bryan would join the army to smite the evil + MORE EVIL. Whilst they might ambush their target it isn't ALLWAYS going to work like that. Sometimes they would have to fight on a battle field if they can't get to the enemy in an advantage.

I never said make the witch hunter an awesome fighter. If anything he should have the same amount of attacks as a captain, but he should also be better at fighting evil. Which in witch hunter world would be anything not him.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: mastercats on May 13, 2009, 02:40:11 PM
witch hunters do exist now aays it says in alittle side box some wherei n the empire rule book. They go after anyone uwho dares to try un conventional magic like necroamncers.

Whitch hunters:
high weapons skill
basic strength (s3)
basictoughness(s3)
good BS
3 attacks
generates dispel dice
declares player get to pick who the witch hunter fights in challenges and must when ever given the chance must challenge. The enemy he challenges is force to fight iwht the w hitch hunter.(as the witch hunter chases them down into the unit so quick iwth the sword he hold it ot the throat of any that jumps to attack him.)
enemy wizards with in 12" get -3 to casting.
hates all undead, daemons, enemy wizards, and forest sprites.
Can join scouting units and deploy with them as regular


equiped with a brase of pistol and a hand weapon(for show). light armour
lord choice may only take 25 points of magic items. Can only be magic weapons.

THats what a witch hunter should be i believe. Put him with a rag tag group of huntsmen. Let him do alittle pistol throwing lol. Then when it gets dicing  ru naway let the huntmen take the blame or let the huntsmen get laittle bold and charge to kill a enemy wizard. Or let hte guy go into combat alone and challenge. That way hes a anti magic character killer like non other.  I also comtimplate giving him killiong blow or always strikes first. When i think witch hunter i think the of an extremely cocky person lmao.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Feanor Fire Heart on May 13, 2009, 02:41:02 PM
woaw everyone

(http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/2/11/128788720593864765.jpg)

Remember with fluff you can add nearly ANYTHING to an army.  Why not a witch hunter.  Hell CIA guys travel with the army somtimes to eliminate people, why not the witch hunter?
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: rufus sparkfire on May 13, 2009, 02:42:01 PM
I suggested that a witch hunter wouldn't go round with his full plate armour and a sword.

In warhammer roleplay, they do wear full plate armour...
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 13, 2009, 03:06:24 PM
Shh Rufus go back to being the midden member on the board which isn't hidden because your the only person who uses it.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: rufus sparkfire on May 13, 2009, 03:11:33 PM
I don't know what that means, but OK.



p.s. I think witch hunters do need to be in the list, because the mordheim miniatures are really great.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 13, 2009, 03:21:59 PM
If your online the "Users currently online" at the bottom of the mainpage or whatever it is says ######Guests#####Users#### (1 Hidden User)

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Obi on May 13, 2009, 04:17:33 PM
I suggested that a witch hunter wouldn't go round with his full plate armour and a sword.

In warhammer roleplay, they do wear full plate armour...
they should. After all, they're smart and want to live :roll:

I don't agree with master- I like most of the ideas, but I don't like that he has a 6+ AS. That's just stupid- after all he'll be more expensive than a regulair CotE with those rules.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: mastercats on May 13, 2009, 04:28:39 PM
Then let him use magic armour too and then he gets AoMI. Problem with that is he wont get a magic weapon. I jsut was trying ot think of a way where he wont be unkillable lmao. I was also making him into a cocky assassin lol. That of maybe heavy armour and shield option but a whichhunter wouldn't look cool hiding behind a shield lol. I dont say full plate as he  shouldn't get to good of a save to easily other wise he would be to good. I was trying to go for an anti wizard.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Shadoweyed on May 13, 2009, 06:55:37 PM
My vision of Witch Hunter rules would look something like this:

M4 WS5 BS5 S4 T4 I4 A2 Ld8
May Not be the General.
Equipment: Pistol, Hand Weapon, Light Armor.
Special: Grants Hatred to any unit joined.

May Upgrade Pistol to Brace. May Upgrade Light Armor to Heavy or Full Plate.
May Ride a Warhorse, Barded or UnBarded.
May take up to 50 points in magic items.

May also choose one of the following specialization upgrades:
Undead Hunter: The witch Hunter has spent enough time hunting and killing undead that he knows many of the weak points and how to strike where they won't recover.
Gives the Witch Hunter rerolls to Wound against all undead, as well as making his unit immune to auto-breaking from losing combat to Fear causing undead.

Chaos Killer: The witch hunter has chased many a chaos worshiper his lands and slain more.
Gives the witch hunter and any unit he joins the ability to roll 3 dice (4 if mounted) to pursue and choose the highest 2 (3 if mounted).

Mage Masher: The witch hunter has focused on hunting rogue casters and as such can shrug off many a magic blows.
The witch hunter has MR1 and any unit he joins will not take Panic tests due to magic.

Just some quick thinking.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Feanor Fire Heart on May 13, 2009, 07:00:45 PM
M4 WS5 BS5 S4 T4 I4 A2 Ld8

not a fan of those stats. is he a space marine chapter master?  :icon_eek:
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Shadoweyed on May 13, 2009, 07:02:39 PM
I wasn't looking at the Empire book, aren't those fairly close to the Captain?
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Toni on May 13, 2009, 07:20:40 PM
witch hunters do exist now aays it says in alittle side box some wherei n the empire rule book. They go after anyone uwho dares to try un conventional magic like necroamncers.

Whitch hunters:
high weapons skill
basic strength (s3)
basictoughness(s3)
good BS
3 attacks
generates dispel dice
declares player get to pick who the witch hunter fights in challenges and must when ever given the chance must challenge. The enemy he challenges is force to fight iwht the w hitch hunter.(as the witch hunter chases them down into the unit so quick iwth the sword he hold it ot the throat of any that jumps to attack him.)
enemy wizards with in 12" get -3 to casting.
hates all undead, daemons, enemy wizards, and forest sprites.
Can join scouting units and deploy with them as regular


equiped with a brase of pistol and a hand weapon(for show). light armour
lord choice may only take 25 points of magic items. Can only be magic weapons.

THats what a witch hunter should be i believe. Put him with a rag tag group of huntsmen. Let him do alittle pistol throwing lol. Then when it gets dicing  ru naway let the huntmen take the blame or let the huntsmen get laittle bold and charge to kill a enemy wizard. Or let hte guy go into combat alone and challenge. That way hes a anti magic character killer like non other.  I also comtimplate giving him killiong blow or always strikes first. When i think witch hunter i think the of an extremely cocky person lmao.

-High ws ---- Why?
-strenght 3 ---- ok
-toughnes 3 ---- ok
-good bs ---- why?
-3 attacks ----- well maybe
-generates dispel dice ---- could be
-declares player get to pick who the witch hunter fights in challenges and must when ever given the chance must challenge. The enemy he challenges is force to fight iwht the w hitch hunter.(as the witch hunter chases them down into the unit so quick iwth the sword he hold it ot the throat of any that jumps to attack him.) ----what the heck? Seriously? Does he catch flyin bloodthirster and hold sword in his trout?
-enemy wizards with in 12" get -3 to casting. ---- hey what the heck again? Why? Becouse he has torch and leather jacket?
-hates all undead, daemons, enemy wizards, and forest sprites. ---- sounds good, but forest spirits? Why? Does he have some kind of trauma from childhood stories?
-Can join scouting units and deploy with them as regular ----- Yea right scout deployment + -3 casting enemy wizards within 12"... Not beardy at all? :o

I never said he was an uber killing machine. I suggested that a witch hunter wouldn't go round with his full plate armour and a sword. He would have better equipment for dealing with evil. How many people genuinely take captains for their fighting skill? That is why he would be better. Unless its on a pegasus or a BSB the captain is worse than a Warrior Priest. There has to be more options for hero level characters or no one will ever take a captain in comparison to a Warrior Priest. A Witch Hunter wouldn't make the list so generic.

Equipment for dealing with evil? Like garlic or perhaps mirror? :D Don't know what the heck they would do but maybe people would be happy. :D yes no one takes captain for their fighting skill, but if witch hunter would be cheaper than captain then why not? If it would cost like 30pts? I just don't see any sense making it better fighter than captain. Then it would be freaking elf or a chaos champion.

You're working entirely on assumptions of things I haven't said. A whole army? Is 500 points an army? Yes it is, but it could be 40 people. Thats not too unlikely, could easily be a cult that size in any large town that might need to flee from a witch hunter and his followers. A witch hunter doesn't wander round with his friend Barry to go kill powerful enemies or vampires. Even a vampires human followers would take this crap witch hunter your describing. (They often have pro vamp humans help them in fluff that isn't the army book of look how badass we are.) Thats not an entire army, but he wouldn't go by himself unless his name was Gunther van Suicidal.

And you are working entirely on assumptions of things that I haven't said. I said that he would go around with his warband. I never said he would go alone. But I just cant see witch hunter leading some freaking battlegroup witch consists of swordmen, cannons and steamtanks. :D And that is what the most of armies would consist of anyway. If you have enough imagination you can take just captain and equip it with items you want and it will go very well as a witchunter. Why should it have some fancy pancy special rules which are not even fluff vice?


So the wizard has fled to a chaos army, I assume the witch hunter goes, "sod this guys, go let that general kill the wizard, we've done our part. Siesta time!" No chance Witch hunter and Bryan would join the army to smite the evil + MORE EVIL. Whilst they might ambush their target it isn't ALLWAYS going to work like that. Sometimes they would have to fight on a battle field if they can't get to the enemy in an advantage.

Or then the Witch hunter and his apprentice Bryan could just let them flee and keep their own lives and seek new evil wizard and kick his bottom and get some money. It takes guts to join to a war and chace freaking chaos army just becouse of one wizard.

Yes maybe it isn't going to always work. But I am sure that the last place where sensible witch hunter wants to face chaos wizard is a battlefield with full of his followers on his side.

I never said make the witch hunter an awesome fighter. If anything he should have the same amount of attacks as a captain, but he should also be better at fighting evil. Which in witch hunter world would be anything not him.

Well yes you kind of did. And why captain wouldn't be comparable to witch hunter for fighting evil? What kind of special tricks there is to kill evil that captain wouldn't know? "Oi bugger! Poke skeleton in thee eye and kick it to its groinings so it will collapse!", said witch hunter? I think captain has seen and fought against more evil than average witch hunter will never even see.

It just seems that we have so different kind of views on this subject...


My vision of Witch Hunter rules would look something like this:

M4 WS5 BS5 S4 T4 I4 A2 Ld8
May Not be the General.
Equipment: Pistol, Hand Weapon, Light Armor.
Special: Grants Hatred to any unit joined.

May Upgrade Pistol to Brace. May Upgrade Light Armor to Heavy or Full Plate.
May Ride a Warhorse, Barded or UnBarded.
May take up to 50 points in magic items.

May also choose one of the following specialization upgrades:
Undead Hunter: The witch Hunter has spent enough time hunting and killing undead that he knows many of the weak points and how to strike where they won't recover.
Gives the Witch Hunter rerolls to Wound against all undead, as well as making his unit immune to auto-breaking from losing combat to Fear causing undead.

Chaos Killer: The witch hunter has chased many a chaos worshiper his lands and slain more.
Gives the witch hunter and any unit he joins the ability to roll 3 dice (4 if mounted) to pursue and choose the highest 2 (3 if mounted).

Mage Masher: The witch hunter has focused on hunting rogue casters and as such can shrug off many a magic blows.
The witch hunter has MR1 and any unit he joins will not take Panic tests due to magic.

Just some quick thinking.

M4 WS5 BS5 S4 T4 I4 A2 Ld8

not a fan of those stats. is he a space marine chapter master?  :icon_eek:

I agree totally.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 13, 2009, 09:50:45 PM
See, I don't think most Captains would be that active in fighting evil.Think about it this way, the Empire would have litterally tens of thousands of soldiers. A large proportion of those would be city guards who never see any gribblies at all. So the arguement that a captain would see more evil isn't a strong one. The inner city guard captains aren't going to be that good at fighting, they'd be more into keeping the peace, posh nobles sons who let the hardened troops go sort out the criminals. Take the G&F books, the captains don't even want to know that the Skaven are different from Beastmen, they never leave the city so they wouldn't know. It takes guts to join an army yes, it also takes guts to volunterally chase someone who can throw fireballs at your face.

The Witch Hunters would be fantical loonies who choose to go hunt down the gribblies of the world, in my mind they wouldn't avoid a battle if they could. They'd go burn more evil guys. They wouldn't be better than an actual seasoned captain who isn't a city guard, but they wouldn't be anyless effective. After all they wander round the empire looking for these guys. If they were mediocre their career wouldn't last very long. Perhaps not allow him to be the general if there are state troops present.

Why would he ever cost 30 points? If anything he'd just be inbetween a priest and a captain. Dispel dice + fighting perhaps. As for equiped with weapons that combat evil i'll ignore the  ":lol:" and suggest that maybe fire might be a good idea. Seeing as how everything evil and their mother is regenerating these days.

I don't see why everyone wants to give him 25 points of magic. Just give him "Witch Hunter only" items. If assassins get it then I don't see an issue for a genuine character getting them.

At least he doesn't throw pidgeons.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Toni on May 13, 2009, 11:47:17 PM
See, I don't think most Captains would be that active in fighting evil.Think about it this way, the Empire would have litterally tens of thousands of soldiers. A large proportion of those would be city guards who never see any gribblies at all. So the arguement that a captain would see more evil isn't a strong one. The inner city guard captains aren't going to be that good at fighting, they'd be more into keeping the peace, posh nobles sons who let the hardened troops go sort out the criminals. Take the G&F books, the captains don't even want to know that the Skaven are different from Beastmen, they never leave the city so they wouldn't know. It takes guts to join an army yes, it also takes guts to volunterally chase someone who can throw fireballs at your face.

Yes I know. If they are so good, why empire wouldn't just hire army full of witch hunters to protect empire. I just don't see witch hunter above the captain. They aren't some fearless warriors who have battled against every aspect of evil. And captains aren't just some aristocratic who spend their time sipping tea and sitting somewhere their thumbs in their asses. They practice fighting and they practise a lot. That is what makes them so "good" warriors.

Yes can throw fireballs. Magic is random event among human wizards. They eat mushrooms and do some freaky stuff to get in somekind of "higher state" so they can controll the magical powers. And even they get there they can't know for sure what is going to happen. Spells are not something that are learned, they can be totally different in each time. Wizards just don't fly around shooting fireballs.

The Witch Hunters would be fantical loonies who choose to go hunt down the gribblies of the world, in my mind they wouldn't avoid a battle if they could. They'd go burn more evil guys. They wouldn't be better than an actual seasoned captain who isn't a city guard, but they wouldn't be anyless effective. After all they wander round the empire looking for these guys. If they were mediocre their career wouldn't last very long. Perhaps not allow him to be the general if there are state troops present.

But I don't think it makes them any better. And I still don't see them as a proper part of hero section.

Why would he ever cost 30 points? If anything he'd just be inbetween a priest and a captain. Dispel dice + fighting perhaps. As for equiped with weapons that combat evil i'll ignore the  "cheesy" and suggest that maybe fire might be a good idea. Seeing as how everything evil and their mother is regenerating these days.

Well just becouse I wouldn't want it to be some cheesy "I can do anything" character. And I don't see reason that witch hunter should give more dispel. Where does it come from?
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 13, 2009, 11:54:09 PM
Yes can throw fireballs. Magic is random event among human wizards. They eat mushrooms and do some freaky stuff to get in somekind of "higher state" so they can controll the magical powers. And even they get there they can't know for sure what is going to happen. Spells are not something that are learned, they can be totally different in each time. Wizards just don't fly around shooting fireballs.

What? When did the Empire Wizards turn into mushroom eating random stuff and blowing stuff up? They are the same as everyone else they just have to specialise because they lack the mental powers to control more than one of the winds.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: mastercats on May 14, 2009, 12:03:46 AM
Witch hunter fluff wise are designed to protect the empire from teh dark arts and other magical enemies beyond their control.  So it would stand to reason he'd give wizards more of a hard time than just killing them. You'd think he'd get wi zards to craft him  magical protective talismens or dwarf ruins or somthing. High weapon skill for fluff reasons no other real reason. NO smash your face off weapons thats why no magic items. Possible killing blow or possibly killing blow against targets with armor saves of 5+ after modifications.  Hes a glorified assassin whose not so subtle.  I'm against awesome armour because he doesn't need awesome armour.

He's learned to get in and get out. He would do best going into combat alone where he can challenge kill who he needs to and get out.

also in mags defence yes wizards are trained in magic. The empire was first taught by elves to harness magic. The problem is that they can't see the winds of magic. So they can't go "oh some bad mojo here man lets not cast." They also can't go "oh hmm let me just drain some of hte magical energy from that wizard over there to make his day go worse or let me suck some of this good high quality energy right here so i can cast spells better." Humans can't do that but they can still tap into the winds of magic if taught. This is said before they start talking about the colleges and also in the little wizard summary. I like magic fluff toni, so i've read the magic fluff o all magicfluffable armies.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: rufus sparkfire on May 14, 2009, 12:12:37 AM
Yes can throw fireballs. Magic is random event among human wizards. They eat mushrooms and do some freaky stuff to get in somekind of "higher state" so they can controll the magical powers. And even they get there they can't know for sure what is going to happen. Spells are not something that are learned, they can be totally different in each time. Wizards just don't fly around shooting fireballs.

Which crazy book is that from?
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: patsy02 on May 14, 2009, 01:04:18 AM
I still don't think he should have a dispel dice - we need to find a way to make him useful without trespassing into captain or warrior priest territory. I'm thinking he could work like a sort of weaker and unconcealed DE assassin-like character that specializes against magic users and evil things.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Feanor Fire Heart on May 14, 2009, 02:33:00 AM
i say he confers a magic resistance 1 or 2 to the unit he is in.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: mastercats on May 14, 2009, 04:41:18 AM
well i think a supression aura would work not a big fan of 40k myself but i think they have like unpsykess or waht ever that stop magic from being used around them. So then you have it make it harder for wizards near by to cast and your done give him talismens or whatever.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Toni on May 14, 2009, 07:04:27 AM
Yes can throw fireballs. Magic is random event among human wizards. They eat mushrooms and do some freaky stuff to get in somekind of "higher state" so they can controll the magical powers. And even they get there they can't know for sure what is going to happen. Spells are not something that are learned, they can be totally different in each time. Wizards just don't fly around shooting fireballs.

What? When did the Empire Wizards turn into mushroom eating random stuff and blowing stuff up? They are the same as everyone else they just have to specialise because they lack the mental powers to control more than one of the winds.

Mogsam

I have no idea. Maybe it was some part of some old fluff or something. :D Or maybe I ate mushrooms yesterday and tought we were talking about goblins here.. Sorry my bad.

well i think a supression aura would work not a big fan of 40k myself but i think they have like unpsykess or waht ever that stop magic from being used around them. So then you have it make it harder for wizards near by to cast and your done give him talismens or whatever.

I don't like the idea of aura. But the talisman is an excellent idea.. It could make sense. :P If he is enough pimp to own that kind of talisman. :D

I still don't think he should have a dispel dice - we need to find a way to make him useful without trespassing into captain or warrior priest territory. I'm thinking he could work like a sort of weaker and unconcealed DE assassin-like character that specializes against magic users and evil things.

I agree. Nicea ideas. Maybe magic resistance, but thats it.. Considering that we even already have one character who can fight and gives 1 dispel dice. It would make some difference the others.

Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Rodman49 on May 14, 2009, 08:41:26 AM
I totally accept that if someone wants to make witch hunter themed army, but I just think that it isn't proper option for armybook. And I don't see why people couldn't use captain or warrior priest rules for that.

I agree.  I would say add in some Witch Hunter based magic item or options to the captain rather than a new character slot.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 14, 2009, 10:12:58 AM
Yes can throw fireballs. Magic is random event among human wizards. They eat mushrooms and do some freaky stuff to get in somekind of "higher state" so they can controll the magical powers. And even they get there they can't know for sure what is going to happen. Spells are not something that are learned, they can be totally different in each time. Wizards just don't fly around shooting fireballs.

Which crazy book is that from?

How does Magic work in the more obscure books? The novels have it work as 8+ different colours going on the wind, the wizards have to draw the specific colour that represents what they want to do, if they are in certain area it might be more difficult. I.E its harder to draw life near the wastes and such.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Toro_Blanco on May 14, 2009, 02:39:01 PM
Honestly, I'd just be happy if they'd let me equip a WP with a pistol...

He feels close enough to what I've always considered a Witch Hunter anyway: hatred of enemies of the Empire (Sigmar's people, praise him!), decent weapon selection, various armors to choose from (for those who dislike full plate, the WP doesn't HAVE to take it)...Only difference is, of course, Witch Hunters are loners out to find the heretics, WPs are warriors seeking battle.

Hell, I'm currently converting a state trooper into a Witch Hunter to USE as a Warrior Priest!  Only downside is his pistol won't ACTUALLY fire, but the additional hand weapon option allows me to model him with both and still fit WYSIWYG.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Nicholas Bies on May 14, 2009, 03:31:39 PM
Witch Hunter - 80pts

Hero

M-4
WS-4
BS-4
Str-4
Tou-4
Wou-2
Att - 3
LD- 8

Usual armour options at usual cost for captain (no full plate)
may have all captains weapons (both ranged and melee) at usual cost for captain
may ride a warhorse with barding (again usual cost)

Sigmarite Charm - 6+wardsave, 5+against magical attacks (both spells and magic weapons)
Hatred
Burn the Witch - When in contact against a spell caster of any description (including horrors) the Witch Hunter and his unit gain Infinite Hatred until the enemy caster(s) has been slain. The Witch Hunter himself also gains the ability to re-roll wounds even when not allocating attacks against the enemy caster(s).
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Toro_Blanco on May 14, 2009, 03:34:37 PM
I'd remove the last bit about rerolling wounds NOT against the caster.  Seems wrong, to me.

"Argh!  Heretic scum!  I hate you with a fiery passion that only Sigmar himself could understand!  To prove it, I shall smite the bejesus out of this guy over here!"
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Nicholas Bies on May 14, 2009, 03:40:22 PM
Well the description would read:

The mere presence of a heretic drives the Witch Hunter into a frenzy of destruction, killing everything in his way until he comes face-to-face with the heretic he was destined to banish.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Feanor Fire Heart on May 14, 2009, 03:46:14 PM
again whats with the stat line, is he a Space Marine?! :dry:
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Warlord on May 14, 2009, 04:14:25 PM
A Captain may be upgraded to a Witch Hunter for 30 points
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Pistol
May not be equipped with a shield
May not ride a Pegasus
May not carry the armyís Battle Standard

Special Rules:
BLESSED WEAPONS
The weapons of the Witch Hunter have been specially prepared to battle the forces of evil.
All Witch Hunter attacks (close combat and missile) count as magical. Furthermore, the Witch Hunter also benefits from killing blow in challenges against any champions or characters from 'Evil' Armies (Hordes and Beasts of Chaos, Skaven, Undead and Chaos Dwarves).

UNQUENCHABLE ZEAL
The Witch Hunter and any unit he joins may re-roll any failed fear or terror tests as well as a reroll for any break tests that require insane courage to hold.

WE HAVE FOUND A WITCH. SHOULD WE BURN HER?
If you choose a Witch Hunter, the number of wizards you take may not exceed the number of Witch Hunters in your army. Furthermore, if you take a Witch Hunter, a Wizard Lord can never be your General.

--------

Perhaps add a bit about MR1, or -1 to cast against all enemy wizards within 12" (stackable with other Witch Hunters)

Witch Hunters make sense wearing Full Plate, they are Templars of Sigmar afterall.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 14, 2009, 04:41:00 PM
That stat line is average human? Not Space Marine.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Ganymede on May 14, 2009, 04:44:43 PM
Wouldn't the witch hunter easily fill a role similar to what assassins fill in the skaven and dark elf armies?
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Toni on May 14, 2009, 05:22:40 PM
Witch Hunter - 80pts

Hero

M-4
WS-4
BS-4
Str-4
Tou-4
Wou-2
Att - 3
LD- 8

Usual armour options at usual cost for captain (no full plate)
may have all captains weapons (both ranged and melee) at usual cost for captain
may ride a warhorse with barding (again usual cost)

Sigmarite Charm - 6+wardsave, 5+against magical attacks (both spells and magic weapons)
Hatred
Burn the Witch - When in contact against a spell caster of any description (including horrors) the Witch Hunter and his unit gain Infinite Hatred until the enemy caster(s) has been slain. The Witch Hunter himself also gains the ability to re-roll wounds even when not allocating attacks against the enemy caster(s).



That stat line is average human? Not Space Marine.

Mogsam

Average human? Bs4, T4, 3A and ld8 ain't average for sure. I'ld drop  bs to 3 and ld to 7. Ld8 is too high in my opinion. Becouse leadership isn't alla about the courage. It is about leading army and sharing your courage to troops. And witch hunters doesn't have much of experience leading armies. So that is why ld would be only 7. As Warlord suggested, he could reroll failed fear and terror tests or something to represent his personal courage. And the rule that he gets infinite hatred towards spellcasters seems little bit odd.

A Captain may be upgraded to a Witch Hunter for 30 points
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Pistol
May not be equipped with a shield
May not ride a Pegasus
May not carry the armyís Battle Standard

Special Rules:
BLESSED WEAPONS
The weapons of the Witch Hunter have been specially prepared to battle the forces of evil.
All Witch Hunter attacks (close combat and missile) count as magical. Furthermore, the Witch Hunter also benefits from killing blow in challenges against any champions or characters from 'Evil' Armies (Hordes and Beasts of Chaos, Skaven, Undead and Chaos Dwarves).

UNQUENCHABLE ZEAL
The Witch Hunter and any unit he joins may re-roll any failed fear or terror tests as well as a reroll for any break tests that require insane courage to hold.

WE HAVE FOUND A WITCH. SHOULD WE BURN HER?
If you choose a Witch Hunter, the number of wizards you take may not exceed the number of Witch Hunters in your army. Furthermore, if you take a Witch Hunter, a Wizard Lord can never be your General.

--------

Perhaps add a bit about MR1, or -1 to cast against all enemy wizards within 12" (stackable with other Witch Hunters)

Witch Hunters make sense wearing Full Plate, they are Templars of Sigmar afterall.

Blessed weapon is great idea. Maybe add flaming attacks too? So he can burn the witch literally. :P

Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Dannyfave on May 14, 2009, 06:09:46 PM
Quote
Average human? Bs4, T4, 3A and ld8 ain't average for sure. I'ld drop  bs to 3 and ld to 7. Ld8 is too high in my opinion. Becouse leadership isn't alla about the courage. It is about leading army and sharing your courage to troops. And witch hunters doesn't have much of experience leading armies. So that is why ld would be only 7. As Warlord suggested, he could reroll failed fear and terror tests or something to represent his personal courage. And the rule that he gets infinite hatred towards spellcasters seems little bit odd.

Or have immunity to fear and terror causers only cause fear for him.

I think his stats are fineconsidering that these guys fight Vampires for a living... it would take an extraordinary guy to last in the business of witch hunting.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 14, 2009, 06:19:46 PM
BS4 T4 and 3A are average human hero skills. They allways have T4, even Goblin heros have T4. Bugger all reason to drop them.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Bunkka-pop on May 14, 2009, 06:50:48 PM
"Argh!  Heretic scum!  I hate you with a fiery passion that only Sigmar himself could understand!  To prove it, I shall smite the bejesus out of this guy over here!"

 :icon_lol: Like totally sigged!
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: patsy02 on May 14, 2009, 09:30:11 PM
Witch Hunter - 80pts

Hero

M-4
WS-4
BS-4
Str-4
Tou-4
Wou-2
Att - 3
LD- 8

Usual armour options at usual cost for captain (no full plate)
may have all captains weapons (both ranged and melee) at usual cost for captain
may ride a warhorse with barding (again usual cost)

Sigmarite Charm - 6+wardsave, 5+against magical attacks (both spells and magic weapons)
Hatred
Burn the Witch - When in contact against a spell caster of any description (including horrors) the Witch Hunter and his unit gain Infinite Hatred until the enemy caster(s) has been slain. The Witch Hunter himself also gains the ability to re-roll wounds even when not allocating attacks against the enemy caster(s).

He's useless. Here you have a captain, mounted or on foot, who is barely any better and costs 60% more, and is unable to take the army standard or mount a pegasus.

Quote
again whats with the stat line, is he a Space Marine?!
So you think the empire captain, warrior priest, GOTE and GM are space marines too because of their stat line? This isn't 40k, and WS5, T4, S4, I5 are all regular human hero stats.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Markw on May 14, 2009, 09:55:50 PM
It might be worth digging out the old Witch Hunter rules from Warhammer Quest. I think this would give some ideas to how they have been in the past in an attempt to transpose those ideas into the Warhammer battle game.

I no longer have the Witch Hunter rules, but if I recall correctly, they where normal stats (nothing special) but they had loads of little bits which made him skillfull. Like vials of holy water he could throw or put on his weapon.

He should not be allowed Armour (maybe light at max). But the Witch Hunter never wore much armour.

I dont ever recall a Witch hunter riding horses.

Most important thing.... he needs to be armed with a PISTOL!!!!
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Nicholas Bies on May 15, 2009, 12:24:54 AM
BS4 T4 and 3A are average human hero skills. They allways have T4, even Goblin heros have T4. Bugger all reason to drop them.

Mogsam

QFT and a pox to anyone who says otherwise.

Patsy like all other Empire Characters the character isn't meant to be killy (an I don't give a damn about hte pegasus as I don't put him on one anyway  :icon_wink:) he's meant to support his unit.

If you had my GoTE upgraded to an Elector Count and a Warrior Priest you'd have a stubborn 7 hatred unit considering it would most likely be swords you'd have a decent amount of hits. +rank+banner with other option CR values.

The unit becomes effective.

I chose an arbitary points cost with the idea someone would throw out a few numbers rather then complaining about the number I chose.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Feanor Fire Heart on May 15, 2009, 12:44:37 AM
BS4 T4 and 3A are average human hero skills. They allways have T4, even Goblin heros have T4. Bugger all reason to drop them.

Mogsam

QFT and a pox to anyone who says otherwise.


if I get swine flu after you said this im coming for ya!  :biggriin:

guess i've been looking at the 40k army books too much latley.  :unsure:
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: MiB on May 15, 2009, 10:15:17 AM
Honestly... I feel Captains can represent Witch Hunters with little problem, the only thing I'd suggest if you really have to field them or have something specific would to make em cost another 20-30 points and give them Hatred, so more an upgrade than anything

Actually thats got me thinking now, captains act as main character types, can upgrade them to represent Witch Hunters, Engineers, etc...
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Spiney on May 15, 2009, 01:15:52 PM
Witch Hunter (Hero) - 60pts
WS - 4
BS - 5
S - 3
T - 3
W - 2
I - 5
A - 2
Ld - 8

Equipment
Handweapon

Additional
Either pistol (+6) or crossbow (+10)
Great Hammer (+4) or Flaming brand (c/a additional hand weap, gives flaming attacks), (+8)
light (+2) or heavy armour (+4)
horse (+10) with barding (+4)

Magic items allowance: 50pts, a Witch Hunter may not select ANY Enchanted items

Special rules
Lynch mob
Any infantry unit in an army containing a witch hunter may replace their hand weapons with flaming brands at +1 pt per model (count as hand weapon, convey flaming attacks), the unit's attacks count as flaming when using the brands only.

Suffer not the witch to live!
Wizards may not be taken in the same army as a Witch Hunter

Shield of Faith

The witch hunter has MR (1)

Purge the Unclean
When fighting against a unit with the Undead or demonic rule the Witch hunters unit benefits from Hatred, in addition, if fighting a challenged with a wizard, the Witch Hunter will also gain Hatred.

With the no wizards thing, I wanted there to be a down side to taking them, but DD can still be generated by priests so I went for MR as the WHs anti-magic ability. With regards to the slightly lame physical stat line, I wanted to represent that Witch hunters are sneaky individuals who lurk in dark corners and get other to do their dirty work rather than brawny captains or warrior priests.

Also note that the lynch mob rule, the brnds are a replacement  not an addition, when applied to units flaming brands count as hand weapons, but not additional hand weapons (so the number of attacks stays the same). Note also that a unit of greatswords does not benefit from flaming attacks while using their greatswords.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Nicholas Bies on May 15, 2009, 01:25:51 PM
You know what might be interesting...

Empire Captains and Empire Generals (exactly same points cost as current) may spend 50 points/100 points on magic items and 25pts/50pts on specialization. Each character may only choose 1 Specialization. If an EToG chooses a specialization he looses the free 50pt banner option


Warrior Priest - 25pts
This hero is a studious templar of the Warrior God Sigmar. He looses 1 attack and -1WS however he generates 1 DD and may cast 1 prayer in each magic phase

Arch Lector - 50pts
A mighty paragon of Sigmar's wrath this priest has proven himself worthy of his warrior god and is now a leading member of his church.
He looses 1 attack and -1WS however generates 2 DD and may cast 2 prayers in each magic phase, he may also be mounted upon a War Altar

Witch Hunter - 25pts
Hero gains hatred and generates 1DD

Infantryman - 25pts
When in an infantry unit that unit becomes Stuborn

Cavalryman - 25pts
When in a unit of cavalry may add an extra d6 to each charge and may re-roll 1 die for each flee and pursue distance

Elector Count - 50pts
MUST be given a runefang for 100pts, makes unit he is in unbreakable and all units within 6" stubborn


Just some ideas to throw out.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 15, 2009, 02:00:43 PM
I like Spineys bar the T3. No hero should have T3.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Nicholas Bies on May 15, 2009, 02:04:51 PM
I like Spineys bar the T3. No hero should have T3.

Mogsam

You realize then that the Witch Hunter doesn't get hatred unless in a challenge?
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 15, 2009, 02:27:36 PM
Only if you're being pointlessly pedantic. Pretty obvious if the unit is effected he intended for the character to be effected.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Nicholas Bies on May 15, 2009, 02:47:19 PM
Only if you're being pointlessly pedantic. Pretty obvious if the unit is effected he intended for the character to be effected.

Mogsam

It's not pedantic at all. It's the damned rules. If he was "meant" to have it then why add the "in addition, if fighting a challenged with a wizard, the Witch Hunter will also gain Hatred"

Don't generalize the rules Mogsam.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 15, 2009, 02:51:54 PM
Because hes suggesting that wizards can be in an army other than Daemons and Vampires or Tomb Kings.

If someone says to me "this rule doesn't really make sense, shall we play it this way?" I'm more than happy to let them play it if their way makes more sense. Even if it was a tournament I wouldn't be so hung up by the exact wording if the rule makes no sense whatsoever.

People who take everything as read make me a sad panda.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Nicholas Bies on May 15, 2009, 03:19:16 PM
People who modify rules to suit their preferences aren't playing the game correctly.

Yes some rules don't make sense but they're still the rules.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 15, 2009, 05:41:35 PM
Rubbish rules. Which means they are rubbish. Which means they should be changed to make the game better.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Toni on May 15, 2009, 06:39:01 PM
Jesys says: "Don't be a dick!"

That is supposed to be the rule number one in Warhammer. The rule that everyone should obey.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: patsy02 on May 15, 2009, 09:10:23 PM
Quote
Patsy like all other Empire Characters the character isn't meant to be killy (an I don't give a damn about hte pegasus as I don't put him on one anyway  icon_wink) he's meant to support his unit.
Like a captain equipped for melee you mean? :-P

There's no point in making a witch hunter character if he fulfills the exact same role as a warrior priest or a captain, or any cross between them.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: IsThisIt on May 16, 2009, 11:07:08 PM
I like the idea of making him an assassin.  I mean he is a Witch HUNTER.  Not a Witch "I'm going to calmly approach in a ranked unit and take my time to kill you."  This guy should be darting in and out of forests, jumping from roof tops, tracking the movement of heretics!

M 5 WS 5 BS 5 S 4 T 4 I 5 W 2 A 3 LD 7

A Witch Hunter always comes equipped with Light Armor, and a Shrouded Cloak, giving him a +3 save against shooting attacks and +1 against close combat attacks.  

Works Better Alone: A Witch Hunter may never join a unit.

Old Parlor Tricks:  The Witch Hunter refuses to admit that he is susceptible to magic, and therefore,  cannot be affected by spells, neither from a friendly source nor from an enemy.  

Hunter's Instincts: The Witch Hunter has hunted evil for decades and has developed super natural instincts.  The Witch Hunter benefits from a 5+ ward save.  The Witch Hunter benefits from being a Scout.

Been There, Done that: The Witch Hunter never has to take fear checks that would be required when fighting Undead or the forces of Chaos.

Different Job, Different Tool:  The Witch Hunter comes may chose to specialize in the hunting of certain models, and is equipped accordingly

The Undead: The Witch Hunter comes armed with the Crossbow of Smiting, Holy Water, and a Blessed Mace.  

Holy Water: One use only.  When engaged in a combat with an undead oponent, but before either side attacks, the Witch Hunter may declare that he is using his Holy Water.  Every model in the front rank of the undead unit suffers a strength 5 hit with no armor saves allowed.  Ward saves and Regeneration Saves may be taken as normal.  Characters do not benefit from "Look out, Sir!"

Crossbow of Smiting: This crossbow is rumored to have been blessed by Sigmar himself.  The crossbow can never hit on worse than a 4+, and may single out characters.  Note that when targeting characters in a unit, you still suffer the -1 penalty, but this cannot make you hit on anything worse than a 4+.  Resolve attacks from the Crossbow of Smiting as a bolt thrower as described in the rulebook.

Blessed Mace: Against undead, the Blessed Mace counts as a "poisoned" weapon.  Against all other opponents it still counts as a magical weapon.

The Heretic (Chaos):  The Witch Hunter comes armed with a Modified Repeater Pistol, Blessed Blade, and a Prayer Book.  

Modified Repeater Pistol:  The  Modified Repeater is of Emperor design, but with the craftsmanship of a Dwarf.  As such, the Modified Repeater Pistol is treated as a Repeater Pistol as described in the Empire rulebook with the following changes:  The Modified Repeater Pistol can never hit on worse than a 4+, and may single out individual characters.  Note that when targeting characters in a unit, you still suffer the -1 penalty, but this cannot make you hit on anything worse than a 4+.  The Modified Repeater Pistol has a range of 12" rather than 8".

Prayer Book: One use only.  At any time in the magic phase, the Empire player may declare that he is using a Prayer Book.  All Chaos units within 12" of the Witch Hunter take 1+d6 strength 5 hits with no armor saves allowed.  

Blessed Blade: Against Chaos opponents, the Blessed Blade counts as poisoned.  Against all other opponents, it still counts as magical weapon.  

The Wizard (any spell caster): The Witch Hunter comes armed with "The Silencer", a Companion Dagger, and the Invisibility Cloak.  

"The Silencer" is a magical dagger that has been used to cut many a spell short.  The Silencer may be used as either a throwing weapon, resolved as a pistol, or as a close combat weapon.  As a ranged weapon, the Silencer will always hit Wizards on a 3+, regardless of modifiers.  The Silencer may always target a Wizard even if some other rule would normally prevent him from doing so.  Against all other targets normal shooting penalties apply.  Such is the magical nature of The Silencer that should any Wizard be wounded by the dagger, he may not cast a spell for the remainder of the game, nor will he generate power dice nor dispel dice.  

One use only.  The Invisibility Cloak is an enchanted cloak that the Witch Hunter has picked up off the corpse of a mighty Archmage he has slain.  Once per game, in the Empire player's movement phase, the Empire player may declare that the Witch Hunter is using his Invisibility cloak.  Until the next the next Empire player's turn, for all intents and purposes, the Witch Hunter does not exist.  Units may move through him and may not target or inflict harm on him in any way.  Should the Witch Hunter attack while the Invisibility Cloak is active, he will cease to benefit from being Invisible.  

In close combat, the Companion Dagger may be used with "The Silencer" to generate an additional attack that is resolved as if from the Silencer.  

I would have this guy cost 75 points base.  The Undead kit would cost 65 points, the Chaos kit 50 points, and the Wizard kit 75.  I think these points are right more or less.  
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Derek Contyre on May 17, 2009, 01:13:09 AM
I like your version of the witch hunter best IsThisIt,  but only thing I can see is change his movement to four. . . I know it takes away from the quick moving assassin feel but all humans have m4, even mighty and powerful lords. But I suppose thats just in my mind, apart from that i personally like the rules systems you thought up. It must of taken a while to do.  :::cheers:::

Quote
Old Parlor Tricks:  The Witch Hunter refuses to admit that he is susceptible to magic, and therefore,  cannot be affected by spells, neither from a friendly source nor from an enemy.


That I think would be a mite too powerful, as he is scouting, has a three plus save against shooting at neg 1 for single model. even only t4 he's scouting pops him up behind the enemy, apart from skirmishing armies how could anyone deal with him? I'm thinking your rules are better suited to a witch hunter lord or guildmaster( I thought guildmaster would be an appropriate fluff line regarding the fact that Witch hunters work in an organised, funded by the empire role. ) And then just up or down the points costs for the lord level and hero level character.

Also on the rules for undead instead of every model in the front rank takes 1s5 hit, make it d6s5 hits, as in mind mind he would hurl the vial at them so it splashes the unit rather than running up and down the line chucking some on every model :happy:

And maybe for the magical ranged weapons like the pistol and crossbow, instead of always hits on a 4+ he has bs5 so I think the -1 for shooting at single model will be fine as then its only on a 3+.

Also for the invisibility cloak, if every witch hunter had one there wouldn't be many cultists left to threatun our proud empire will there?  :icon_mrgreen: Pls I don't think many wizards/rogue witchs have invisibility cloaks.

Maybe a hooded cloak but because it has been enchanted by a shadow wizard confers an additional -1 to hit penalty from shooting.

I was thinking too that for a hero choice, the stats go ws4 bs4 s4 t4 w2 i5 a3 ld7 while the lord would be your stats so ws5 bs5 s4 t4 w3 i5 a3 ld8 or ld9. . .

Just thoughts and constructive critisism, there have been some nasty postes on the earlier pages
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 17, 2009, 10:04:30 AM
Now that guys a space marine.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Nicholas Bies on May 17, 2009, 01:47:37 PM
well tbh he shouldn't have ld8. He should either be something like Ld10 but cannot share to the unit. Or Ld7 as he isn't a trained or disciplined Captain.


Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Toro_Blanco on May 17, 2009, 03:12:29 PM
I think with those stats and rules he is FAR beyond 75 points in base price.  I like the idea, but it's not quite balanced if you ask me.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Derek Contyre on May 18, 2009, 12:16:07 AM
Quote
Now that guys a space marine.

Enough about space marines! We play fantasy here, the rules and fluff regarding superhumans is differant.  :dry:

In the gw fluff space marines are above and beyond awesome they are like miniature gods stalking the battlefield, in 40k a guardsman has the regular statline of a human in a universe where guns are the norm, while in fantasy its still swords and stuff. If you wanted to make a space marine character you would him:
 m6 ws5 bs5 s5 t5 w2/3 i5 a3/4 ld10  :Ohmy:

Lol not that saying our lowly human witch hunters are a space marine but Mogsam when crossing 40k and fantasy remember fantasy hero's have better stats because of monsters and the like. If Chaos space marines had the profile of a chaos lord in fantasy then the game would be rediculous, like second ed 40k my friend once said. :mellow:

But enough about 40k sorry guys just had to say something, not specifically annoyed with good old mogsam here but I just don't like that quote  :blush:

Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Nicholas Bies on May 18, 2009, 12:32:48 AM
Don't forget they'd also have a 5+ invulnerable while Termis went to 4+. storm shield = 2+
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: t12161991 on May 18, 2009, 01:21:58 AM
Termies are still 5+. SS's are 3+.

Not that it matters with a 2+ AS... *grumble* stupid termies *grumble* Lost a game because of them yesterday...
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Nicholas Bies on May 18, 2009, 01:41:34 AM
Termies are still 5+. SS's are 3+.

Not that it matters with a 2+ AS... *grumble* stupid termies *grumble* Lost a game because of them yesterday...

I'm talking about what space marines SHOULD be like.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Mogsam on May 18, 2009, 09:33:05 AM
Quote
Now that guys a space marine.

Enough about space marines! We play fantasy here, the rules and fluff regarding superhumans is differant.  :dry:

In the gw fluff space marines are above and beyond awesome they are like miniature gods stalking the battlefield, in 40k a guardsman has the regular statline of a human in a universe where guns are the norm, while in fantasy its still swords and stuff. If you wanted to make a space marine character you would him:
 m6 ws5 bs5 s5 t5 w2/3 i5 a3/4 ld10  :Ohmy:

Lol not that saying our lowly human witch hunters are a space marine but Mogsam when crossing 40k and fantasy remember fantasy hero's have better stats because of monsters and the like. If Chaos space marines had the profile of a chaos lord in fantasy then the game would be rediculous, like second ed 40k my friend once said. :mellow:

But enough about 40k sorry guys just had to say something, not specifically annoyed with good old mogsam here but I just don't like that quote  :blush:


I was suggesting that the stats were ridiculous. Which they are.

Mogsam
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Olivo Mackisch on May 30, 2009, 08:32:43 PM
Witch Hunter (hero)

100 points

Ws 5
Bs 4
S 3
T 4
w 2
i 5
a 3
ld 7

Equipment: Rapier of cleansing, light armour, pistol, amulet of the serpant

Special rules: Master of guile, Company of the righteous, unstoppable purging.

Rapier of Cleansing

Grants the Witch Hunter +1S and ASF during combats with enemy wizards

Amulet of the serpant
The Witch Hunter benefits from a 5+ ward save a MR(1)

Master of guile
The Witch Hunter may choose to be placed in any enemy unit containing a wizard at the beginning of the battle, he may reveal himself at the beginning of any players turn and immediately be in combat next to the enemy wizard.

Company of the righteous
If the Witch Hunter is not deployed within an enemy unit he may be deployed as normal, but in addition he may be accompanied by 0-10 apprentice witch hunters at the cost of +10 points each (These have the stats of Ws4,Bs3,S3,T3,A1,I3,Ld7 and are equiped with a hand weapon, pistol and light armour) This unit has the Skirmish special rule and the Witch Hunter may never leave this unit.

Unstoppable Purging
The Witch Hunter is unbreakable if he (or the Company of the righteous) is in base contact with any enemy wizard.

Just a few random idea i came up with, i liked the idea of a "company" of witch hunters so i added them in there  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: kermitthefrog3 on June 03, 2009, 12:28:25 PM
Witch Hunter

90 Points

M 6
WS 6
BS 5
S 4
T 4
I 6
W 2
A 3
LD 8

Equipment: Light Armour, Brace of Pistols, Rapier (Hand Weapon)

Special Rules:

Burn the Witch!: Witch Hunters Have Hatred and Killing Blow when attacking Wizards, and similar magic users (exept Warrior Priests)

Wards of Protection: Once Revealed, a Witch Hunter has MR 1 and a 6+ Ward save

Stike Swiftly, Hunt Quickly: A Witch Hunter can hide in a friendly empire unit in the same way as a Dark Elf assasin. In addition to this, He can reveal himself by charging out of his unit at the start of a turn.

Blessed Weapons: The Witch Hunters weapons get +1 STR against Demons, undead and forest spirits.

Scout: A witch hunter may be deployed (possibly in hiding) in a unit of Huntsmen at the start of the game.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: MrDWhitey on June 03, 2009, 07:43:32 PM
I was bored:

130 Points

M   4
WS   5
BS   5
S   4
T   4
W   2
I   5
A   2
LD   8

Equipment: Hand Weapon. Brace of Pistols. Light Armour. Witch Hunterís Stovepipe Hat

Witch Hunterís Stovepipe Hat
Gives +1 to his save in close combat, and a 6+ Ward Save.

Hatred

Abhor the Witch
When firing upon, or striking a magic user of any form, the Witch Hunter gains a +1 bonus to all rolls to hit and wound, such is his enthusiasm (note it is a he, as females claiming to be witch hunters are burnt at the stake), his knowledge of users of the arcane, and also the silver bullets and holy stuff. His attacks also count as magic against all targets.

Fanaticism
The Witch Hunter is Immune to Psychology, but can never pass his leadership onto state troop units, due to them not particularly trusting a man who is currently frothing at the lips (plus the Captains keep doing that circular motion with their fingers next to their heads whilst pointing at him) . He can however rouse the rabble into a suitably insane frenzy of burning things, and thus if he is in a unit of Militia it can use his leadership, and it also gains the Immune to Psychology rule.

Faith in Sigmar
When directly targeted by a magic spell, the Witch hunter rolls 1d6. If this plus his Leadership value equal the dice rolled for the spell, or more, then the spell is counted as being dispelled. In addition, area of effect spells, or ones which do not target directly (such as wall of fire) do not affect the Witch Hunter. If this targets a unit he is in, the unit counts as having Magic Resistance 1. This represents the fact that he really doesnít like having fireballs thrown at him. That and faith or something.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: JGraham on October 28, 2009, 05:58:25 PM
Perhaps a rule that lets the witch hunter excel at assassinating mages out of units?  Maybe whenever he declares a challenge, he can choose which model will accept.

Also, perhaps a rule reflecting the fearsome reputation of the WH would be in order.  Not necessarily fearsome to one's opponent, but rather fearsome to one's own troops.  Maybe friendly units within a certain distance of the WH can reroll failed fear, terror, and panic checks.

Jim
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: Freman Bloodglaive on November 02, 2009, 09:00:12 AM
If we start with an Empire General.

On foot, with hand weapon and pistol.

Icon of Magnus (immune to fear)
Shroud of Magnus (5+ ward, MR(2))
Sword of Might (+1 strength)

It covers most of the bases, and it's doable within the rules we already have.

If we wanted a captain level character then the Icon, the Crimson Amulet and the Biting Blade (for those magical attacks) would probably do the job. If we wanted him to have hatred then using a Warrior Priest as a base might do.
Title: Re: Witch Hunter.
Post by: commandant on November 04, 2009, 03:27:05 PM
Witch Hunter (Lord Choice)
WS 5 BS 5 S 4 T 4 W 3 I 5 A 3 LPoints 125

Equipment:
Full Plate Armour, Brace of Pistols, Handweapon

Speical Rules:
Hatrid, Causes fear, Been There Before, For Sigmars.

Been There Before

The Witch Hunter has seen it all and lived through it.   To represent this he dose not need to take terror test against any Skaven, demon, chaos or undead models.   He can pass this onto his unit.

For Sigmar.
The zeal of the Witch Hunter is unstoppable.   If a unit containing the Witch Hunter fails a break test he may fire his pistol into the unit to stop it running.   The pistol dose d3 wounds and the unit counts as having rolled snake eyes for their break test.

The Witch Hunter may have
A horse (+10 points) which may have barding (+4 points)
He may choose 100 points worth of items from the common and empire magic lists or 100 points worth of items from the Witch Hunter Magic Item list.

Witch Hunter Magic Item list:
Holy Water: (45 points) Ranged weapon dose d6+1 S6 attacks against undead models.   No armour or regen saves allowed but wards can be taken as normal.   One use only.   Fires like a pistol.   Can be thrown as a charge reaction regardless of distance.   Can be thrown before the first round of combat or in a challenge.   Wounds caused count towards combat res.

Book of Unbinding (70 points) One use only.   The Witch Hunter may read the Great Spell of unbinding in the empire magic phase.   The spell is a bound item with a power level 8.   The foe may attempt to dispell it.   If it works every undead or demon unit with 18 inches of the priest must take 3 d6 S6 attacks with no armour or regen saves allowed.

The Mark of Office. (40 points)
The mark of Office shows the Witch Hunter for what he is.   It also gives him a 4+ ward save.


I'll add more items as I think of them but you get the idea