Warhammer-Empire.com

The General Archive => Empire Army Book 8th Edition => Lords Heroes and Special Characters => Topic started by: Pistol Pete on August 12, 2009, 02:00:29 AM

Title: Warrior Priests
Post by: Pistol Pete on August 12, 2009, 02:00:29 AM
I'd like to see:

Consecrated Weapons- The warrior priests weapons have been blessed by the church of Sigmar.  This blessing allows the WP's non-magical weapons to strike creatures normally immune to non-magical attacks.  All of the normal bonuses and penalties for the weapons apply.

It's minor boon (given that WP's are mediocre warriors), but it gives the WP a slight edge against demons, undead, and ethereal foes that he should have had from the beginning.  We all know that holy weapons affect supernatural creatures of the darkness, and what WP would take to the field without a specially consecrated weapon, especially against such a terrifying foe as a vampire?

I'd also like to see a WP spell that gave the unit magical attacks.
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Freman Bloodglaive on August 12, 2009, 08:02:27 AM
I like that.
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Spiney on August 12, 2009, 10:21:16 AM
I want a drastic overhaul allowing us to field priests of different cults and/or orders. Each could confer a different special rule on their unit, for example

Sigmar - hatred
Ulric - frenzy
Manann - Aquatic
Myrmidia - ASF
Verena - +1 AS
Shallya - regeneration
Morr - cause fear
Taal - ignore difficult terrain
Ranald - re-roll failed rolls to wound

Each could be costed differently to be added to the priest's cost, a bit like how the wood elf kindreds  work.

I guess a list of different prayers for each of the main  Empire deities is a little optimistic, but perhaps a generic list of prayers and one unique prayer for each deity would be possible? Also each cult option could open up different weapon options, for example Sigmarites could take a pistol (allowing us to field proper Witch Hunters), Ulricans could take cavalry hammers, Myrmidians could have full plate & lances if mounted etc.
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: iatroblast on August 12, 2009, 07:09:32 PM
Pistol Pete has a point! I'd like to see the "Consecrated Weapons" special rule.

I also like the idea of fielding priests from various cults! Following faithfully the creed of Sigmar could be boring :icon_razz:
'hate','frenzy','re-roll to wound','immune to fear','skirmishing' are some good rules to start with.
I.. just think that rules like 'regenaration' or 'aquatic' would be a little.. way too overexaggerated..  After all, we don't even know if these gods truly exist! (in the warhammer world I mean)
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Spiney on August 13, 2009, 01:13:09 PM
you think aquatic is overpowered? Its one of the most useless special rules in the entire game, I was trying to think of something Manannite that was as appropriate but actually useful but scored a big blank.

Regen for a priest of Shallya would be a bit powerful, as would ASF for the Myrmidian orders but they could be costed accordingly.

As for all the Empire gods actually existing I don't see your point. All of the ones I listed are worshiped at least as widely as Sigmar or Ulric, in fact most of them much more widely than Sigmar because no-one outside of the Empire even acknowledges his existence. Theres no reason to suggest they are any less real than any of the Chaos gods. I deliberately didn't include the minor gods like Khaine, Stromfels or Haendryk, only the major, more "official" cults.
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: iatroblast on August 13, 2009, 09:17:25 PM
You have a point.. 'aquatic' is one of the most useless rules in Warhammer.
But regeneration... well...

What I'm saying is: You chose very carefully the rules for each religious cult. They're nice rules.
But I have the impression that 'Sigmar','Ulric' and the other Empire gods are not real like the Chaos gods.
I've red somewhere that Chaos gods are 'creatures from an other dimension, suggesting they posses 'unknown powers', a feature that in the eyes of the people of the old world seems divine . On the other hand, 'Sigmar' is a historical figure who lived many-many years ago and probably....died. People loved him and then declared him 'god'. This doesn't mean they had right(!)
'Hating' enemies is not such a remarkable miracle (it's war after all).. but having 'regenaration', well... that's something!! :icon_razz:

If you ask me I would keep these rules
Sigmar - hatred
Manann - Aquatic
Verena - +1 AS
Taal - ignore difficult terrain
Ranald - re-roll failed rolls to wound
I would slightly change these rules
Ulric - frenzy with the official rules that Games Workshop suggests
Morr - cause fear with 'immune to fear' or 'immune to psychology'(Morr is the god of the other life! after all! you know what expects you...or you think you do)
and discard these ones
Myrmidia - ASF
Shallya - regeneration
because I think they're too 'remarkable' for -possibly- fake gods.

That's all and... I think you know more things for the game than I do, though I also like the idea of having more than one 'cult' in the army
(Something that till now GW doesn't seem to share no matter how much we 'argue' :-P :cry: )

-By the way- it's nice that I found your -exclusive- Empire forum, I wanted to share my thoughts and ideas for the specific army, without having to hear for 'rats' and 'lizards' :icon_razz: :icon_razz: It's cool :icon_razz: :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Spiney on August 13, 2009, 10:51:45 PM
The Myrmidian one is easy enough to explain, Myrmidia is the most martial of the old world gods and her worshipers are more accomplished soldiers than any others. We are supposed to believe that the entire high elf army has the ASF rule by virtue of its martial skill alone so I don't think this is too much of a stretch, it just represents extreme military discipline in Myrmidia's worshippers.

I agree that regeneration would constitute a miracle, but judging by the effect of the current edition's prayers I'd say it was GW's intention for us to consider the power of sigmar as "real". I mean the effects of Soulfire aren't going to happen just because the priest shouts loud enough are they?
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: iatroblast on August 13, 2009, 11:12:10 PM
The Myrmidian one is easy enough to explain, Myrmidia is the most martial of the old world gods and her worshipers are more accomplished soldiers than any others. We are supposed to believe that the entire high elf army has the ASF rule by virtue of its martial skill alone
Really?!  :icon_eek: I think that 'the entire high elf army has the ASF rule by virtue of its martial skill alone' is a 'stupid' explanation!! OMG! They're elves!! What's better explanation from that!! They're elves! :-P :icon_razz: What GW is thinking? :laugh:
Of course, this explanation also makes me having second thoughts about discarding or changing the 'ASF' rule you suggest for Myrmidian troops..

...the effects of Soulfire aren't going to happen just because the priest shouts loud enough are they?
:laugh: :laugh: -just LOL- :laugh: :laugh:
(But that's REALLY confusing! :icon_razz: Sigmar actually exists in the Warhammer world?? I'd like to think that 'soulfire' is only a rumor between Sigmarites, but then, Chaos invasion could be a rumor too!!??! :icon_lol: :icon_confused: Honestly, there is no good explanation for the effects of the so-called 'prayers of Sigmar')
Regenaration could be the effect of a Shallyan Pray though :icon_neutral:....
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Spiney on August 13, 2009, 11:17:36 PM
Ok, what ambient effect could a Shallyan priest have. Shallya is the goddess of mercy and healing, any ideas?
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: iatroblast on August 13, 2009, 11:52:05 PM
'mercy' huh? :?
What business has a healing-goddess to warfares :-P

As I see it... none ambient effect! Shallyan priestesses (enough with priests :icon_mrgreen:) can be unmatched healers, but..... war is just not their thing.... :icon_wink:
What do you think about that idea?
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Spiney on August 14, 2009, 12:15:11 AM
Fair enough, drop the priest of Shallya. The other 8 stand though
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: iatroblast on August 14, 2009, 12:39:43 AM
Oh god.. :icon_frown: ....that means I'm stuck with even more bald-men guiding my troops? :-P :cry: :-P :laugh:

Of course "the other 8 stand" but... if a priest(ess :icon_razz:) of Shallyan is an unmatched healer, then this could overcome the 'problem' that the unit doesn't benefit from an ambient effect (plus a Shallyan priest may worth less points. Just imagine that we have the option to summon the 'great warriors' called 'master engineers'!! :-P :-o I personally wouldn't mind a priest that has two attacks, magical equipment and great healing powers ---....please....I don't want MORE bald men!! :laugh: :-P :-P   I'm just kidding of course..I don't even know how the idea that Shallya has priestesses got into my mind in the first place!! :laugh:)


How come you (or we) have so many ideas and GW has only one (Sigmar)? :oops: that's the true mystery... :-)
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Spiney on August 14, 2009, 08:57:29 AM
I think you misunderstood me, I wasn't suggesting that the Shallyan priestess not have an ambient effect, I'm suggesting a Shallyan priestess not be an option. Reading up on the background Shallyans take a vow not to kill, which might make a career as a warrior priest somewhat difficult.

Also only sigmarite priests shave their heads, certainly ulricans don't and I can't imagine followers of Taal or Manann would either.
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: iatroblast on August 14, 2009, 08:28:02 PM
Quote
...Reading up on the background Shallyans take a vow not to kill...
Now you have your answer I guess  :icon_razz:  Too bad there is no way to use them though...
Quote
...only sigmarite priests shave their heads, certainly ulricans don't...
I know, I have a GW model resembling an Ulric priest and he's pretty cool :icon_cool:
I'd like to read about other priests and cults.. How they look and what powers they possess.. Do you have any 'link' to suggest..?
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: der Hurenwiebel on August 14, 2009, 10:28:27 PM
I think priests of morr should cause fear even in the undead, or perhaps only specifically the undead and demons.
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Red on August 15, 2009, 05:07:16 PM
Quote
Oh god.. :icon_frown: ....that means I'm stuck with even more bald-men guiding my troops? :-P :cry: :-P :laugh:

:icon_eek: I couldn't imagine my army without them 
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Spiney on August 15, 2009, 11:50:27 PM
I'd like to read about other priests and cults.. How they look and what powers they possess.. Do you have any 'link' to suggest..?

I don't know a good online source, my info comes from the Tome of Salvation expansion to WFRP it has detailed background for the Empire's main cults including priestly and templar orders as well as divine magic lores for each cult. They are designed for an RPG type setting and some of them wouldn't translate well into warhammer but others could work.
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: iatroblast on August 16, 2009, 07:58:01 PM
I see... :cry:
That's ok! Thanks anyway! :-) (though I'd really like to read about Templar orders)

Quote
:icon_eek: I couldn't imagine my army without them 
And the way I see it, no one can... :cry: ...at least for this edition!  :icon_razz: (Look who's complaining?!! :-P The guy having two Luthor Huss! Like the one wasn't enough! :icon_razz:)
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: eSBeN84 on September 01, 2009, 01:32:17 PM
Try  http://www.lexicanum.com/
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Rodman49 on September 03, 2009, 11:57:14 PM
Consecrated Weapons- The warrior priests weapons have been blessed by the church of Sigmar.  This blessing allows the WP's non-magical weapons to strike creatures normally immune to non-magical attacks.  All of the normal bonuses and penalties for the weapons apply.

It's minor boon (given that WP's are mediocre warriors), but it gives the WP a slight edge against demons, undead, and ethereal foes that he should have had from the beginning.  We all know that holy weapons affect supernatural creatures of the darkness, and what WP would take to the field without a specially consecrated weapon, especially against such a terrifying foe as a vampire?

How about we give this bad boy "Consecrated Weapons" to the Warrior Priest and the entire unit he is with?
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: shavixmir on September 06, 2009, 06:43:41 AM
I like the idea of holy weapons.
And I like the idea of different priests with different skills.

I do think some priests should allow certain units, and that certain priest-sorts can't be in the same army.

And I think there certainly is a place for a compassionate non-killing priestess in an army.
Maybe she can't kill, but she might be able to heal D3 wounds per combat round in the unit she's in (so, before CR, she rolls her D6 /2 and that many wounds are not lost in the unit).
I don't see any problem there. And since she can't kill, she doesn't need to be in the front row.

Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Lord 0 on September 08, 2009, 03:49:49 AM
Ok, what ambient effect could a Shallyan priest have. Shallya is the goddess of mercy and healing, any ideas?
How about a prayer that heals a character to full health? Or ignore the first wound suffered by a unit?
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: der Hurenwiebel on September 29, 2009, 07:59:43 PM
actually I really like shavixmir's idea here, a REMF (rear eschelon mater familias :icon_smile:) who can tip the balance of combat rez and even prolong a combat. Other prayers could be psyche hardening like, a prayer that confers calm in a panic test, an extra die for flight tests, (or a minus die for pursuit against the enemy) requiscat in pacem, undead and demons double instability effects in close combat.

yer thoughts?

Also what about the idea of a variable faith power, prayers go off on a base of for example 3 but with a D3 added to that +1 or minus one based on winning or losing a combat rez in the last turn.  This could require an opponent to throw more than one dispel die at a WP to dispel a prayer so maybe more than one prayer can get off in a game let alone turn. 

A variable prayer strength of 3-7 for standard WP's and potentially 4-8 for AL's and 5-9 for the GT
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Helborg on September 29, 2009, 08:56:51 PM
Ok, what ambient effect could a Shallyan priest have. Shallya is the goddess of mercy and healing, any ideas?
How about a prayer that heals a character to full health? Or ignore the first wound suffered by a unit?


Don't they already have the former, "Healing Hands" or something like that. But I do like the latter...


Sanj
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on September 30, 2009, 09:32:47 AM
I would like a special rule where the priest grants the blessed weapon thingy to the whole unit he is accompanying....I mean he can do all that blessing before battle and it is a stupid item for 15 points for HE.

Better would be magical flaming attacks for the unit he accompanies.
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Rodman49 on September 30, 2009, 04:42:37 PM
I would like a special rule where the priest grants the blessed weapon thingy to the whole unit he is accompanying....I mean he can do all that blessing before battle and it is a stupid item for 15 points for HE.

Better would be magical flaming attacks for the unit he accompanies.

Haha, look at this agreement.  I don't know about flaming also though.  I think that would be much cooler for like Bright Wizards or something you know?
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: der Hurenwiebel on September 30, 2009, 07:01:54 PM
How bout soul fire for the whole of the unit  :biggriin:

I mean if a warrior priest with a spittle flecked beard can't inspire soulfire in a whole unit of great swords he ain't worth much in my book.  And what about, imprecations of Hatred, on a D6 roll of 5-6 the WP reinspires hatred in both himself and any unit attached to him.  Done potentially as an alternative to prayers (buzy preaching instead of praying) or as well as prayers.

Your thoughts again?

Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Pistol Pete on October 05, 2009, 12:43:34 AM
Quote
Better would be magical flaming attacks for the unit he accompanies.

Empire definately needs some flame weapons, no doubt, to help combat all the regeneration cheese.

But I don't think having the WP give magical flaming attacks to the unit it is the answer.  I'd say this would better be reserved for a banner (god knows our current banners SUCK!).

We also need at least one magical flaming weapon.  Sword of power would be a good one to upgrade.

Flaming arrows would be a nice option for archers as well.

I do think that allowing the whole unit to have magical weapons would be a nice touch.  I think this should be at a modest points cost (10-15) and should not count against the priests magic item allotment.

Or it could be something like the Brettonians praying to the lady (maybe the unit must do nothing for one round whilst the priest says prayers for the whole unit).

Quote
Really?!   I think that 'the entire high elf army has the ASF rule by virtue of its martial skill alone' is a 'stupid' explanation!! OMG! They're elves!! What's better explanation from that!! They're elves!   What GW is thinking?

They weren't thinking.  They were watching LOTR, and thought: "Hey we should make warhammer elves strike first, because it looked cool in that one scene from Lord of the Rings!"

And thus, yet another retarded GW descision came to pass.
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Pistol Pete on October 05, 2009, 12:47:49 AM
Quote
you think aquatic is overpowered? Its one of the most useless special rules in the entire game

Aquatic is one of those situational rules.  It's largely worthless, but on a water heavy map, having troops that can move through it freely is incredibly powerful, if the other guy doesn't have the same ability.

I really HATE unbalanced rules like this, that are either too weak or too powerful depending on the game.
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: der Hurenwiebel on October 19, 2009, 10:51:23 PM
How bout call it alternatively the sword of Aqshy or blessed weapons of sigmar.

Either a straight flaming bonus of +1S +2 vs undead, demons, or flammable, like treemen and dryads. 

or something more like +2 all the time and can cast magic missiles like a staff.

Back to unit buffs or the unit buffing the priest,  How bout the idea that the rank bonus adds to the power level of the prayers, as well as having won or lost combat in the last turn +- 1. 

Priests of Morr really should cause fear in units which can be banished since that is their job, laying the dead to rest and settling restless spirits.  Perhaps terror even from an arch lector of Morr.  Witch hunters should be priests of Morr, or at least acolytes, or bailiffs.

Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: The Dice-Shaman on October 25, 2009, 06:37:26 AM
To get back on track:  I agree that WPs should have consecrated weapons.  Another idea I have depends on what the new editon core rule book does with magic.

I'd like it if the two power dice in the csting pool could be used to augment a WPs bound spells.  One dice per prayer and if it rolls a 1 the unworthy priest is not heard by his god.  Pretty simple and helps us balance against this insane escalation of magic and such known as 7th edition.

In most games, I prefer to solve my problems with lightning, being a Shaman and all.  Soo i'ma have to pray to the horned rat until 8th edition.
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Skyros on November 11, 2009, 03:26:10 PM
I'm generally happy with warrior priests (although I think they could stand to be cheaper).

I would like a WP with a magical weapon, however. And it's fluffy too!
Title: Re: Warrior Priests
Post by: Utsujin on February 01, 2010, 07:05:12 PM
Not to resurrect thread but with all the power creep going on.. what if the WP had 3 attacks standard instead of 2?  After seeing how lame the plague priest is from the skaven dex.. It would be be almost equivalent... Considering they're both priests... lol.  Then 4 attacks with 2 hand weapons.