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Author Topic: BUAs Vs Single Buildings  (Read 338 times)

Offline Michael Stockin

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BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« on: January 05, 2021, 07:21:38 PM »
I like BUAs myself as you can put all sorts of nice details on a base and texture it and have buildings and all that jazz.

However 3rd Edition uses individual buildings.

I have in my head some ideas for using BUAs and the rules around that, has anyone else here gone for BUAs instead?

Offline Warlord

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2021, 09:38:16 AM »
What does BUA stand for?
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Michael Stockin

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2021, 10:12:08 AM »
Built Up Area

Offline Michael Stockin

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2021, 10:51:58 AM »
So this model would be a BUA



And whilst only 5 actual buildings, the whole template/base/model is used to represent an entire town of say 200 dwellings.
Rather than try and move models into the actual buildings you would say they are in the BUA and use rules for that.

Maybe treating them like woods or using the siege rules.

Offline Warlord

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2021, 11:03:15 AM »
Interesting. Beautiful terrain - is it yours? BUA is 3rd edition only so I donít have much insight for you I am sorry!
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Michael Stockin

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2021, 11:05:47 AM »
Nah, my other gaming stuff is 15mm skirmish so don't use BUAs for that.

No, BUAs are a general wargames thing.
3rd uses individual buildings too.

Offline Von Zorn

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2021, 11:10:56 AM »
It's complicated further by the rulebooks usually giving you rules for fighting for buildings and they make it sound like you are literally fighting for that one building rather than a full village etc. Again, the scale of the battle is fairly vague for various reasons. I lean towards treating everything on the table as literally 1:1, even if as I said before my imaginings afterwards feature vaster armies.

Offline WarhammerWodner

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2021, 03:50:02 PM »
So this model would be a BUA



And whilst only 5 actual buildings, the whole template/base/model is used to represent an entire town of say 200 dwellings.
Rather than try and move models into the actual buildings you would say they are in the BUA and use rules for that.

Maybe treating them like woods or using the siege rules.

Hey Michael,

May I ask you how you did this model?
It looks pretty cool, I would like to create it, too.

Cheers, Wodner

Offline Michael Stockin

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2021, 09:18:59 AM »
Hi, that is not something I made.
All my old BUAs are no longer around.

Offline Michael Stockin

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2021, 02:05:40 PM »
Here is one I just made though.





I guess for 10mm the main advantage is being able to have fiddly scatter that would otherwise be a PITA to use.
At say 28mm, the barrels, apple tree, sign post and stuff would not be that fiddly, but trying to balance little signposts etc in 10mm is not something I relish, hence sticking it all one one base.


Offline Artobans Ghost

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2021, 03:41:50 PM »
Freakin awesome!
Mathi Alfblut Feb 4,2017 Simple, You gut the bastard with your sword, the viking way.
Questions?


GP Jan 4, 2020
Yes, even W:AoS.

Offline Michael Stockin

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2021, 04:34:54 PM »
Cheers, the hard part is the naming of it.

 :blush:

Offline Zygmund

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2021, 10:00:23 AM »
Beautiful piece of terrain!

As to the BUA question... Wouldn't it be easy to treat every building as a single building, even if they're on a single terrain sheet, or BUA? For example when looking at that awesome house above, I would see no problem in measuring from the walls of the house instead of the border of the terrain sheet. And units close to the house could easily clip the terrain sheet, as it was scenery only, without any game mechanics.

Does 3rd ed say anything about how many models (and what size) a building can take? I remember 6th or 7th ed had a rule for how many models can be in a building, how many models can shoot out of the building, and how many models can partake in assaulting a building. Quite skirmishy rules indeed, but fun and in some ways simulative.

Was it 6th ed that came with armor value and hit points for individual doors? So that you could actually break through a door. But that might have been in the Skirmish rules, not in the Battle rules. Pretty versatile set of rules, the 6th ed rulebook!  :-)

-Z
Forget the 6'x4' game, focus on the story beyond that. Because fantasy matters.

Offline Michael Stockin

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2021, 10:39:24 PM »
In the above case yes.
But when you have a base with several buildings on and the movement trays don't fit in the gaps between the buildings then it can get tricky.

Also the scale issue. Let us assume you have a building and a movement tray both the same size.
But the unit on the tray represents a regiment of 500 troops, even though they both occupy the same footprint there is no realistic way that small cottage takes up the area of a regiment of men.
So do we assume the cottage is in fact a BUA of a village and we just use a single building to represent the whole BUA.

Or as many people do, should we use smaller scale buildings so we can have what looks like a village taking up the same space as a regiment.

Hope that makes sense?

Offline Warlord

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2021, 01:58:10 AM »
Your concern makes sense. Its also why I dont abstract size of models or units to be more than they are, so I donít have to do the mental gymnastics.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Michael Stockin

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2021, 09:20:14 AM »
Your concern makes sense. Its also why I dont abstract size of models or units to be more than they are, so I donít have to do the mental gymnastics.

I am very much thinking that will be my approach too.

Offline Zygmund

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Re: BUAs Vs Single Buildings
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2021, 10:18:25 AM »
But when you have a base with several buildings on and the movement trays don't fit in the gaps between the buildings then it can get tricky.

Yes. That's when I would say the unit loses cohesion. In a block game, the unit would not enter. In Warhammer, you can pretty easily move individual models and play with them in skirmish manner. No rank bonuses, but otherwise the rules bend easily. (Think 6th ed skirmish.)

Quote
Also the scale issue. Let us assume you have a building and a movement tray both the same size.
But the unit on the tray represents a regiment of 500 troops, even though they both occupy the same footprint there is no realistic way that small cottage takes up the area of a regiment of men.
So do we assume the cottage is in fact a BUA of a village and we just use a single building to represent the whole BUA.

Personally, I think one model is roughly ten combatants. This has been stated as a design principle from the 3rd ed to the 6th ed, I think.

Then it logically follows that everything on the 28mm "scale" gaming table actually contains ten of what is present. So even a small cottage can be a hamlet, a farm, etc.

Or, if you imagine it's 1:1 scale, then each house is one house.

Both are fine.

Quote
Or as many people do, should we use smaller scale buildings so we can have what looks like a village taking up the same space as a regiment.

It all comes down to aesthetics. In wargames, buildings tend to be small and cramped compared to the figurines. Sometimes the "footprint" of the house is small but the height of the house (and the doors and windows) is in scale with the 28mm figurines, so that you get very thin and tall houses. It's also a fantasy art style. Makes good photos, both from the bird's eye and from the level of the 28mm eye. It's not very realistic, but works well enough.

Quote
Hope that makes sense?

Yes, all of it makes perfect sense. I guess it's your aesthetic taste and level of realism which must decide the issue in the end. I wouldn't have a problem either way (28mm buildings or smaller scale BUA's), as long as the interpretation/rules are stated beforehand. :)

-Z
Forget the 6'x4' game, focus on the story beyond that. Because fantasy matters.