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Warhammer-Empire Website => Welcome to the Empire - Guides, Help, Introductions, and Rules => WFB Empire Provinces => Topic started by: Midaski on May 05, 2007, 03:35:47 PM
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Averland is the southernmost province of the Empire, through which runs the Old Dwarf Road to the infamous Black Fire Pass.
Library Link: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/library/guide/averland.php
Current Ruler: Disputed
Capital:
Province Colours: Black and Yellow
Economy: Mainly based on agriculture.
Common Symbols:
Map Link: (Colour) http://www.fys.ku.dk/~blicher/Averland_v2.jpg
(Black & White) http://www.fys.ku.dk/~blicher/Averland_v2_bw.jpg
The Moot (Colour) http://www.fys.ku.dk/~blicher/Moot_v2.jpg
The Moot (Black & White) http://www.fys.ku.dk/~blicher/Moot_v2_bw.jpg
Notes:
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Hello to all my fellow Averlanders out there.
I thought I would tell you a little bit of the fluff regarding my army. Its basically The Grand Army of Averland, its based in Averheim the army is lead by General Lucas Reinhart.
Lucas Reinhart
Lucas was born the son of a farmer. Farming was not for Reinhart and every night after seeing to the animals he would lie under the stars dreaming about joining the army, being dressed up in a polished suite of the finest armour.
When he was old enough he left his farthers farm and joined the local army barrcks. Reinhart was made for the army, the first few years were not what he thought the army would be like. He would find himself on the battle field with a Halbeard and an old rusting helmet. Not the thing that dreams are made of . He stuck with it and started to get noticed by the higher ranks. After a couple of years he made Sergeant and had the chance to lead his own men into combat. Things were looking up.
The barrcks in Averheim were having an open day where members of the public could come in and look around. Many people signed up or sign their children up. Marius Leitdorf was the guest of honer and he wanted to do an inspection of his troops. The word got out, and the place turn to chaos troops getting into line and formation, Lucas lined up at the head of his unit standing to attention. As the inspection continued Lucas was getting nervous he'd never seen Marius Leitdorf close up. Marius got in front of Lucas and stopped, Lucas was thinking "why has he stopped at me" Marius said nothing, just staring at Lucas. 5 minutes passed then 10 still Marius stood there looking at him, then Marius broke has gaze and said "This man is to lead my Great Swords" everybody was stunned none more than Lucas. Was this just another of the Counts mad ideas or did he really see something in Lucas.
Lucas took his new post in the Counts Castle and he took his oath never to flee the battlefield. As the years passed Marius and Lucas became good friends. Lucas was one of Marius's closest allies. Marius made Lucas a honore member of the house of Leitdorf.
Then came the day that no Averlander would forget. Word had came from Black Fire Pass that a huge Whaaaaaggghh was coming. Marius sent a massager to Altdorf requesting help. When the army got to the pass they set camp and waited for the reinforcements from Altdorf to arrive. The morning of the battle and Lucas awoke feeling weak he looked in the mirror he was as pale as a ghost. He redyed himself for battle. When the Great Swords saw the state he was in they sent for the medics. Lucas was sent to the field hospital. Marius came to see his friend before the battle. Lucas broke down and apologized, Marius told his friend not worry. He would lead the Great Swords in person and that they would drink to their victory later that night. As the day passed all Lucas could do was lie their listening and thinking about the battle and his men. The battle was won but at a high price Averland had won its freedom but lost it's Elector Count. Lucas has never forgave himself for what happened to his friend and leader it should have been him in the face off not Marius.
With so many of the top Generals and nobels dead Lucas was Promoted to General of all Averland. He has sworn guard Averland and seat of the Elector until a replacement for Marius Leitdorf can be found.
Lucas Reinhart leading The Knights of the Blazing Sun
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x298/farmer1301/KnightsoftheBlazingSun.jpg)
Helblaster readying itself to fire
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x298/farmer1301/VolleyGun.jpg)
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You forgot to mention how Averland is the best province, other than that fairly good information :-D
I'll take some pics of my army tonight, maybe get some posted tommorrow. Its nothing too aweful special, but its always fun to look at a fully painted army anyways
Anyone else not particularlly artistic? I try, but trying to paint an eyeball is just so damn difficult. I'm getting a little better, but to do a "good" job, which is to say no shading or anything, takes me FOREVER. Sometimes the paint dries on the brush before it makes contact with the model...
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The Averlanders from Mordhiem or no longer in the online store. Did they stop producing them???
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Yes Brian - about 18 months ago now.
Not enough sales apparently - people were making human bands out of the Militia boxes.
Kislev, Averland and Ostlanders all went.
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I'm going to paint my Averländer white/yellow black/yellow and black/white/yellow. However my nobles get green/pink and blue/pink colours.
Small black yellow squares look good. TVI has black/yellow in all of his themes. The Averland is known to be rich I thought...
Black/yellow was the signal colour of free cities (Reichsstädte) in mediaeval Germany.
Marius Leitdorf's Brother leads the knightly order of Sigmar's Blood.
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Source: http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/content/view/94/52/1/1/ (http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/content/view/94/52/1/1/)
Military Colours: The traditional colours of Averland have always been black and yellow but as is the want of the nobility to be exclusive they tend to either add their own additions or ignore the pattern altogether and use completely different colours. This certainly holds true for the League of the Hammer, which favours blue and white diamond patterns, while the League of Weinberg, not wholly going against tradition, chooses red and yellow stripes. The League of the Vine, however, sticks rigidly to tradition as its troops wear the black and yellow.
Hence we got one of the biggest degree of freedom 'bout that issue
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Eh, I was always a fan of the good ol' black and yellow, hence: :-)
Or 8-)
Nice to see another Averlander anyways, look forward to army pics (someday I might actually take some of mine... its harder when I dont have teh internet a la home)
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I would like to add this link: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=17589.0 (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=17589.0)
Actually it seems there are three official knightly orders related to Averland.
1. The Oder of the Blazing Sun - which has a typical black/gold(=yellow) scheme.
2. The order of the black bear - eavy metal gave them a red/gold shield (Weinberg?)
3. The order of Sigmar's Blood - Artwork shows them with red/black sleeves like Carroburg's Greatswords
Has anyone any fluff about the Mountainguard and the Bearjeagers?
PS: Imperial forge mailed me once pictures of a great unit of b/y coloured knights (battle master knights) I think someone else has painted them. I will ask him by time if I can show the pics.
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Huh? There's no link between colour scheme and provincial allegiance, particularly when you're talking about knights, which do not wear provincial uniforms.
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Huh? There's no link between colour scheme and provincial allegiance, particularly when you're talking about knights, which do not wear provincial uniforms.
True in case of provincial allegiance. However I thought many players are interested in having knights which also fit in the army colour scheme. I think it is a lucky accident that the order of the blazing sun and the black bear fit exactly to the provincial scheme.
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Black/yellow was the signal colour of free cities (Reichsstädte) in mediaeval Germany.
@Guildenstern - Do you have any more info on the Free Cities colours etc? Would like to have some more info on this if you know any sources. Thinking Merchant Cavalry, that kind of thing for my Averland Army, but also for my WAB German Medieval army.
Thanks
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in some of the warhammer story books and the role play game they mention provincial chapters of the same knightly order. warhammer rules used to say that in multi player games that all knights of an order would group together for the game, and that sometimes they would face each other as opponents when provinces etc went to war against each other. so I am sure that knightly orders would be prone to disclose where they are from. steveb
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I have two questions. First of all, could anyone provide me with a picture of a model of a Knight of Sigmars blood, since I'm taking them in my army?
Next question: when was the battle where Marius Leitdorf fell? I'm reading Darkness Rising: the complete history of the storm of chaos, and it quotes what 'the elector of Averland' says at the conclave of light. Now since we do not have an elector count at the moment, this leaves me thinking: when was this battle?
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From GW Website: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/empire/painting/knights/gallery/default.htm
(http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/empire/painting/knights/gallery/images/sigmarsbloodartb.jpg)
The Knights of Sigmar's Blood have a long and proud history. Led by their Grand Master Hans Leitdorf, brother of the Elector Count of Averland, their ranks are filled with the men of noble houses across the Empire. Their selection process is considered extreme even among the other Orders, as each Knight in training must spend a year in study within the church where he is judged by the priests as to his worthiness.
I don't believe the story (In the rear of the Empire Codex) has a year that tells us when our elector count was slain by an Orc Warlord (who was later dispatched by Karl Franz himself). If you haven't red the fluff yet at the end of the codex, do so, it is well done. Leitdorf went out like an elector count should. Surrounded by his great swords, they went down fighting as they were awash in a sea of green.
Addressing the soldiers not matching province colors. Fluff dictates that actually Averlanders will wear more gaudy and boisterous uniforms rather than the colors of the province. Depending on the leader, units will dress however flamboyant they please, but the elector count and most generals usually uniform their soldiers in the provincial colors. State funded soldiers in my army will wear the provincial colors with a few flamboyant touches. Averland is a province of great wealth so you will see more polished armor and expensive clothing and weapons.
:closed-eyes:
Guess I should Introduce myself aswell, I am Karl Voss, Captain of the militia of Loningbruck - one of the largest towns next to our great capital of Averheim. Loningbruck is one of the largest producers of fine wines in the entire old world. It lies along the Upper Reik river not terribly far from the old dwarf road and only about a 100 miles SW of the capital itself. Thus, Loningbruck sees a lot of trade move through and is home to the more wealthy nobles and their estates. We boast a state funded garrison of about a hundred men of various specialties and can call up about 300 trained militiamen.
We stand ready to server the Emperor and our Elector Count (who I assume is now Hans Leitdorf?)
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We have no elector at the moment. Yes, I've read the book, and yes, I know how our elector died - it's the main reason why I chose Averland. But since it's not in the book, I ask you: when was this battle? Especially since, well, Darkness Rising says he was around during the SoC.
I had also noticed this picture and corresponding fluff, but I actually wanted to see a model.
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I'd love to give you a straight answer, but the NEB is less helpful than anything else. According to it, The Emperor was elected in 2502. In 2519, he marched to war to aid Averland against Orcs. But then it says that later Leitdorf caused trouble suppressing the Halfling uprising...of 2502. But that's the year of the Emperor's ascension and 17 years prior to the mention of Leitdorf's first request for military aid for the Emperor.
So. I'd say to assume that 2502 is supposed to be 2522, and it's just a typo...but SoC was last year, in 2521, and it's quite clear that Leitdorf was dead prior to the main campaign.
So. 2502 is a typo for the Halfling uprising (maybe it's 2520?), and Leitdorf died...somewhere between 2520 and 2521. Either way, the orc attack that resulted in Leitdorf's death bears no mention of having anything to do with the SoC, so it's logical to assume that it was prior to and unrelated. So Lietdorf probably died in late 2520 or very early 2521. I'd say Darkness Rising is just wrong.
Or the speaker was one of the competitors for the throne of Averland who just happened to beat out his competitors and make the trip to the Conclave, hoping that his presence would earn him Imperial recognition and assure his candidacy. And it hasn't. Yet.
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It literally says 'the Elector of Averland'. Damn you Phil Kelly!
So, it's a typo... I have a WD that provided me with some fluff about the Halfling Uprising, I'll look the date up when I'm back in Mol tomorrow.
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Who do you think will be the Elector in the stead of Marius? His brother Hans? Countess Ludmilla Alptraum was the Elector before him right? Marius died in 2520 in the Third Battle of Black Fire Pass and I figure Nemisis Crown took place in 2526 (correct me if i'm wrong). So Averland has had no Elector count for six years?
Also here is a site I found which combined dates in order onto a time line using various books and stories. Sadly it sheds no light on the Halfling Uprising date.
http://www.freewebs.com/kalevalahammer/timeline2500.htm
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I hope we don't get a new Elector in the first few years, since my fluff is based on Jakob von Breden's quest to give Hans Leitdorf his rightful position, and I don't want it all ruined because Gav Thorpe says 'say, we have some interesting fluff here... Let's remove it!'
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I found this one players Summarization of changes in Averland from WFRP v1 to v2.
Averland
Grand Countess Ludmilla von Alptraum was 77 years old at the start of The Enemy Within campaign. She lived long enough to send Feldmarschall Marius Leitdorf to assist the beleaguered Ostlander forces at the Battle of Wolfenburg in 2514. The old Countess died shortly after and was succeeded by her eldest daughter, Baroness Marlene. Unfortunately, Marlene passes away from the plague that ravaged the land after the war. Marlene’s only surviving child and heir, Helena, abdicated in favour of her husband, Marius Leitdorf. Elector Count Leitdorf did not rule long, having been killed by an Orc Warlord in battle near Black Fire Pass in 2520. His eldest unnamed son succeeded Marius.
Since I see no fluff even mentioning Marius having a son, so I agree with Jakob von Breden. Hans probably should be rightful elector and the title should be kept in the Leitdorf family. Lonigbruck, having close ties to the Leitdorf family, would honorably defend their right to Elector if the Alptraum family tries to take control of the Elector's position.
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His unnamed son, that made me laugh :biggriin:.
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Hi folks!
Been doing some "research" before finalizing my plans for an Avenlander army.
There are two lists of Averland towns that I'm familiar with at this point. The first is on this site: http://home16.inet.tele.dk/cobra/wfrp/averland/gazetter.htm (the home16 site), and the second is here: www.madalfred.darcore.net/gazetteers/Averland_v2.doc (the madalfred site).
First some info ...
There seems to be 7 towns listed on both sites, Agbeiten, Averheim, Hochsleben, Loningsbruck, Pfunzig, Streissen, and Wuppertal. The "home16" site has 9 other towns not on the "madalfred" site with Marlenburg being listed as the town that protects the Black Fire Pass (BFP), while the "madalfred" site lists 10 other towns not on the "home16" site with Grenzstadt protecting the BFP. Also, there is a town on the "madalfred" site called Obernzenn with a leader named Baron Hannes von Mecklenburg.
Additionally, the list on "home16" site seems to have been last updated on 4/28/00, and with the Warhammer date of 2522 I.C. listed on the "madalfred" site, I am hypothesizing the latter list is the newer one, and there seems to be a map associated with the "madalfred" site.
The questions ...
1. Does anyone have info on how these lists were developed?
2. Does anyone know of a map, if any, associated with the "home16" site?
3. Does anyone know why the two lists have so many differing towns on them?
4. Does anyone know why there is a difference between the two lists as to what the name of the town is that protects the BFP?
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I'm going to paint my Averländer white/yellow black/yellow and black/white/yellow. However my nobles get green/pink and blue/pink colours.
Small black yellow squares look good. TVI has black/yellow in all of his themes. The Averland is known to be rich I thought...
Black/yellow was the signal colour of free cities (Reichsstädte) in mediaeval Germany.
Marius Leitdorf's Brother leads the knightly order of Sigmar's Blood.
I'm planning on using black and yellow as the color scheme for my initial units. I'm considering calling it the Aver River Regiment (although I've seen reference to the Aver River Guard), and maybe they will be part of the League of the Vine. Also, the 1st battalion will have blue feathers and ribbons (in honor of the river), the 2nd battalion will have green (in honor of the vines), and the 3rd battalion will have purple (in honor of the grapes). :icon_cool:
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Source: http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/content/view/94/52/1/1/ (http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/content/view/94/52/1/1/)
Military Colours: The traditional colours of Averland have always been black and yellow but as is the want of the nobility to be exclusive they tend to either add their own additions or ignore the pattern altogether and use completely different colours. This certainly holds true for the League of the Hammer, which favours blue and white diamond patterns, while the League of Weinberg, not wholly going against tradition, chooses red and yellow stripes. The League of the Vine, however, sticks rigidly to tradition as its troops wear the black and yellow.
Hence we got one of the biggest degree of freedom 'bout that issue
It would be neat to eventually have units with these different color schemes available for use with my army. :icon_cool:
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An issue with any of these maps or listings are that they're not technically official.
However, they do bring about some inspiration which is always a positive. If you like elements of the sites, feel free to use them, but don't be frustrated if the evidence is contradictory. The best source at the moment for towns would be the reference book, Sigmar's Heirs. I don't have my copy with me at the moment, so I can't really help out on different town names, but I can tell you that Wuppertal, Loningbruck and Grenzstadt are towns/villages in Averland in the book.
Karl Voss of Averland has based his army in Loningbruck and Wyzer1 at Grenzstadt, guarding the pass.
Some of the best maps we have at the moment are provided in the first post by Midaski. It's subject to change, but right now, it's one of the best sources we've got for a map and it goes into decent detail on the locations of the towns, and they're very inclusive. The best maps I've seen for individual provinces, in fact.
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An issue with any of these maps or listings are that they're not technically official.
Figured this was the case. :icon_cool:
However, they do bring about some inspiration which is always a positive. If you like elements of the sites, feel free to use them, but don't be frustrated if the evidence is contradictory. The best source at the moment for towns would be the reference book, Sigmar's Heirs. I don't have my copy with me at the moment, so I can't really help out on different town names, but I can tell you that Wuppertal, Loningbruck and Grenzstadt are towns/villages in Averland in the book.
I've been looking around for reference books like Sigmar's Heirs, yet haven't found any yet. I checked out several hobby stores with no luck, but I'll keep looking.
Karl Voss of Averland has based his army in Loningbruck and Wyzer1 at Grenzstadt, guarding the pass.
Some of the best maps we have at the moment are provided in the first post by Midaski. It's subject to change, but right now, it's one of the best sources we've got for a map and it goes into decent detail on the locations of the towns, and they're very inclusive. The best maps I've seen for individual provinces, in fact.
Yes, the map provided by Midaski is the same one posted on the "madalfred" site. And since this is the only map of Averland that I know of at the moment, I'm beginning to sense that this is the map to use, for now. It seems to show most of the decent sized towns in the province being listed on the "Gazatteer Of Averland" (also posted on the "madalfred" site) associated with the map.
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I looked around at a few stores for Sigmar's Heirs. I did find it at one, but didn't feel like spending the money at that point. My wife went to a bookstore and ordered it there. You might be able to find it on ebay or somewhere else if you can't get it at a local store.
You'll really like it. It goes into greater depth (though not too deep for the most part) on towns populations, main sources of wealth, rulers, etc. A select few even have blurbs about them that go into greater detail, but it's only about 3 or 4 per province.
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I looked around at a few stores for Sigmar's Heirs. I did find it at one, but didn't feel like spending the money at that point. My wife went to a bookstore and ordered it there. You might be able to find it on ebay or somewhere else if you can't get it at a local store.
You'll really like it. It goes into greater depth (though not too deep for the most part) on towns populations, main sources of wealth, rulers, etc. A select few even have blurbs about them that go into greater detail, but it's only about 3 or 4 per province.
It will be interesting to see if the information matches what I've found on the web with the "Gazetteer of Averland".
It provides information regarding the main towns including size, ruler, population, wealth, source of wealth, garrisons and miltia, and sometimes other notes. Also, it gives a list of the villages underneath each community's jurisdiction, along with similar types of info shown for the towns. Plenty of source info for roleplaying, or WH Fantasy campaigning, or fluff writing when creating an army. :icon_cool:
I've been reading about quite a few other topics, as I continue planning for an Averlander army, and hope to share more eventually. I've used some of the posts on this thread as starting points for my exploration.
If anyone knows of other good source material, I'd be interested in knowing?
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Found an interesting source book today that provides alittle info on Averland ...
The book was called "WFRP Companion" put out by Black Industries in 2006, who has been printing some of GW's stuff it seems. There is a lengthy section inside regarding the river ways of the Empire, including a map with some towns listed on it. In Averland, the towns listed on the Aver River are Streissen and Averheim, with Pfungzig being listed on the Blue Reach and then further down Schramlen, Sigmarigen (these two are listed on the "home16" site, but not the "madalfred" site), and Bernloch (listed on both sites) as the river gets closer to the World's Edge Mountains. On the Upper Reik, Wuppertal and Lonigbruck are followed by Steingart (also not listed on either of the previously mentioned sites), Agbeiten, and Hochsleben, along with Grenzstadt guarding Black Fire Pass. Interestingly, the same map has the Moot covering the rest of the territory between the Aver Reach and Blue Reach rivers.
Haven't seen a copy of "Sigmar's Heirs" yet, although Black Industries does have several other publications that might provide helpful info on other Empire provinces, cities, towns and villages, too.
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I can't believe I missed these posts :icon_eek:
I've sought as much fluff about my Province as I possibly could, and I have a few observations:
1) The deep down dirty details in the fluff will vary from source to source. Most confusing is the website - CriticalHit.com - which has literally made up details to fit their own spin on the fluff. To keep things constant, I refer only to data from the Black Library, as it is more official then CriticalHit or the Averland Gazetteers that you have stumbled upon. This is not to say that Black Library doesn't have its flaws (See the debate over when Marius died), but it will keep everyone on a constant base/
2) Sigmar's heirs is a great companion that not only gives you physical details of the province, but also cultural. It has its own Gazetteer and insights into the various towns and villages, as well as Averheim.
3) The Mad Alfred maps are pretty close to accurate, so I attribute the errors on them to the lack of Google Maps in our Imperial Age.
If you have any questions, i'd be glad to talk about various Averlandic topics :icon_razz:
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I can't believe I missed these posts :icon_eek:
I've sought as much fluff about my Province as I possibly could, and I have a few observations:
1) The deep down dirty details in the fluff will vary from source to source. Most confusing is the website - CriticalHit.com - which has literally made up details to fit their own spin on the fluff. To keep things constant, I refer only to data from the Black Library, as it is more official then CriticalHit or the Averland Gazetteers that you have stumbled upon. This is not to say that Black Library doesn't have its flaws (See the debate over when Marius died), but it will keep everyone on a constant base/
Yes, this is my current view as well. My understanding is that the Black Library publications are approved by GW so it is as close to the source as possible without quite being there.
2) Sigmar's heirs is a great companion that not only gives you physical details of the province, but also cultural. It has its own Gazetteer and insights into the various towns and villages, as well as Averheim.
When I find one of these, I'm definitely going to pick up a copy.
3) The Mad Alfred maps are pretty close to accurate, so I attribute the errors on them to the lack of Google Maps in our Imperial Age.
:icon_lol:
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I got mine off Ebay. I "bought it now" for around ~16 dollars.
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=Sigmar%27s+Heirs&category0=
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Here's a question ...
I realize Averland's current banner is as pictured in Karl Voss's picture that he uses as an avatar. Has this always been the province's main symbol or have there been others at an earlier time in the history of WHF or GW :icon_question:
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http://www.warhammer-empire.com/library/guide/averland.php (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/library/guide/averland.php)
That flag was official at one point or another. Not sure of the specifics, though I believe it was in a White Dwarf a long while ago.
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I discovered Averland's flag while exploring the depths of Google Images. Searching Averland or something brought me to Games Workshop Spain site - which with a little exploring lead me to this page:
http://es.games-workshop.com/warhammer/imperio/adicional/colores_01.asp
Full size pic:
(http://es.games-workshop.com/warhammer/imperio/images/adicional/colores_02.jpg)
It contains flags for each province - which look pretty cool. I figured if it is on GW's site, it must be in Warhammer cannon, but that isn't always true. I like the flag so I stuck with it as my Avatar. It was actualy fun trying to find the flag page again on a website in a different language, see if you can get to it from here:
http://es.games-workshop.com/
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http://www.warhammer-empire.com/library/guide/averland.php (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/library/guide/averland.php)
That flag was official at one point or another. Not sure of the specifics, though I believe it was in a White Dwarf a long while ago.
Ah, yes, I vaguely recall seeing this previously. Good to be reminded. I remembered seeing something with a yellow sun, and I like the griffon inside a crown with the warhammer, too. Thanks :icon_exclaim:
Three new questions:
1. I'm wondering what the griffon inside the crown with the warhammer is all about :icon_question:
2. Anybody know how old the those are, and if there is anything further back than that :icon_question:
3. Does anyone know if there were any symbols used with the Mordheim Averlanders :icon_question:
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...
Full size pic:
(http://es.games-workshop.com/warhammer/imperio/images/adicional/colores_02.jpg)
...
White Dwarf 325 has an article on "Colors of the Empire" that provides the above banner for Averland, along with banners for the other provinces and city states in the Empire.
Also, I just noticed a reference to the symbol of a "blazing sun" in the write up for Averland in the same article, and reference being made to this having been brought over by "displaced nobles" moving from Solland after Gorbad Ironclaw's destruction of that area. The current banner is suppose to symbolize Averland's "sense of union with Karl Franz's Empire".
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I don't like these threads being tucked away on this forum. :icon_evil:
1. I'm wondering what the griffon inside the crown with the warhammer is all about :icon_question:
2. Anybody know how old the those are, and if there is anything further back than that :icon_question:
3. Does anyone know if there were any symbols used with the Mordheim Averlanders :icon_question:
1. It's on all the flags. It represents The Empire.
2. UK White Dwarf 146/147. The New Empire list that arrived in late 3rd edition (1991ish). There are no provincial flags from before that.
3. There were not.
That new banner looks awful.
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That new banner looks awful.
*Gasp* Are you refering to my Avatar? Do you wish the quarrel? I do bite my thumb at your sir!
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It looks good on you, needless to say. :icon_wink:
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Check out this cool "Google Maps" version of Averland:
http://www.malleus.dk/media/resources/averland.pdf
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I've never got around to painting any of my Empire army, which I've been collecting since the early 1990s, but this has actually turned out to be a good thing :icon_eek:! This is because I had never considered that my army would be an Averland force, but having read the background on this site, my army preferences and style fit with Averland more than any of the other provinces.
I really like Halberdiers and Handgunners, Knights of the Blazing Sun are my favourite Knightly order, I also like to field Crossbowmen, and I am a big fan of Tilea as well. As a result, Averland seems best suited to my army structure and playing style.
I realise I've come to this conclusion rather late in the day, but I hope you won't hold that against me :icon_biggrin:.
Now that I have decided which Empire province my army comes from, I actually might get around to painting some models one day.
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Welcome aboard! :::cheers:::
Glad to have another Averlander!
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Haven't checked this in so long, not since the Marienburg Crisis campaign started back in July, but ...
Welcome Irisado! :::cheers::: Hope your painting is coming along well. :icon_cool:
I've been slowly modeling what I'm calling the Aver River Regiment with the base units including spears (since Averland is known for it's pikes and half pikes), militia, crossbows, archers, handgunners, cannon., and pistoliers. For knights, I'll be having units for the Gold Lion, the Black Bear, and maybe even my own creation, the Knights of the Aver River. I'll likley be adding more, too.
I'm also creating background info for where these soldiers are based out of, which will be at a town and it's immediate surroundings that I'm creating for the area north of Bieswang just below the Aver River, and tucked in between the woods to the west, the Moot to the East, and incorporating the hills to the south. The main town will have a few villages under its jurisdiction as well. I've also begun to review information regarding Stirland, and discovered there is a town called Scheibbs with a ferry that seems to cross the Aver River right where I'll be likely placing this town, which I've not finalized a name for yet.
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Thanks for the welcome!
Sadly, I haven't painted a single model, and it's not looking like I'm going to anytime soon, since I have returned to university after a four year gap to study a Masters. The things I do to get out of painting models :laugh:.
I'm very interested in background, so I look forward to reading more about that as you get more involved with your project.
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If one reads the Brush and Palette these days one might get the impression of Averland's dominance over every other part of the Empire.
Gut gemacht Averländer, well done.
But we wouldn't be good Averlanders if we now lean back and let those Reiklanders catch up with us.
Therefore I suggest we do a 'Averland's armies' thread where every player posts pictures of their Averland units.
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If one reads the Brush and Palette these days one might get the impression of Averland's dominance over every other part of the Empire.
Gut gemacht Averländer, well done.
But we wouldn't be good Averlanders if we now lean back and let those Reiklanders catch up with us.
Therefore I suggest we do a 'Averland's armies' thread where every player posts pictures of their Averland units.
I was thinking the same thing earlier today.
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Good idea. I'd post mine.
I recently repainted my Marius Leitdorf model, and he is definitely not dead. Not even slightly.
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The deed is done!
All Averlanders - if you have an Averland themed model(s) you'd like to share, post it up in this thread:
http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=25323.0
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OOOOH - I am so tempted to merge it with this one ..............
:engel:
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I'll un-merge it if you do.
No one ever looks at this part of the forum!
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I know they were a pretty dull paintjob, but those spearmen I loaned Obi at the Eurobash were Averlanders, and I have mentioned they are one of my Empire armies ................
I'm just not going to own up around Karl and Co.
:engel:
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You've got huge numbers of those Mordheim Averlanders too. I was very tempted to steal them... :icon_smile:
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The unmade ones came out a week or so ago and I washed them ready to put them on slotta bases and I broke the halberd off one of them - one of the forward pointing ones - I need to do some fancy repair work on it.
I think I have about 14 in total - I bought one of each of 4 models - Captain with sword and pistol, the swordsman, and the two versions of the halberd - angled forward and at port arms.
I then picked up an ebay auction about two years ago and got another 10 mixed models. I have trimmed a couple of the halberds to make them spears as they do make excellent unit champs.
The swords guys go quite well with the old Ed.5 greatswords.
They are quite 'big' - I think it is the large hats and feathers, and so they look a bit strange if you try to mix them with normal troopers.
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EDIT- solved it.
I'm not to sharp on the older mordheim models.
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water, vines and grapes...thats a really good idea actually.
Its hard to keep up with all the fluff changing so much, GW needs to bring out a book for each province and clear all this stuff up so we can go from there.
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Yes, I haven't fully implemented my river, grapes, and vines idea yet, but might still do it. Its more than likely a longer term goal than what I first thought.
Interesting idea regarding books for the various counties/provinces. Not sure they could pull it off because they'd need enough interest/buyers to make the effort worth it. Maybe one book with general fluff guidelines, yet sometimes I like the nebulousness of the current fluff becasue it allows for flexibility in creating one's own in a fantasy environment.
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hmm goodpoint, maybe a book like you said "Provinces of the empire" or something, give us a bit more genuine fluff to play with.
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Lengenfeld
Lengenfeld is a large rural town on the border or Averland, east of Averheim and south-west of Nuln. Lengenfeld has a large population and most of these citizens either belong to the Lengenfeld provincial army or have had some form of military training. Lengenfeld is a rich and prosperous town and much of its wealth comes from farming. The entire town is surrounded by miles of grassland and farmland, which around a third of the population work on and harvest. It is because of this that Lengenfeld has been able to prosper over the years and the population has more then doubled within the last century. If a citizen of Lengenfeld is not a farmer or soldier then they make up the other roughly quarter of the population that work within the city itself including merchants, proprietors, fletchers, armourers and storeowners. Due to the fact that Lengenfeld lies on the shores of the Aver, some of the townsfolk are fishermen and lots of the towns provisions are stocked daily with the fish caught from the Aver.
Lengenfeld lies roughly half way between Averheim and Nuln, so a lot of trade vessels passing between these two cities stop at Lengenfeld and rest. Many travelling merchants and ships crew stay at the famous Drunken’ Halfling Inn, owned and run by two halfling brothers Smithe and Biffe. It is because of these trade ships that a small amount of black powder weapons and artillery are unloaded at Lengenfeld and traded for food and supplies to last the rest of the journey along the Aver.
Besides the Cannons and Handguns of Nuln, the Armies of Lengenfeld don’t widely use black powder weapons, only the highest ranking officers and elite regiments are given access to these weapons and the rest of the army make use of the sword and shield, the spear and the crossbow.
Lengenfelds elite forces consist of ‘The Ruyters’ skilled horsemen that have mastered the skill of firing black powder weapons on horseback. The Ruyters weapon of choice is the pistol and usually carry a pair, commonly known as a brace of them. Though it is highly unlikely , some Ruyters may carry more sophisticated firearms such as the repeater pistol or the repeater handgun, but these deadly weapons are very hard to come by and the Ruyters only have a small number of these weapons in their possession.
The Greatswordsmen are the elite infantry of Lengenfeld and to be accepted into a regiment of Greatswordsmen is to reach the highest honour a soldier can reach in Lengenfeld…besides Captain or General. These men are the personal retinue to Captain Karl GrÜber and never leave his side. In times of war, The Greatswordsmen serve as Captain GrÜber’s personal body guard and will fight to the death for their captain. In times of peace they guard the captains personal quarters and guard special occasions such as castle feast’s and celebrations.
Sigmar has a very strong presence in Lengenfeld and there are many shrines and churches within the town. When the army of Lengenfeld marches to war, Aurich Werden, will always march along with it, when General Struecker von Lengenfeld is absent from the battlefield, Captain GrÜber will serve as the armies commander and Aurich will take up the role of second in command, and lead a section of the army. Before a battle, Aurich will pray to Sigmar and bless the army before the fighting begins
Captain GrÜber is a mighty warrior and leader. He started out as a spearmen and after fighting in several small encounters against Beastmen herds north of Averheim and Greenskin warbands harassing small settlements south of black fire pass, and at the age of twenty one he earned the rank of Sergeant. For another Decade GrÜber led his spearmen unit in many minor battles. It was when the Greenskin’s poured over Blackfire Pass that the true test of the Lengenfeld armies courage and skill would be witnessed. Envoys from Averheim travelled to all the provinces in Averland and to the emperor in Altdorf at the request of the Elector Count of that time Marius Leitdorf. The Army of Lengenfeld Mustered and marched to war. Thousands of Averlanders gathered at the base of the pass and a sea of yellow and black uniforms, shining swords and spearheads glistened in the morning sunshine. As the Greenskin Horde fell upon the defenders of Averland Seargent GrÜbers Spearmen were one of the first Regiments to receive the charge, the fighting lasted many hours and the dead piled high, The Emperor Karl Franz Arrived to see a gory battlefield of Thousands of dead orc’s and men strewn as far as the eye could see, and after the combined armies of Reikland and Averland repelled the greenskins and drove them back over the pass a tragedy was yet to come to light.
Elector Count Marius Leitdorf had been killed in the fighting along with General Krueger Smicht of Lengenfeld. Many men lost their lives that day though Seargent GrÜber was not one of them. He returned to Lengenfeld as a hero and was given the honour of becoming a Greatswordsmen. Captain Struecker was Promoted to General and the Lengenfeld Army functioned normally without a captain, Aurich Werden, Warrior Priest of Sigmar filled the role of Captain if one was ever needed.
Though when the threat of Chaos grew once more in the north, and the storm of Chaos begin, GrÜber was promoted to Captain. General Struecker von Lengenfeld, Captain Karl GrÜber and Aurich Werden all marched north at the head of the Lengenfeld Provincial Army along with the combined armies of Averland, the Grand Army of Averhiem and the Army of Nuln to Altdorf and with one combined force of the Southern and Eastern Provinces Marching under the Imperial Banner and under the command of Emperor Karl Franz, the Army was able to relieve the siege of Middenhiem and the chaos horde was broken, The army of Lengenfeld returned to Averland and continues to defend Lengenfeld and Averland to this day.
Recorded MMDXXII - 2522
Scholar Phintius Franzis.
Library of Lengenfeld
hope you enjoyed reading it, thankyou all.
Struecker :ph34r:
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Did you write all that? Nicely done!
I'd recommend checking out Sigmar's Heirs:
http://www.amazon.com/Sigmars-Heirs-Warhammer-Fantasy-Roleplaying/dp/1844162656
It's got tons of stuff in it like that and cultural information. Good read.
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Hi Streucker,
That's some good stuff there, yet it might have been better placed in the Imperial Office. This tends to be an area for discussion of the province rather then everyone's stories. Perhaps Midaski or Warlord can move it for you (maybe even with Karl's post, too), and they can feel free to delete my post here entirely as well.
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(http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/2511/littletank.jpg)
I like your story almost as much as I like my little tank.
Seriously, great story, but the name Grüber made me laugh so hard I started crying...
Great story nonetheless! Honour and bravery, as befits a true Averlander!
Blackfire Pass? Our characters might have met! :biggriin:
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Hi Streucker,
That's some good stuff there, yet it might have been better placed in the Imperial Office. This tends to be an area for discussion of the province rather then everyone's stories. Perhaps Midaski or Warlord can move it for you (maybe even with Karl's post, too), and they can feel free to delete my post here entirely as well.
I think it can fit here too - to be honest, I actually moved it here from the Electors... though IO may have been a better choice...
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I wouldn't worry to much. Consider this place to be the default home for all things Averland
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I wouldn't worry to much. Consider this place to be the default home for all things Averland
Exactly my thoughts.
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thanks everyone, yes sorry i didnt really know where to put it :?, well i wrote it all when i was at work oneday because i needed to write up some fluff and where better to do that then work aye?
I like your story almost as much as I like my little tank.
Seriously, great story, but the name Grüber made me laugh so hard I started crying...
Great story nonetheless! Honour and bravery, as befits a true Averlander!
Blackfire Pass? Our characters might have met!
hahahahahahahahahha that picture made me laugh so much, i showed it to my brother and he went nuts lol :laugh:. I got the name Gruber from Die Hard 1 lol! Yer blackfire pass, i dint really know how to incorporate my guys into the SoC so i just made it blackfire pass instead, whos your character and where did he fight? i'd love to iinclude him in the fluff somewhere.
Did you write all that? Nicely done!
thankyou! yes i wrote it all, except microsoft spell check helped me alot. touche Microsoft :::cheers:::
Hi Streucker,
That's some good stuff there, yet it might have been better placed in the Imperial Office. This tends to be an area for discussion of the province rather then everyone's stories. Perhaps Midaski or Warlord can move it for you (maybe even with Karl's post, too), and they can feel free to delete my post here entirely as well.
thanks, and yeh sorry bout that, i didnt really know about the imperial office to much? :|
thankyou all for your comments.
Struecker :ph34r:
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Struecker von Lengenfeld: I really like your army background, especially how you've tied it into the culture of Averland, and a big historical battle. It all has a very professional feel, and I think that the story flows very well. An excellent piece of writing overall!
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My general is Jakob Von Breden, Captain in the State Army of Averland. In the Battle of Blackfire Pass, he led his pikemen deep into the ranks of the enemy army. They were followed by regiments of swordsmen who handily took advantage of the confusion caused in the greenskins to pick them off. He then climbed a horse that somehow was wandering the battlefield on his own and fought his way to the Elector Count and his greatswords. He charged the Orc warlord and drove his sword deep into its green skin, allowing the knocked-down count to get up. He was then knocked of his horse and lost consciousness.
He also fought in the Storm of Chaos, but he is only remembered as one of the millions of soldiers who faced the massive hordes of the Lord of the End Times.
I need to start working on my fluff again... It's been too long.
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Karl Voss was also at the battle of black fire pass where Leitdorf fell (much of Averland's army was there) but he was still a young man in the middle of a sword regiment. Most of the older veterans were killed and Voss stepped up and held the regiment together as the Reiksguard knights charged into the battle.
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Stirland was here, The Moot is ours! :icon_evil:
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That made sense...
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... to a Stirlander. :icon_wink:
I was just thinking, the area where many of my Averland characters are from, up on the Aver River just to the west of the Moot, is directly across from Stirland. Hmmm ... maybe we need to call out the troops.
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Stirlanders. They have their own backwoods language don't they?
Don't forget we've got one of the greatest fortresses in the Old World right on their border :wink:
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At least we can pick a leader (me :closed-eyes: )
p.s. death to halflings
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Found these Warcry cards on ebay. Got a chuckle, then realized how much I miss the Mad Count of Averland :closed-eyes:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/JustaGuy778/WCWA182.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/JustaGuy778/WCWA330.jpg)
Maybe Hans Leitdorf can take over? I mean he is a Grand Master and all, he has the experience :P
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At least we can pick a leader (me :closed-eyes: )
Patience is a virtue in Averland. :icon_wink:
p.s. death to halflings
Killing halflings has been outlawed.
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Found these Warcry cards on ebay. Got a chuckle, then realized how much I miss the Mad Count of Averland :closed-eyes:
Indeed, what a great combat tactic he used - a furious charge!
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Aye. Hans Leitdorf sounds like he makes a good Grand Master. The quote on the card "The Leitdorf Maneuver" - is that from anywhere? Fluff from a book? I think it was probably just made up, like most quotes there, but maybe someone recognizes it.
Stupid GW killing off Marius. I thinking about joining in with Rufus and just believe he is not dead and exclude that poorly written fluff.
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Hans could be one idea for the new Elector Count. It will be interesting to see how GW develops this.
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Hans could be one idea for the new Elector Count. It will be interesting to see how GW develops this.
C'mon we're talking about GW here. You mean if they develop this. :-P
We're more likely to see them just invent some lame story and replace him outside of continuity - or never do it at all. There could be a real interesting story with the Alptraums vs the Leitdorfs but that would require good fluff writers.
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My meaning about development was refering to the generation of a new Elector Count for Averland, not if it was going to be Hans or not. :icon_wink:
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Oh I know. I do however jump at any opportunity to bash GW for leaving me hanging on this issue :-D
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Hans Leitdorf doesn't seem like too bad a replacement to me, especially if his specialist tactics revolve around cavalry, as this would fit quite well with background of Averland in my opinion.
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If I recall, Hans is also in commmand of the Knight's of Sigmar's Blood at the moment. It would be interesting to see this story develop as well. Besides, currently this knightly order is the only one shown on the GW website without a model painted and only a picture. I actually like the artist's rendering of the order, and although I'm not big into the whole Sigmar thing, I could see myself painting at least a handful of knights to represent them on the table top anyway. Perhaps this will all be resolved closer to when they decide to put out another addition of the rules and/or Empire book, and decide to provide some new knights.
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Oh I know. I do however jump at any opportunity to bash GW for leaving me hanging on this issue :-D
I actually like it. Marius Leitdorf was a very nice character, but it gives us some interesting options and GW might develop it further into a very interesting background. Might.
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What would be really interesting is for someone to create a campaign revolving around the different characters who might be vieing for the Elector seat in Averland, and then have an internal war that brings out folks from over their borders, from Wissenland, Nuln, Reikland, Stirland, Talabecland, Ostermark, taking sides with the various Averlandic factions. Heck, their could be folks traveling from the other provinces coming to take sides as well. The winner of the campaign would then have their main character appointed as Averland's new Elector Count.
Hmmm ... so who else, besides Hans, might be in the running? Anyone know who the heir is of the Elector Count previous to Marius? I realize Marius' wife Helena came from that line, but did they have a child?
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Off course not, because then he'd become the Elector Count, not?
In a story I've been writing for over a year now (which is in Dutch, sorry!) the main antagonist is named Wilfried Toddvoller. He has been appointed by the Emperor to investigate the political climate in Averland and find a nobleman worthy for the position of Elector Count. This nobleman would receive support from the throne. However, so far Toddvoller has only worked to further his own ambitions. It seems as if he's out for the position himself.
Thought I'd mention it, it might be usable in this campaign should it ever be hosted.
For other factions it's probably best to come up with some characters that each focus on different aspects of life, such as your own general (I'm thinking about the near-exclusion of cavalry and a focus on wine in your fluff). The Moot should play quite a large role, too, demanding compensation for Leitdorf's disastrous Moot campaign.
EDIT: The question is: is Hans Leitdorf actually interested in the title? Is it even legal (I can see some law against it)? And if so, how come he hasn't taken it up yet?
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Well he hasn't taken it up yet because GW has been to lazy to write anything about the subject for the past two editions. Hans Leitdorf seems to be the most likely. According to the The Enemy Within campaign, when Magnus the Pious died the kingdom was supposed to pass to his brother, Gunther von Bildhofen, even though it didn't due to a complex story. So there is historical precedent.
In Sigmar's Heirs, it says that the Leitdorfs seized power through genius unconventional means. I don't recall exactly what it says (someone go see), but if I remember correctly it was brilliant. Before the Leitdorfs the Alptraum family (which means Nightmare in German). From what I have read, the Alptraums were a tough and cruel ruling family. This timeline I found that cites it sources states the following of the Alptraums:
2502- Riots in Averland (town of Streissen) from shortage of food. Elector Countess Ludmilla Alptraum resolves this brutally.
The only other ruler of Averland mentioned is Count Grunwald:
2433- Emperor Wilhelm takes military action against Elector Gunnwald of Averland in the case of the Pudding Tax Revolt.
Check out the timeline:
2400-2499 - http://www.freewebs.com/kalevalahammer/timeline24002499.htm
2500-present - http://www.freewebs.com/kalevalahammer/timeline2500.htm
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Off course not, because then he'd become the Elector Count, not?
Hmmm ... not if a claim was made that the child was illigitimate. Maybe Helena didn't have a desire for the seat before when she let Marius take it instead (maybe he convinced her), but perhaps she has had a falling out with the child's real father, and never really liked Hans anyway, and therefore has other ideas now. Perhaps the father of the illigitimate child wants to serve as regent because the child is too young, but even Hans objects to this. So we already have at least three factions ... Helena, the illigitimate child's father, and Hans. And if we want to include other factions ... there might be a noble who is secretly a vampire count deciding he wanted a shot at the seat, or perhaps an Orc leader who decides the time is ripe to lead a waaagh out of the mountains to raid the country side. :icon_exclaim:
(Hmmm ... if this is set up, it could be an event to run for the summer, if GW doesn't come up with something.)
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Are you running off the details from the wikipedia article?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Empire_(Warhammer)#Averland
Be careful, as some of the details are contaminated by the website CriticalHit.com - where 90% of the data is simply made up. There are indeed the two families (Leitdorfs and the Alptraums). I am unsure about the illegitimate child story.
I read in Sigmar's Heirs that the Count of Streissen is Kastor Leitdorf. Marius is Kastor's Uncle, so I assume this would make him Hans Leitdorf's son? Maybe Marius has other brothers or something, but we have another character in the play.
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I just finished reading those time lines you posted, Karl. Thank you. I saw those once before, but didn't read them as fully as I did this time. From reading those time lines, it seems that GW doesn't really keep much of a list of various Elector Counts. Most of it is rather sketchy, which is ok with me. Perhaps this means we will never really know what becomes of this situation, and thus plenty of reason to make one up as part of a campaign event.
And no, I haven't seen wikipedias approach to this, but I'll read the link you posted next. Although, I believe there was a post some where on this Averland thread that discussed the possibility of a child, but the concept of it being illegitimate I just made up.
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Oh my bad, I thought you read it somewhere. It is true however, this would make a good story/campaign/side-story. Maybe GW will resolve this in the summer with a global campaign like Nemisis Crown. You'd find Karl Voss with the Leitdorf family.
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I just read the blip on wikipedia link you provided, but no mention of a child. I also found that other post I was recalling, and it was a quote from WFRP's newest edition that you provided regarding an "eldest unnamed son" succeeding Marius. This means I might need to revise the original idea.
Also, I noticed from those time lines that Marius died in 2520, the Storm of Chaos occured in 2522 followed by what was called the Dark Years from 2523 to 2526, and the last of which is when the Nemisis Crown event occurs. Then the timelines show 2527 and 2528 with nothing much listed yet. This leads me to another item to contemplate ... when to set something like this on the Imperial calendar.
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Jakob von Breden, too, would join Hans Leitdorf. My fingers are itching, I'd love to contribute to this campaign should it ever develop further (and this time I wouldn't quit halfway through like last summer... :dry: :blush:).
I actually despise the mentioning of the child. At least give it a name!
Kastor Leitdorf sounds very interesting to me. He would oppose the Alptraums quite radically due to their oppression of his town. However, would he be a faction in his own right, or would he join his father?
Speaking of which, is Hans Leitdorf actually interested in the title? Remember that he leads an entire order of Sigmarite templars. His faith and his knightly duties might be more important to him than political ambitions. Off course, he would play a role in the civil war, if only to put an end to the infighting and provide peace and stability. What are your thoughts?
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I imagine that there would be quite a number of Averlanders that would join the supporters of a Leitdorf faction, so perhaps having some descension within the ranks of the Leitdorf family as part of the background story, might cause folks to not all pick the same side. Besides, with Helena and Marius' eldest son entering the picture, if the background spoke of a rift between Hans and Helena, then this creates some tension for at least two factions, some fighting for Helena and Marius' child, and Hans wanting to at least rule until the eldest child is old enough. Perhaps there is still a way to work in the idea of illegitamacy, since there is talk of the child being the eldest, and perhaps one faction could be fighting for the right of the second child to rule instead. And then there is the idea of looking up all that background info that I believe is on the madalfred site regarding the names of the various nobles in charge of the various Averlandic towns, and see what connections might be found or worked out there.
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I imagine that there would be quite a number of Averlanders that would join the supporters of a Leitdorf faction, so perhaps having some descension within the ranks of the Leitdorf family as part of the background story, might cause folks to not all pick the same side.
True. However, a father-son strife doesn't fit for me. IMHO it's better to let Kastor Leitdorf be the son of another Leitdorf brother.
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Anyone have Sigmar's Heirs around? Someone check out the gazetteer in the averland section for the names of nobles and such. Turns out that Kastor Leitdorf was created by Alfred Nunez in some fiction works. It even conflicts with itself. In one Gazetteer he wrote, Kastor was the count of the Sigmarite stronghold of Wuppertal, but in his Elementalism 2 (http://www.scribd.com/doc/5243407/Elementalism2) he was Count of Striessen.
I would go with whatever Sigmar's Heirs lists. Unless we have other sources.
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I have downloaded it (temporarily, I might buy it if it's good) and have just started reading. I'll have a look at the Averland section right now.
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Nunez lists these Leitdorfs in power in his Gazetteer:
GRENZSTADT - Count Jens Leitdorf
HEIDECK - Countess Magda Leitdorf
STREISSEN- Bailiff Franz Döbreiner for Leitdorf family
WUPPERTAL- Count Kastor Leitdorf
I might be wrong about Kastor Leitdorf, I don't have my Sigmar's Heirs sourcebook to fact check but I saw it referenced in another writing as the source.
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I imagine that there would be quite a number of Averlanders that would join the supporters of a Leitdorf faction, so perhaps having some descension within the ranks of the Leitdorf family as part of the background story, might cause folks to not all pick the same side.
True. However, a father-son strife doesn't fit for me. IMHO it's better to let Kastor Leitdorf be the son of another Leitdorf brother.
I agree, and wasn't proposing such. It seems that Karl only mentioned that Marius was Kastor's Uncle according to Sigmar's Heirs.
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Anyone have Sigmar's Heirs around? Someone check out the gazetteer in the averland section for the names of nobles and such. Turns out that Kastor Leitdorf was created by Alfred Nunez in some fiction works. It even conflicts with itself. In one Gazetteer he wrote, Kastor was the count of the Sigmarite stronghold of Wuppertal, but in his Elementalism 2 (http://www.scribd.com/doc/5243407/Elementalism2) he was Count of Striessen.
I would go with whatever Sigmar's Heirs lists. Unless we have other sources.
I still need to get a copy of Sigmar's Heirs, and yes, whatever lists are in this could be the ones to use.
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Sorting out the next Elector Count of Averland would be a good campaign story, and I like the ideas that you have all come up with so far.
It is patently ridiculous in my view that the lack of an Elector Count in one of the Empire's wealthiest provinces hasn't been addressed by now, as instability in the Empire is not something that Karl Franz would want to encourage. If GW, therefore, don't address this issue (which they probably won't), then I feel that we should resolve it ourselves.
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Killing off an elector was a nice move by GW. It showed they were moving the timeline. The problem is not resolving it. That and completely changing the name of Nordland's elector without giving any explanation...
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Killing off an elector was a nice move by GW. It showed they were moving the timeline. The problem is not resolving it. That and completely changing the name of Nordland's elector without giving any explanation...
You're just saying that because you want GW to kill off your elector :-P
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They are ignoring my phone calls and blocking my e-mails.
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I double checked the newest Empire Army book and it clearly uses the word "Disputed", while at the same time the last date given is for 2522. So ... with Marius' death in 2520, no matter who, if any, might have held the title immediately following his death, it could be fair to say the seat is disputed as of 2522. Also, the madalfred site lists Averheim as "Contested between the Alptraums and Leitdorfs" on his Gazeteer listed for 2522.
The first question is whether or not it remains in dispute after 2523 (which is the start of the timeline previously given on this thread that said 2523 to 2526 are considered the "Dark Years" in the Empire)?
It could be fitting to set a campaign during that time period to determine who the new Averland Elector Count is, and I'm curious if there is any other fluff that refers to this "Dark Years" period?
Also, the Nemisis Crown event is said to occur in 2526, and I'm wondering if there was ever any mention during this event of who the Averland Elector Count was at this point?
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There is an infamous typo in Sigmar's Heirs that talks about the date of Marius's death. Apparently two numbers were switched or something, because every other source dates the battle against the orcs in the Third Battle of Blackfire Pass where Marius was slain all the same except Sigmar's heirs. It's only wrong in that one spot in the book so it's clearly a typo.
I just think that span of time is GW slacking. The fluff is so shotty as to who is running the show and who the heirs are. If I had to reason it out I know that the Leitdorfs are probably doing some infighting and the Alptraums are trying to seize power back from them.
An interesting story would be if Marius had no sons, or one that is not of age, or some other reason that would pass legit succession to his brother Hans Leitdorf. Hans could refuse to take the crown of Averland on the grounds he is a grand master and holy Templar of Sigmar (his order is extremely devout), so he might hand it off to another heir. The rest of the fighting could be between family members, powerful allies, the alptraum family, etc.
We'll never fully know the story until GW does something with it, which may not happen for a long time sadly, considering the rich history and the fullness of character behind Marius.
I say Hans becomes our Elector Count. One thing is for sure though, Averland has no shortage of Aristocracy to lead the masses.
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There was no mention of Averland's elector during the Nemesis Crown.
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He was, however, mentioned in Darkness Rising, the novel describing the Storm of Chaos.
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How much info did it give, Von Boren?
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Thanks Wiss ... one question down. :icon_cool:
I haven't seen nor heard anything regarding the "Disputed" situation being resolved so likely silly question there on my part. Still need to see what else can be found regarding the "Dark Years". If a campaign event centers around the "Disputed" Averland seat, then I'd be leaning towards having the time period start at 2523.
Having the Alptraum's and Leitdof's be two of the main opponents seems to make sense.
The Storm of Chaos was in 2522, and that's after Marius' death in 2520, so Von Breden, who are you referring to?
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I'm never good at remembering the years for this stuff, but I do believe that the SOC was after Marius' death.
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Yes Wiss, that is correct, and I was getting it mixed up, but I've edited my post.
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Von Boren?
:Ohmy:
It doesn't say the names of the Electors of most provinces. IIRC only Boris of Middenland and Karl Franz are named in the report of the council of war. All others, including the Averland elector, are named by their province. A friend has my book now, when I have it back I'll look up what he says and how aggressive his strategy is.
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Von Boren?
:Ohmy:
:happy:
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It doesn't say the names of the Electors of most provinces. IIRC only Boris of Middenland and Karl Franz are named in the report of the council of war. All others, including the Averland elector, are named by their province. A friend has my book now, when I have it back I'll look up what he says and how aggressive his strategy is.
Hmmm ... perhaps this means it had been resolved in 2521? It will be interesting if anything else is discovered.
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I doubt GW will do it.
Having read Sigmar's Heirs, I've found another faction that must be taken into account: the criminal gangs in Averheim. With no one in control, these are growing larger and bolder every day. It is possible that some of them are directed by certain factions.
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I agree, very likely they won't. I don't see GW focusing on any of the various lines of Elector Counts over the long run. They created a bunch of figures for different Elector Counts that they wanted to sell, and with a character like Marius, it seems to only make sense such a character might work it's way into bits of GW fluff, but beyond that there doesn't seem to be enough motivation for them to do more. And this line of reasoning leaves things open for folks like us to make up our own fluff for a campaign if we desire. However, it seems that such will require more reading and quite a bit of creativity to set a campaign event like what we've been discussing in motion, and this will take some time and energy if anything is to be finalized.
By the way, does anyone know what is the furthest date down the calendar that is given as part of Sigmar's Heirs?
(I really need to get a copy of this book. :icon_lol:)
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Crap. Karl, look what you've done. I see your character everywhere. Sorry, VON BREDEN!
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You have been forgiven.
Does anybody have pictures of his unit of Knights of Sigmar's Blood? I want to paint mine as such, but the artwork on the site it completely different from the picture of Hans Leitdorf Karl posted a couple of pages back. What scheme should I use?
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All we have (besides fluff written) is from the GW Website:
http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/empire/painting/knights/gallery/blood.htm
No colors are mentioned in the text, but a hand drawn picture is provided:
(http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/empire/painting/knights/gallery/images/sigmarsbloodart.jpg)
So black and red elements with the riders encased in polished blue armor.
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I hadn't seen it as "polished blue" before, but now I do. I just imagined it was silver in color.
I wonder why GW continues to not provide a painted version on their site?
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From the picture above, the armor seemed very similar to the "Polished Blue Steel" from the painting guide on GW's Website:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=500002&pIndex=3&aId=300004&start=4
But any polished armor would probably due. Judging by the high standards of the order, and the general pomp and ceremony of Averland itself, as long as the knights are uniformly finely dressed and polished for battle, they'll be fine.
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All we have (besides fluff written) is from the GW Website:
http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/empire/painting/knights/gallery/blood.htm
I meant that with 'the artwork on the site'. The problem is, the TCG card of Hans Leitdorf shows their Grand Master in different colours.
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Bah, it's a card game. Actually, both cards show him colored two different ways :-o
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Whichever source is more current would be the one I'd go with. Has the card game ever been official?
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I quite like the 'polished' effect idea. It's very in keeping with the wealthy elites of Averland.
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Found these Warcry cards on ebay ...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/JustaGuy778/WCWA182.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/JustaGuy778/WCWA330.jpg)
These two cards show him with silver or gold armor, and their seems to be quite a bit of red in both pictures. I like what is quoted as a moto, "In his name we swear our loyalty, to his blood we pledge our swords."
Regarding the Warcry cards, are these something that can still be found in stores :icon_question:
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I rather like that gold and red colour scheme. I've always felt that those two colours go well together.
As for the cards, I have no idea as to where they might be sold, but some kind of gaming/toy/sci-fi and fantasy shop would be my best guess.
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Okidoke, update time. I'm back at my apartment and have Sigmar's Heirs at hand again. Here is who is listed as the nobility of the towns/cities of Averland.
AVERHEIM - (contested after Marius Leitdorf)
Agbeiten - Count Matthias von Grunwald
Bernloch - Baroness Elise Alder
Bieswang - Baron Boris Ulbricht
Colmfahre - Baron Sigmund Hindenberg
Grenzstadt - (contested)
Heideck - (contested)
Hocheleben - Count von Grunwald
Legenfeld - Countess Carmilla von Sachs
Loningbruck - Countess Selena von Kusch
Pfungzig - Count Dieter von Heine
Streissen - Leitdorf family
Wuppertal - Leitdorf family
Link to map for reference: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/library/images/maps/Averland_v2.jpg
Here are some interesting notes on the gazetteer of Averland.
1) Notice that the Leitdorf family controls Wuppertal - a noted Sigmarite stronghold with large garrison (fort city) - and the liberal university town of Striessen. Streissen is also the second largest town in the province next to the capital Averheim. While not explicitly mentioned, being that Wuppertal is a Sigmarite stronghold, I would assume Hans Leitdorf is involved in some way with the town.
2) The Count von Grunwald controls two neighboring towns along the Upper Reik, Agbeiten and Hochsleben. These towns are not especially powerful or large, but the land area control is somewhat impressive and is along the southern trade roads. (These are also right across the river from Wissenlander's Brennenburg fort.)
3) Both Grenzstadt and Heideck are listed as contested. These both lie on the major trade route, the Old Dwarf Road. Heideck lies at the center of the province at a major crossroad.
4) Heideck is listed as contested but the Leitdorf family has partial control of the town. Local politics could push the support of the town to the highest bidder but some believe the town will return to Leitdorf control.
If anyone would like more details about an area, i'll keep the book handy, and a bottle of Loningbruck's finest wine.
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These are also right across the river from Wissenlander's Brennenburg fort.
Yeah, so smarten up! No spillage into Wissenland, please. :wink:
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Solland you mean :wink:
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If only you lived in 1706...
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These are also right across the river from Wissenlander's Brennenburg fort.
Yeah, so smarten up! No spillage into Wissenland, please. :wink:
Don't complain to me! I live half a day's ride up river!
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Okidoke, update time. I'm back at my apartment and have Sigmar's Heirs at hand again. Here is who is listed as the nobility of the towns/cities of Averland.
AVERHEIM - (contested after Marius Leitdorf)
Agbeiten - Count Matthias von Grunwald
Bernloch - Baroness Elise Alder
Bieswang - Baron Boris Ulbricht
Colmfahre - Baron Sigmund Hindenberg
Grenzstadt - (contested)
Heideck - (contested)
Hocheleben - Count von Grunwald
Legenfeld - Countess Carmilla von Sachs
Loningbruck - Countess Selena von Kusch
Pfungzig - Count Dieter von Heine
Streissen - Leitdorf family
Wuppertal - Leitdorf family
Thank KVofA! :::cheers:::
That confirms the info I have, although mine is coming from the madalfred site, and it lists a few more towns. It also includes that Averheim is being contested by the Alptraums and the Leitdorfs, as well as giving names for those in control of Grenstadt and Heideck (both Leitdorfs).
My sense is that it could be better to go with what Sigmar's Heirs has first, and then, if possible, find out how the rest was arrived at. (Perhaps the other details came from another Black Library source, and even if in conflict, no big deal, but at least we would understand the additional info, if we could.)
Link to map for reference: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/library/images/maps/Averland_v2.jpg
Here are some interesting notes on the gazetteer of Averland.
1) Notice that the Leitdorf family controls Wuppertal - a noted Sigmarite stronghold with large garrison (fort city) - and the liberal university town of Striessen. Streissen is also the second largest town in the province next to the capital Averheim. While not explicitly mentioned, being that Wuppertal is a Sigmarite stronghold, I would assume Hans Leitdorf is involved in some way with the town.
Where is the headquarters of the Knights of Sigmar's Blood?
2) The Count von Grunwald controls two neighboring towns along the Upper Reik, Agbeiten and Hochsleben. These towns are not especially powerful or large, but the land area control is somewhat impressive and is along the southern trade roads. (These are also right across the river from Wissenlander's Brennenburg fort.)
Wasn't this a Count's last name kicking around with one of the ... countries that doesn't exists?
3) Both Grenzstadt and Heideck are listed as contested. These both lie on the major trade route, the Old Dwarf Road. Heideck lies at the center of the province at a major crossroad.
This is very interesting to learn that Sigmar's Heir's has this written up this way. :icon_cool:
4) Heideck is listed as contested but the Leitdorf family has partial control of the town. Local politics could push the support of the town to the highest bidder but some believe the town will return to Leitdorf control.
Sigmar's Heirs covers this partial control concept?
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That confirms the info I have, although mine is coming from the madalfred site, and it lists a few more towns. It also includes that Averheim is being contested by the Alptraums and the Leitdorfs, as well as giving names for those in control of Grenstadt and Heideck (both Leitdorfs).
My sense is that it could be better to go with what Sigmar's Heirs has first, and then, if possible, find out how the rest was arrived at. (Perhaps the other details came from another Black Library source, and even if in conflict, no big deal, but at least we would understand the additional info, if we could.)
Keep in mind that Mad Alfred's gazetteer is of his creation using some outside influences, so yes I would rely on a Black Library publications more so.
Where is the headquarters of the Knights of Sigmar's Blood?
Unknown, it is never mentioned. It is however mentionedf from GW:
The Knights of Sigmar's Blood have a long and proud history. Led by their Grand Master Hans Leitdorf, brother of the Elector Count of Averland, their ranks are filled with the men of noble houses across the Empire. Their selection process is considered extreme even among the other Orders, as each Knight in training must spend a year in study within the church where he is judged by the priests as to his worthiness.
So the members of the order are very strong templars of Sigmar. Being that this order is also led by the brother of the Marius Leitdorf, I would assume the order is involved in some way with the Sigmarite Stronghold of Wuppertal and the Capital of Averheim - probably including chapter houses.
Wasn't this a Count's last name kicking around with one of the ... countries that doesn't exists?
Who knows. Those Solland Miscreants can write whatever fiction they wish :-P
However, I think somewhere that a former ruler of Averland from around the 2400's was a member of the Grunwald family.
EDIT- Looking back at this thread, I found the link to the time line. It has the following:
2433- Emperor Wilhelm takes military action against Elector Gunnwald of Averland in the case of the Pudding Tax Revolt.
Reference: http://www.freewebs.com/kalevalahammer/timeline24002499.htm
So yes, the Grunwald family was once held the Runefang of Averland some ~70 years ago.
This is very interesting to learn that Sigmar's Heir's has this written up this way. :icon_cool:
4) Heideck is listed as contested but the Leitdorf family has partial control of the town. Local politics could push the support of the town to the highest bidder but some believe the town will return to Leitdorf control.
Yes indeedy. Given the literature in several passages, the term contested does not necessarily imply that the town is at war with itself and blood is being shed for control. In Heideck for example is stated to have so much area divided up between local rulers that there is no clear ruler. That is to say merchants, local politicians, baliffs, judges, wardens, local nobility and land owners each own a splinter of the area so there is no clear leader/noble of the town. Heideck is specifically mentioned this way saying that the town could either split control independently or revert back to the Leitdorf family.
I also came across details in Sigmar's Heirs that would interest your fluff GamesPoet.
1) Pfungzig has a sizable garrison, though not huge or especially powerful when compared to others. One might consider it an easterly fort town.
2) The people of south central Stirland hold a long grudge against Averland and the Moot. Unlike the rest of Stirland, this area is rolling plains similar to Averland, and the locals still hold a grudge for their best farmland being given to the halflings. I've combined this into my fluff from the CiM campaign where invaded and controlled this region when the province collapsed upon itself in 2198.
3) The area of the moot along the river where your Aver River regiment is closely located is described as rolling fields of apple orchards. The town of Sauerapfel is located on the south side of the Aver river just inside the Mootland borders is a trading hub for these goods and trades heavily with Stirland and Averland.
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That confirms the info I have, although mine is coming from the madalfred site, and it lists a few more towns. It also includes that Averheim is being contested by the Alptraums and the Leitdorfs, as well as giving names for those in control of Grenstadt and Heideck (both Leitdorfs).
My sense is that it could be better to go with what Sigmar's Heirs has first, and then, if possible, find out how the rest was arrived at. (Perhaps the other details came from another Black Library source, and even if in conflict, no big deal, but at least we would understand the additional info, if we could.)
Keep in mind that Mad Alfred's gazetteer is of his creation using some outside influences, so yes I would rely on a Black Library publications more so.
Exactly. And by the way ... there was another publication by Black Library that I saw last summer, need to see if I can figure out which one it was and where I can get one, that reviewed the rivers in the Empire. If I recall there was a map in there that showed some of the other towns that are listed on the madalfred site, located in the Blue Reach area.
Where is the headquarters of the Knights of Sigmar's Blood?
Unknown, it is never mentioned. It is however mentionedf from GW:
... the members of the order are very strong templars of Sigmar. Being that this order is also led by the brother of the Marius Leitdorf, I would assume the order is involved in some way with the Sigmarite Stronghold of Wuppertal and the Capital of Averheim - probably including chapter houses.
This could make sense.
Wasn't this a Count's last name kicking around with one of the ... countries that doesn't exists?
Who knows. Those Solland Miscreants can write whatever fiction they wish :-P
However, I think somewhere that a former ruler of Averland from around the 2400's was a member of the Grunwald family.
EDIT- Looking back at this thread, I found the link to the time line. It has the following:
2433- Emperor Wilhelm takes military action against Elector Gunnwald of Averland in the case of the Pudding Tax Revolt.
Reference: http://www.freewebs.com/kalevalahammer/timeline24002499.htm
So yes, the Grunwald family was once held the Runefang of Averland some ~70 years ago.
Ah, ok, that's what I saw. I seem to recall writing that event and name down for future reference at some point (nothing to do with Solland afterall). So this is actually a good connection to make. Here is a family that might hold claim to the seat as well. So for a possible campaign idea ... we got the Leitdorfs, the Alptraums, and the Grunwalds, and who knows what else.
This is very interesting to learn that Sigmar's Heir's has this written up this way. :icon_cool:
4) Heideck is listed as contested but the Leitdorf family has partial control of the town. Local politics could push the support of the town to the highest bidder but some believe the town will return to Leitdorf control.
Yes indeedy. Given the literature in several passages, the term contested does not necessarily imply that the town is at war with itself and blood is being shed for control. In Heideck for example is stated to have so much area divided up between local rulers that there is no clear ruler. That is to say merchants, local politicians, baliffs, judges, wardens, local nobility and land owners each own a splinter of the area so there is no clear leader/noble of the town. Heideck is specifically mentioned this way saying that the town could either split control independently or revert back to the Leitdorf family.
Yet no fluff reason given, correct?
And GW fluff or not, his could come into play at the start of a campaign along with the contesting of Grenstadt. Both of these being on a main trading route that goes over the Black Fire Pass. With Marius dieing in 2520, the issues beginning to arise in 2521, SoC occupying the Empire in 2523, this leaves a year in between for the resolution of the problems 2522, or a further breakdown in the situation, with Averland putting it's troubles on hold for the SoC, and things being resolved sometime during the Dark Years of 2524 to 2526. (Maybe even a campaign covering the breakout of hostilities in 2522, with a followup campaign set during 2524, or maybe even having Averland splintered through till a resolution in 2525 or 2526.)
I also came across details in Sigmar's Heirs that would interest your fluff GamesPoet.
1) Pfungzig has a sizable garrison, though not huge or especially powerful when compared to others. One might consider it an easterly fort town.
2) The people of south central Stirland hold a long grudge against Averland and the Moot. Unlike the rest of Stirland, this area is rolling plains similar to Averland, and the locals still hold a grudge for their best farmland being given to the halflings. I've combined this into my fluff from the CiM campaign where invaded and controlled this region when the province collapsed upon itself in 2198.
3) The area of the moot along the river where your Aver River regiment is closely located is described as rolling fields of apple orchards. The town of Sauerapfel is located on the south side of the Aver river just inside the Mootland borders is a trading hub for these goods and trades heavily with Stirland and Averland.
Yes, I've seen these things somewhere as well. Regarding the relationship with south central Stirland, I've started looking for info on this to tie it into the fluff of the town I'm creating. I've already read something somewhere that tells of a river crossing, likely operated from the north side of the river since it shows up in Stirland fluff across form where I am placing my town. I was kind of psyched about this because this provides all kinds of interesting potential for growing my own fluff on the other side of the river. Also, there is a road on the map of The Moot, that I'm going to have lead directly to my town. With the exception of a chapter of the Order of the Black Bear located in the town, there will be good relations with The Moot, hence the economics including Trade, along with the Wine and Agriculture of the area.
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Solland Miscreant's, Country that doesn't exist ::heretic::, :ph34r: GGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR :eusa_wall:
:wink:
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Captain, you are on the wrong thread if you are expecting to find everyone to be supporting those who claim Solland heritage. It's natural that certain Averlanders are going to be heavy in their talk towards Solland. Best to know who they are, understand it, and find a way to build relationships instead. Even then, some just won't take your view.
As an example ... Graf Heinrich von Furstenberg might sign on because he is a mercenary at this stage of his life, and being careful not to draw too much attention to himself nor get too caught up in a lost cause, but his older brother is loyal to whomever holds the Averland Elector seat.
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The factions should show significant differences, perhaps even enough to provide variant army lists. The Leitdorfs are Sigmarite, even more if we let Hans apply. There should be at least one of the 'new rich' fighting for the title - most probably an Averheim merchant.
EDIT: Oh and what did you think of my idea with the Emperor's representative trying to take the title he's supposed to find the best candidate for for himself?
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Captain, you are on the wrong thread if you are expecting to find everyone to be supporting those who claim Solland heritage. It's natural that certain Averlanders are going to be heavy in their talk towards Solland. Best to know who they are, understand it, and find a way to build relationships instead. Even then, some just won't take your view.
As an example ... Graf Heinrich von Furstenberg might sign on because he is a mercenary at this stage of his life, and being careful not to draw too much attention to himself nor get too caught up in a lost cause, but his older brother is loyal to whomever holds the Averland Elector seat.
It's all fun :happy:
I still wonder who'll actually get the rulership of Averland though :unsure:
:::cheers:::
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The factions should show significant differences, perhaps even enough to provide variant army lists. The Leitdorfs are Sigmarite, even more if we let Hans apply. There should be at least one of the 'new rich' fighting for the title - most probably an Averheim merchant.
EDIT: Oh and what did you think of my idea with the Emperor's representative trying to take the title he's supposed to find the best candidate for for himself?
I like the idea of having variant army lists. So far it seems to make sense to at least have an Alptraum faction, a Leitdorf faction, and perhaps a Grunwald faction, maybe at least one other.
I could see having an Emperor's representative looking out for himself, yet one question could be how is this accomplished and another could be how does he manage to rise above the other various factions. If it comes to warfare (and a campaign event could likely presume that it would), he'll need to find himself in a situation where he has his own forces available, capable, and successful in rising to the challenges, or find other's willing to fight for him. Not impossible, just tricky.
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I still wonder who'll actually get the rulership of Averland though :unsure:
:::cheers:::
Depends on whether or not GW is interested in working this out, or leaving it open for different campaigns, WFB or WFRP, to determine it themselves, as GW moves on to another Warhammer time period where GW gives a name, but with out an explanation as to how it is arrived at nor what happens in between. I suppose understandable from GW's perspective.
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On whose side would the state army fight, by the way?
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On whose side would the state army fight, by the way?
Do you mean Averland's provincial army?
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Yes.
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This could depend on who has what influence over which units and where these units are stationed. In giving consideration to such a possible campaign event, this is certainly something that would need to be reviewed. Thanks for brining it gup. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
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No updates for almost two weeks?
I was thinking about some sort of campaign system involving all the major towns, each giving a special bonus to the controlling faction. For example, Streissen, with its Nuln contacts, would have access to gunpowder weapons and artillery, letting you take a free cannon or so. The main problem here is that both Streissen and Wuppental would be controlled by the Leitdorfs. Thus I suggest we let the family split in two factions after all.
My idea was to let Streissen's ruler, of which is only known that he is Marius' cousin, be the heir to Marius oldest brother, whose madness recently became that bad he is not able to fulfill any task, let alone ruling the land. I haven't figured out yet why Hans (who's from Wuppertal) would oppose him, suggestions?
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Between the Solland secessionist movement and an Averland civil war, the south is really boiling...
There doesn't have to be any rhyme or reason to oppose Hans. He seems like he'd be the right person for the job, but petty differences will lead people to make a claim that they really have no base for claiming. Even the smallest of familial ties could give people a claim to the throne if you want to split up the Leitdorf faction.
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Off course, we're talking about the Leitdorfs here, not being the sanest of all - excellent idea Wissenlander!
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That could work, I'm already developing a map, and I've got 3 factions going, perhaps 2 different Leitdorf factions would be just right, and might provide the fourth faction I was contemplating. Thanks gentlemen, although even this might be tricky. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
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So we're not taking the Emperor's representative trying to take the power for himself?
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We could to work this into the fluff some how, but we azre a long way off form finalizing many things. :icon_wink: :icon_cool:
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Anyone have Sigmar's Heirs around? Someone check out the gazetteer in the averland section for the names of nobles and such. Turns out that Kastor Leitdorf was created by Alfred Nunez in some fiction works. It even conflicts with itself. In one Gazetteer he wrote, Kastor was the count of the Sigmarite stronghold of Wuppertal, but in his Elementalism 2 (http://www.scribd.com/doc/5243407/Elementalism2) he was Count of Striessen.
:happy:
----- Message d'origine -----
De : madalfred
À : benoit.dumeaux
Envoyé : lundi 2 février 2009 01:34
Objet : Re: The Province of AVERLAND (+ The Moot)
D'oh. I have to stop trusting my memory.
In any event, given the competition among the Leitdorf nobles, I can see a number of them claiming to be Count of Striessen. :-)
I'll correct it in the version that appears on my website. Thanks for the heads up.
Alfred
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Hey cool! :::cheers:::
I love MadAlfred's stuff!
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Dreadaxe ... thanks for giving him the info! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
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My colour scheme is a yellow-black 45 degree division of the shirt and alternate yellob-black stripes on the leggings.
My Greatswords are order of the Hammer and have blue-white diamonds on their uniforms.
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Sounds like a neat black and yellow color scheme. :icon_biggrin:
Keep in mind that the Critical Hit fluff is outside what GW and Black Library have published. I actually like the stuff and it makes for good reading though. :icon_cool:
It's unfortunate that GW and BL haven't come out with something like that. Perhaps they take a viewpoint that such would be too limiting, and/or perhaps they want to let folks create what they want regarding the various provinces.
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The source doesn't really matter. The history of the Empire isn't exactly set in stone anyway.
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No, it isn't, but its always better to play an army with some gravity of official history to it.
Also, could someone tell me which heraldry is most prevalent in Averland?
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It could matter, yet this depends on what a person is trying to accomplish with what they are trying to create. It could be important to some, but not to others, and either way is ok. And knowing about what one is making their decisions based upon could be helpful. :icon_wink:
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Especially as it teeters on the brink of civil war... :engel:
You could use Sigmarite or Myrmidian heraldry, or something with horses, or bear traps in a Bergjager army... It depends on the theme and the fluff, really.
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OK, I have decided my fluff:
Solbrücke
Solbrücke lies on the converging of the rivers upper Reik and Sol. It is a rich town due to the bridge tax that it collects from travellers wishing to enter Averland from Athel Loren and the area of Solland. Solbrücke was founded by a previous greedy count of Averland, and has grown to quite a large size since then. Solbrücke maintains large garrisons of swordsmen to defend the bridge into Averland from Beastmen and tax-avoiders alike these swordsmen carry the symbol of a tower on their banners and have blue ribbons on their uniforms. Solbrücke has strong ties with Nuln - probably stronger than those with Averheim - and so their standing army has many handgunners, outriders and artillery. These ties were formed when a huge beastmen force tried to push through to Averland in 2320. THe bridge across the river was burnt, but the beastmen built other, crude bridges. Though the handgun fire slowed their progress, the beastmen could not be held off forever, The then govenor - Franz Halbvogel sent an emissary to Magnus the Pious in Nuln requesting aid. The help from Nuln arrived soon after and the beastmen were driven back to their forest by a giant army led by Magnus Pious himself. Since that battle, Solbrücke has maintained trade with Nuln, as well as bolstering their armies in times of need. Solbrücke handgunners also wear red stitching on the black halves of their Averland uniforms to show their solidarity to the people of Nuln.
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Live in fear no longer, good people of Averland, for I, Seigfried Leitdorf, the estranged son of our late Count, hereby claim the both the title of Count and the ownership of Mother's Ruin. Any dispute to this claim should now be openly made, in order that any traitors should be clearly known.
Your rightful Count.
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Live in fear no longer, good people of Averland, for I, Seigfried Leitdorf, the estranged son of our late Count, hereby claim the both the title of Count and the ownership of Mother's Ruin. Any dispute to this claim should now be openly made, in order that any traitors should be clearly known.
Your rightful Count.
:o
Another civil war is looming on these forums.
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With civil war starting across the entire black mountains I wonder how all the northerners are feeling :biggriin:
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Left out I reckon.
Bloody northerners :)
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Northern and uncouth, no doubt.
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Left out I reckon.
Bloody northerners :)
No, there probably had enough of war by now, especialy after the Chaos invasion.
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Nah northerners are like made of rubber, they always bounce back.
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Live in fear no longer, good people of Averland, for I, Seigfried Leitdorf, the estranged son of our late Count, hereby claim the both the title of Count and the ownership of Mother's Ruin. Any dispute to this claim should now be openly made, in order that any traitors should be clearly known.
Your rightful Count.
Where did the name Siegfried come from?
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If you're referring to that unnamed son, I'm not him. He's too young and insignificant. No, I was separated at birth, by a servant who was later executed; that nameless heir is my younger brother, and seems to lack the assurance to claim the position for himself.
Besides, Siegfried's a fabulous name.
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I'm just wondering, what color schemes are you painting your averlanders?
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Hi Genstrom, welcome to Averland! :::cheers:::
The basic color scheme used by GW is black and yellow, and most modelers seem to use some variation or combination of variations on this scheme.
Is that helpful or are you looking for more detail :icon_question:
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no, Im just.... should I paint my army white and yellow or should I have it more averland(ish) with black and yellow? :dry:
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Unless it's a particularly dark yellow, you may not have the most contrasting colors. But I can't really say much considering my province's colors.
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I recommend the black and yellow, as it looks wonderful; white and yellow doesn't seem to have quite the same impact to me. But if you're set on it, you can easily theme your army around a certain town, regiment, or noble.
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From the new painting guide on the GW site:
It is notorious in recent years as the home of the Mad Count Marius Leitdorf, and while his eccentricities have perhaps tarnished the province's reputation, they did nothing to reduce either its wealth nor the prowess of its fighting men.
Seems like they retconned his death?
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They're being quite hazy about it, but the uniforms and heraldry book mentions his deaths, so it looks like it still happened.
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Hello everybody!!!!
I have always played Empire and reading the fluff regarding Averland with their wealth and arrogance I really have fallen for this southern province of the Empire.
My only dissapointemnt is the colour scheme,I find the black and yellow to waspish,do you think a purple and yellow (much more to my liking even if it is Otermark but I do prefer the Averland background) scheme for maybe one of the minor households of the province could fit in fluffwise???
Cheers
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Having dug my sadly neglected Empire troops out of the wip box, and fallen in love (albeit tough, beardy man-love!) with the models of the Captain with pistol and hammer and Mad Marius himself, I've decided after much deliberation (and a few aborted test schemes) to throw my hat in with the Averlanders.
My paint scheme will be... black and yellow! :closed-eyes:
More interestingly (imho), it'll be a small force themed around the premise of a detachment of troops stationed in one of several watchtowers/border fort in BlackFire Pass, ever vigilant for new incursions of Greenskins.
So there we go. Bring on the Iyanden Darksun. :happy:
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Averland is the southernmost province of the Empire, through which runs the Old Dwarf Road to the infamous Black Fire Pass.
I've read the 4 pages filled with the ins and outs of the death of Marius and the timeline with it... but really NOBODY??!!?? noticed the flaw in the sentence?
Averland is not the southernmost province...Wissenland and former Solland are more to the south on the map then Averland is.
Shame on all you Averlanders!! :closed-eyes:
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I congratulate you on reading all of it. :::cheers:::
Welcome to Averland! :icon_biggrin:
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I congratulate you on reading all of it. :::cheers:::
Welcome to Averland! :icon_biggrin:
Thank you!
I guess me being an Altdorfian doesn't have a real influence on the friendlyness displayed by the Averlanders towards me then :happy: .
Though I must say that this region is not one I come very often as it is the operating zone for the 1st Altdorf Intervention Army and not my 2nd Army.
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Wissenland and former Solland are more to the south on the map then Averland is.
Averland is the southernmost province of the Empire
Your point being...? :engel:
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I guess me being an Altdorfian doesn't have a real influence on the friendlyness displayed by the Averlanders towards me then :happy: .
Might depend on whom you are visiting with and how you arrive. :icon_wink:
Though I must say that this region is not one I come very often as it is the operating zone for the 1st Altdorf Intervention Army and not my 2nd Army.
I'm unfamiliar with the armies you speak of, yet interested in learning. Perhaps in the Altdorfian thread?
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Wissenland and former Solland are more to the south on the map then Averland is.
Averland is the southernmost province of the Empire
Your point being...? :engel:
Wissenland is the point then I guess. At least last I checked that was also still a province
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Never mind, I just hoped to rile up Wissenlander a bit :icon_wink:
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Never mind, I just hoped to rile up Wissenlander a bit :icon_wink:
Sorry, I was faster :biggriin:
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Sorry, I was faster :biggriin:
Perhaps your speed caused an overlook of my question above? :icon_wink:
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Never mind, I just hoped to rile up Wissenlander a bit :icon_wink:
I saw it, but I was too crafty for your trap.
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Sorry, I was faster :biggriin:
Perhaps your speed caused an overlook of my question above? :icon_wink:
You might want to check the Altdorfian thread :) And if that wasn't your aim of the post then also check this thread for:
as I would be passing through to support the troops in Stirland and later on will be pushing onwards to Ostermark on decree of Karl Franz
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Thanks, I'll check it out. :icon_cool:
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Well spotted, it's just as well someone who reads these threads is awake, because obviously I wasn't paying attention when I first joined.
Shame on the rest of us for not noticing.
Anyway, why I am posting? I'm supposed to be an inactive forum member after all. I blame Midaski :icon_wink:.
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Marius Leitdorf was a very nice character, but it gives us some interesting options and GW might develop it further into a very interesting background. Might.
Sigh. Wish I'd found this thread a few months ago - there's some cool stuff here.
Anyway, anyone wanting further development of the Averland Elector situation might want to look here: http://www.blacklibrary.com/Warhammer/Warhammer-heroes/Sword-of-Justice.html (http://www.blacklibrary.com/Warhammer/Warhammer-heroes/Sword-of-Justice.html). It's the main theme of the novel. I can't promise it'll satisfy everyone, but having read the various opinions here, I hope it goes some way to settling some of the background issues. As many have pointed out, the fluff here is somewhat... inconsistent, so I had to make certain choices based on what I thought the most reliable sources were.
When it comes out (July in the UK), I'd be interested in any feedback. If you have any comments, let me know. :-)
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Hmmm ... interesting that this book has been written. Just hope it is well written, but I'm not counting my chickens.
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Whats the color fo the hobits living in the moot?
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Often green or red according to Uniforms & heraldry of Empire
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The banner in U&HotE id red, white, and green. The three figures all have a green component to their color scheme, wiht some details in red. One has white and another yellow, whiel two have different shades of brown.
However, I suspect a mix of other colors would be ok as well.
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Proud to be on such holy ground as the actual site of the Grand Averland Discourse. :engel:
If anyone actually still looks at this, I am Grandmaster Hans Bieter of the Knights Aver, Warden of Merfeld and Burgher in the League of the Vine.
I already posted my army on the Elector's site and did forget a few things, my color scheme and my theme
I chose the colors early on, with such an Averland bent I decided I just had to go black and yellow, with grey highlights (grey usually stands with yellow) due to its close relationship to Karak Angazhar and the steel trade.
The theme is duly chosen as well, with a significant amount of Myrmidian force behind the guild. I always thought of Averland as being almost like Prussia with the old Myrmidian Church (think the Catholics during the Reformation) and the currently more powerful Sigmarites (think early Lutherans) at eachothers' throats, in fact I thought it would be politically intriguing for the Von Alptraums to be Myrmidians and so make the feud with the Leitdorfs more personal. Henceforth there is are lot of Myrmidian symbols in the army.
Does anyone know if they ever said Ludmila (the former Countess) wasn't Myrmidian, 'cause if not than the family is fair game.
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I've seen nothing that makes reference to the Von Alptraums being Myrmidian, although I suspect she'd be more tolerant of various religions than some Sigmarite priests, perhaps even more so than the Leitdorfs. However, that's only my sense of things, and I'm open to being shown otherwise.
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:biggriin: Thank you for the help, though the evidence suggests that there has been no info either way, this actually helps my cause, because if the second most powerful family in Averland doesn't have an exact religious tendency, then there is no reason I can't say she's Myrmidian.
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Averland has strong links with Myrmidia, particularly through the Knights of the Blazing Sun, as you can read about here (http://warhammer-empire.com/library/aisforaltdorf/the-grand-county-of-averland/), so I think that you would have a reasonably strong case for the background you are presenting if there is no strong evidence either way in any of the published materials.
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Glad to know that I'm not the only one who sees gaps in "official" fluff as an opportunity for improvisation. :happy:
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I would think of the Cult of Sigmar as more like the Catholic Church - it even has its own Pope!
I see Myrmidia as an exotic southern religion that has only recently (last 1000 years-ish) gained some following mainly through the exploits of the Knights of the Blazing Sun and increased trading links between the Empire and the other Human nations after the Great War of Chaos.
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Glad to know that I'm not the only one who sees gaps in "official" fluff as an opportunity for improvisation. :happy:
Normally, I take the official line on background, but if there is a genuine gap, or the information which is available can be read more than one way, then I have no problem with improvisation at all :icon_smile:. In this case, it seems that there is a lack of information, so you're interpretation is as valid as that which is put forward by anyone else.
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I would think of the Cult of Sigmar as more like the Catholic Church - it even has its own Pope!
I see Myrmidia as an exotic southern religion that has only recently (last 1000 years-ish) gained some following mainly through the exploits of the Knights of the Blazing Sun and increased trading links between the Empire and the other Human nations after the Great War of Chaos.
But Myrmidia, I think at least :unsure: and do not hesitate to correct me, in an older religion, akin to Ulric as the Elder Gods. WFRP was just so Empire-Centric that any religion that wasn't popular in the Empire is left til' much later in the backround to introduce. I believe that Myrmidia was really just the Southern equivalent of Ulric (I would suggest that Middenheimers and Middenlanders avert your gaze, but if you read on, don't kill me :ph34r:), a frankly more intelligent god for a frankly more sophisticated people, even at the time. And so even though Sigmar may be more entrenched in Averland, Myrmidia has a much more established Cult. Also, no one ever said that the Myrmdians don't have a pope, after all, who owns Remas? (Or as I call it, Hammer-Rome) The Myrmdians.
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It is my understanding that …
Myrmidia is the patron deity of the art and science of war (although references can also be found to patron of the arts and sciences in general), and is worshiped most by those in the military. She is said to be the daughter of Morr and Verena and the Sister of Shallya. There is a rivalry between her worshipers and those of Ulric, as well as a strong dislike for followers of Ranald. The headquarters of the religion is in Magritta, not Remas, although the Myrmidian religion is popular in both Estalia and Tilea. There are are large temples located in Nuln and Talabheim, but where ever mercenaries from Estalia and Tilea are employed smaller shrines are often found. With Averland's fluff regarding the employment of mercenaries and the raising of horses (there being Knights of the Blazing Sun chapter houses present), this seems to bring the worship of Myrmidia as well.
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Now now, I don't think that just because the temple in Magritta is more publicised than others due to the KOTBS connection that does not make it the center of the religion, once again I stress that WFRP is just too Empire-Centric, in that veiw the Old World is just that which surrounds the Empire, rather than a patchwork of unique and culturally different nations. Magritta is just more well known because an Imperial Knightly Order was establihed there. For all anyone knows Myrmidia could have been the Official God for the Reman Empire, which would sement Remas as the center of that faith, I think our Lady-in-Arms would be good for that actually. :happy: Magritta's temple could have been built by the Remans after their conquest of the land they named Estalia (after all, the -ia suffix is Latin :-))
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The temple to Myrimidia in Magritta is also the headquarters of the religion's ruling council. And in responding to your inquiries and statements above, I didn't say anything in the above posts regarding Magritta's connection to the Knights of the Blazing Sun, nor do I currently play WFRP. Fluff sources I've read clearly state that the largest temple is in Magritta, but we all have our fantasy worlds, so no big deal. :icon_cool:
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It is my understanding that …
Myrmidia is the patron deity of the art and science of war (although references can also be found to patron of the arts and sciences in general), and is worshiped most by those in the military. She is said to be the daughter of Morr and Verena and the Sister of Shallya. There is a rivalry between her worshipers and those of Ulric, as well as a strong dislike for followers of Ranald. The headquarters of the religion is in Magritta, not Remas, although the Myrmidian religion is popular in both Estalia and Tilea. There are are large temples located in Nuln and Talabheim, but where ever mercenaries from Estalia and Tilea are employed smaller shrines are often found. With Averland's fluff regarding the employment of mercenaries and the raising of horses (there being Knights of the Blazing Sun chapter houses present), this seems to bring the worship of Myrmidia as well.
Basically, Myrmidia = Minerva/Athene and Ulric = Mars/Ares when it comes to warfare.
Myrmidia is a goddess that has gotten too little mention in 7th edition, just like Taal. I have not yet given up hope that 8th edition will tell us some more, and concentrate more on the polytheistic element.
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The main religion of the Reman Empire in WFRP was Solkan, one of the gods of Law (I think he's the vengeance one). But like most Old Worlders, the Pantheon of gods is well respected.
Myrmidia is indeed based in Magritta, but there is a place in the border princes named Myrmidons which places the link with the Greek pantheon fairly obvious.
The Cult of Sigmar is, I think the closest thing to the Roman Catholic Church due to the Grand Theogonist and his Arch-Lectors being very influential in politics and quite xenophobic of other religions. There is even a warrior-priest named Luthor Huss (In reference to Martin Luther and Jan Huss) who wants radical reform of the Church!
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Yes, excellent points regarding the Myrmidia/Athena similarity, and the possible origin of Myrmidia coming from a location in the Border Princes.
:::cheers:::
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The main religion of the Reman Empire in WFRP was Solkan, one of the gods of Law (I think he's the vengeance one). But like most Old Worlders, the Pantheon of gods is well respected.
Myrmidia is indeed based in Magritta, but there is a place in the border princes named Myrmidons which places the link with the Greek pantheon fairly obvious.
The Cult of Sigmar is, I think the closest thing to the Roman Catholic Church due to the Grand Theogonist and his Arch-Lectors being very influential in politics and quite xenophobic of other religions. There is even a warrior-priest named Luthor Huss (In reference to Martin Luther and Jan Huss) who wants radical reform of the Church!
But Sigmar is such a new god, people keep forgetting that, when compared to Myrmidia and Ulric. Also, though I did eventually decide that Myrmdia being centered on Remas would be cool, originally I just meant that Remas is (I believe at least) a prodominantly Myrmidian city, and its obvious connection to Rome made me think of the Catholic Church.
Plus, I have missed a lot of the old Solkan stuff over the years, really they kinda dropped him to tell the truth. I'm sorry for forgetting that bit about the Remans, but I was never that familiar with the First Edition WFRP, and it seems to me that most of the minor law gods were in there :unsure:.
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But the Catholic Church is very new compared to the worship of say Athena or Jupiter.
If you think about it, the Sigmarite Church is like 2000 years old, older than the RCC was during the Renaissance.
In the end, we can't really take comparisons due to the fact that Paganism was pushed out by Christianity. If we still worshipped the Greek Pantheon now (and not the few minor pagans) as well as God, then we'd be able to discuss this with real-world comparisons, as it is we can't know how a centralised Church such as Catholicism would interact with a powerful pagan mythology worshipped by most of the population.
And another point - the Reman Empire is by no means a mirror of the Roman - it wasn't the be all end all of it's time and hasn't influenced the Old World as much as Rome influenced Europe so I wouldn't say that the predominant god of Remas would be major because of its connection with the city.
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I can see I'm not going to win this :blush:
Let's just agree to disagree, ok? :happy:
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But I can see your point, Bieter.
But not only Remas is crafted after Rome. Take a look at Luccini, further south in the Tilean Peninsula - it was founded by TWINS - Lucan and Luccina, who were raised by a female Leopard with Two Heads and Three Tails - a quite bizarre Skaven experciment, if you ask me - and the descendants of both FOUGHT over the right to rule the Principality since that time.
Even though the Luccini fashion reminds me of somewhat greek-style...
Good discussion, fellows.
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Remas having such a fancy harbour reminds me more of Carthage than Rome.
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In the Scroll of Time warhammer timeline, the modern Arabyan city of Copher was built on the site of the ancient city of Khartog (ridiculous name if you ask me, the real world name tweaking they did in the early editions is near disgusting :-(), which was raised by the Remans during their attempted Old World conquest.
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after many battles along side altdorf my men have joined a greater force... the averland army
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Welcome to the province Pally :biggriin:, it's always good to see new blood standing behind the yellow and black. Just don't try anything with our women, as I always say, once a Reiklander, always a Reiklander. :icon_lol:
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Hmm my first post and I'm already committing threadcromancy, however I think I'm still doing the right thing...
So I haven't been involved in Warhammer for a while but after playing Averlanders in Mordheim I decided to make an Averlander/Tilean exile army. My general is the descendant of a Tilean mercenary who was exiled but eventually made his way to Averland and became a commander of the Averland Tilean Guard also known as the Crown Company. Appointed by Baron of Merfeld generations ago Commandante Constante became an official captain and his company became official state troops after taking in the remains of several regiments who had taken many casualties in the defence of Merfeld. The Tilean influence has meant that they used mainly crossbows for ranged and mainly worship Myrmidia however the Averlander influence has resulted in them exchanging pikes for halberds and greatswords.
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Hello Averland enthusiasts!
Brand new to the forums, and moderately new to the game, but I have chosen Averland as my province. Was thinking of doing a bastard son of Marius marching for his right to the throne kind of concept army. What are the refernces I hear of the "Vine" troops... something like that? Are they a regiment of Averland, or a rebel political faction? Also in the codex it mentions that provinces like Stirland are poorer, while ones in the south adn west are richer. This includes Averland Im assuming? I want to create an army that would reflect their ability to acquire resources, so can they afford regiment apon regiment of knights and greatswordsmen, or do they rely more heavily on ill equipped infantry? Guns? Devout warrior priests and Witch Hunters, or tech savy engineers, or are they renowned for their understanding of magic?
I know this is fluff, but I enjoy creating an army portraying an area's culture and resource acquisition. My guess is that their close proximity to the border lands means they rely on cavalry for a quick response to invasion, as opposed to slow lumbering artillery trains, but perhaps they have many fortifying the mountains... Or perhaps the emperor allocates many resources to Averland's defence, and little of the provinces coin is invested...
Just some thoughts and questions, would appreciate any feedback,
Thanks.
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Hello Averland enthusiasts!
Welcome to W-E!
Brand new to the forums, and moderately new to the game, but I have chosen Averland as my province. Was thinking of doing a bastard son of Marius marching for his right to the throne kind of concept army. What are the refernces I hear of the "Vine" troops... something like that? Are they a regiment of Averland, or a rebel political faction? Also in the codex it mentions that provinces like Stirland are poorer, while ones in the south adn west are richer. This includes Averland Im assuming? I want to create an army that would reflect their ability to acquire resources, so can they afford regiment apon regiment of knights and greatswordsmen, or do they rely more heavily on ill equipped infantry? Guns? Devout warrior priests and Witch Hunters, or tech savy engineers, or are they renowned for their understanding of magic?
I know this is fluff, but I enjoy creating an army portraying an area's culture and resource acquisition. My guess is that their close proximity to the border lands means they rely on cavalry for a quick response to invasion, as opposed to slow lumbering artillery trains, but perhaps they have many fortifying the mountains... Or perhaps the emperor allocates many resources to Averland's defence, and little of the provinces coin is invested...
Just some thoughts and questions, would appreciate any feedback,
Thanks.
Years ago saw a reference somewhere to the so called "vine" faction of Averland, but that was someone's fluff, not GW, yet not that such couldn't exist in anyone's fluff. There's probably room for both wealthy and less wealthy communities in Averland, just like anywhere else, although supposably they produce a good quantity of horses and wine, and both products might not be considered inexpensive. If you write fluff that matches your army, suspect there is always a way to incorporate knights, great swords, other infantry, guns, priests, witch hunters, engineers, magic. With lots of horses, cavalry seems to fit the GW fluff easily.
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Lucas Reinhart leading The Knights of the Blazing Sun
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x298/farmer1301/KnightsoftheBlazingSun.jpg)
Hello there fellow Averland-general! :biggriin:
First of all, that was great fluff, and you got a hand for writing. And the knights was pretty good aswell, too bad I could not see the Helblaster. :icon_cry: But, with all respect, I would like to give you some tips on painting those knights! First of all, did you shade your knights? Maybe it's the light on the photo, but it does not look like you did. Shading is painting the model with a runny color, like Nuln Oil http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat800004a&prodId=prod1500264a. Shade paints got pretty much the same consistence as water, and shading, they flow over other paints and into the recesses on your miniatures, defining details and accentuating recesses. They create the "shadows" in a miniatures face. Try it out! And next time, you might want to try to paint the feathers more! Yellow is a difficult paint as it often turns greenish when mixed up with the black prime, so keep painting again and again!
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Now, I'm gonna bore you with some homebrew fluff about my army :biggriin:
Jacob von Schlecterhauph and the Order of the Sacred Sun
Jacob von Schlecterhauph claims Siegriech of Averland, an Emperor around year 50 IC, to be his ancestor. Born in the rich noble house of von Schlecterhauph, Jacob got the best of everything, including military equipment. Jacob was a boy who always were ready for the new adventure, wether it was shooting some ducks with his toy crossbow or climbing as far as he could on a mountain Jacob loved the smell of danger, action and ofcourse the thrill of adventure. This appetite for adventure lasted through his late teens, when he at the age of 19 led a small mercenary unit of heavily armoured swordsmen named "the Sons of the White Lion" (referring to the White Lion of Wissenland from where mot of the soldiers came form) during a war between the Tilean citystates of Miragliano and Remas. It was here he met the Estalian explorer, mercenary and madman, Gonzalos de Castello. Gonzalos had great plans for himself, dreaming of finding a city made entirely of gold in the Lustrian djungels where he would establish a colony in the name of the Estalian king. Jacob, always ready for the next adventure jumped on to de Castello's boat, leaving his swordsmen behind. The "Sons of the White Lion" later were all slayed by Araby mercenaries in the south of Tilea. But by then, Jacob von Schlecterhauph feet were for the first time touching Lustrian soil. The 3000 men established a camp and things were going nicely. They had a large amount of food, the djungles didn't seem to be inhabited and Jacobs only problem was the hot lustrian sun. They were in the west of Lustria, since Gonzalos had heard about a large river who went through the whole of Lustria, and he thought that it would be the best place to search for the Golden City. But the problem were that there were no river in sight, wich made some of the boatsmen afraid. They asked de Castello what to do, and he just laughed at them. "We'll find it", he said. "We'll just have to take a little walk through the djungles and we'll find it", he said. The little walk lasted for ten months, and after the first six month, they ran out of food and water. By the end of the ten months the 3000 brave men were 250 exhausted and hungry men. But they had found the river. When hearing the waters drippling, the men turned into crazy. They ran as fast as you can after nearly eating nothing in ten months. When arriving to the water, the men looked up in the skies and praised there gods. Jacob just whispered "Sigmar..." followed by "Myrmidia..." and fell down in the water by exhaustion. The group later splitted up, Gonzales de Castellos group should explore the river and find the Golden City, and the other group, led by Juañ de la Miró. Jacob got sorted into de Castellos group. They sailed in their small boats for long until they found a Lizardman village. The Lizardmen showed up to see if the explorers were a threat, wich they obviously werent. The tribal chief were going to execute them all, but his priest demanded him to show some mercy on the starving men. They were allowed to stay for three weeks, and after that they sailed away. The 100 remaining men were happy 'cause of the hospitality, but that's not what there were no sympathy in the Lizardmen they were about to meet. They met some skinks in canoes who put them under hard pressure from their poisoned blowpipes. The men managed somehow to keep them at a distance with crossbows and handguns. They fled deeper into the waters of the djungles. They were starving for a week, and when they saw a Lizardman village, they attacked, crazed by hunger and thirst. Half of the men were fighting the saurus warriors, and half of the men were just raiding the civilians and the village. Jacob were one of the ones who stayed. With the sergeant-at-arms, Miguel Ramirez, slayed, Jacob von Schlecterhauph took command of his men, and they managed to defeat the saurus. Jacob, in a frenzy after the battle and because of the thirst rushed into the village. He found a small little hut, were he looked for water and food. Too bad for him, there were already an estalian there. The estalian drew his sword and pointed it at Jacob, who managed to parry his attacks with his shield and slayed the estalian. He then drank and ate all he could. Knowing he couldn't return to the party, he went for a walk in he djungles. This walk would be the darkest period of his life, he was so crazed by hunger and thirst he ate soil. After puking because of the dryness, he urinated on it to give it more of a flavour. After some months he made it to the Estalian colony of Santa Magritta.
After he sailed home, he went to back to Averland as a rugged veteran. He took service in the (Mad) Count Marius Leitdorfs army and he quickly made it into the order of the Knights of the Blazing Suns, without doing the traditional step of being a Pistolier, since no one were able to tell him that he had not proven himself yet. Five years after his return, with the orc invasion of Vorgaz Ironjaw incoming, he were trusted enough to lead a little unit of some knights as a preceptor. During the Battle of Black Fire Pass, the elector count were slayed. This inspired Jacob to create a new order with some trusted men dedicated solely to the purpuse of defending Averland, named the Order of the Sacred Sun. Becoming a knight of the order is hard, your family must have been Averländer for atleast three generations, you must be recommended by a preceptor, you shall never have killed a fellow Averländer and you must be trained and tested for a year (or more, it all depends on when the preceptors trust you) until you're trusted enough to swear to protect Averland with your blood and soul. It became tradition for the von Schlecterhauph noble house to join the order very fast. Now, being the Grand Marshal of the Order of the Sacred Sun, Jacob wants to become elector, claiming he's the last relative to Siegriech of Averland...
I actually run Jacob von Schlecterhauph in my army, he sometimes counts as GotE or Grand Master of the Order of the Sacred Sun, depending on what I need him for.