Topic: Empire vs New Lizards 4000pts! Maps & Pics!

[Siberius]

Hello all, with the new Lizard book just out, my brother and a friend were eager to test the new stuff out, and I was just as eager to play against it! So we arranged to have a big 4000pt battle on Monday with them sharing command of a 4000pt army of Lizards (though they selected 2000pts each, they ended up mostly controlling the half of the battlefield they sat infront of. I borrowed my brother's steam tank and brought 4000pts of Hochland's finest men to take them on!

The game took rather a long time, though that is partially due to our slow pace of play, but also it was a nice close affair which I hope will make for an entertaining read. So without further a do...


Army Lists

Empire

General of the Empire: White Cloak, Fencer’s Blades, Dragonhelm, F.P.A, Sh
Wizard Lord of Light L4: Talisman of Preservation, Scroll of Shielding (Pha’s, Speed of Light, Net, Timewarp)
Arch Lector: Armour of Destiny, Crown of Command

Captain BSB: Armour of Meteoric Iron, G.W
Warrior Priest on barded Warhorse: Biting Blade, H.A, Sh
Engineer
Wizard of Heavens L2: Dispel, Opal Amulet (Blizzard, Comet)
Warrior Priest: Talisman of Endurance, Enchanted Shield, H.A
Witch Hunter: Brace of Pistols, Seed of Rebirth

11 Inner Core Knights inc com: Steel Standard
48 Halberdiers inc com + 20 Swordsmen (detach) + 5 Militia (detach)
29 Swordsmen inc com + 5 Militia (detach) + 5 Archers (detach)
10 Crossbowmen + 5 Crossbowmen (detach) + 5 Handgunners (detach)

28 Greatswords inc com + 5 Archers (detach)
5 Pistoliers inc mus
5 Outriders inc mus
Great Cannon
Great Cannon
Mortar

Helblaster Volley Gun
Steam Tank
Celestial Hurricanum


Lizardmen

Slann Loremaster of High: Soul of Stone, Becalming Cogitation, Focus of Mystery, Harmonic Convergence, Book of Asher
Oldblood: Armour of Destiny, Sword of Strife, Sh

Scar Veteran on Carnosaur BSB: Armour of Fortune, G.W
Skink Priest of Beasts L2: Dispel (Wyssans, Transformation)

29 Saurus inc com
20 Saurus inc com: Sp
20 Saurus inc com: Sp
15 Skink Skirmishers: B.P
14 Skink Skirmishers: B.P

18 Temple Guard inc com: Gold Sigil Sword
Bastilidon: Solar Engine
Bastilidon: Solar Engine
Bastilidon: Solar Engine
3 Ripperdactyls inc brave

Ancient Stegadon: Engine of the Gods, Unstoppable Stampede
Ancient Stegadon
2 Razordons
Salamander
5 Chameleon Skinks inc brave
5 Chameleon Skinks inc brave


Deployment

The Lizardmen chose sides, though there didn’t seem too much of a tactical advantage to being on either side. The Empire started setting up first and with detachments and war machines were always going to finish setting up a while before the lizards. There wasn’t too many surprises though, the terrain discouraged too much in the way of deploying to one flank or the other, so it was always going to be a classic case of infantry in the middle with support around it.

I managed to lose the roll for first turn (as I always do!) even though I had the +1. And with spells chosen, it was on to turn 1 Lizards!











Lizard Turn 1

The Lizardmen started very cautiously, only really pushing their flank units up whilst the Saurus centre stayed put. The ripperdactyls flew right up the board edge ready to charge in next turn.



Magic saw a 6-4 total (Each turn Lizards could channel 4, Empire 5). The bastilidons rattled off a couple of solar engine spells, one of which got through and wiped out all of the greatsword’s archer detachment. The halberdiers were extremely lucky when Tempest scattered a full 6” off them.




Empire Turn 1

The steam tank generated 2 steam points and put them both into firing the cannon, which smashed through the bastilidon facing it. 1 down, 2 to go! The rest of the Empire line counted itself lucky that the Lizards had stayed put as much as they had and followed suit, though the volley gun did move up so it could be assured a shot next turn.

The pistoliers did have a tight charge on the chameleons that had got right up close to them and overran the skinks. Magic was 8-5. To try and get some chaos in the Lizard lines, the heavens wizard put all his power into a comet which focused right infront of the carnosaur. Alas, it was cast with irrisistable force and he blew all wizarding knowledge out of his head!

The war machines looked to show as much enthusiasm, the mortar landing a shell bang on the skink skirmishers infront of them, killing 7. The leftmost cannon landed unluckily just infront of the Engine of the Gods, but the right cannon crushed through another Bastilidon. 2 down, 1 to go!
Not to be outdone, the outriders blasted 2 ripperdactyls out of the sky whilst the crossbows and handgunners each dropped a couple of enemies.




Lizard Turn 2

With a comet about to land infront of them, and the devastation wrought by the Imperial guns, the Lizards decided they should go on the offensive. Pretty much the entire army moved up as fast as possible with charges on both flanks. To the left, the pistoliers had left their flank open to the saurus and fled from the battlefield rather than be run down. On the right, the last ripperdactyl charged into the great cannon, destroying it.



The comet landed, with sadly less impact than I had hoped. In the end it killed 3 temple guard and 2 saurus. Magic was 4-1. The Slann pushed through fiery convocation on the halberdiers and all the Empire wizard lord could do was read his scroll of shielding. Even so, 14 halberdiers fell.
The skinks picked off troops here and there with blowpipe fire whilst the Ancient Stegadon with giant blowpipes somehow forced a shot down the hatch and wounded the steam tank. The razordons flung their spines at the halberds, dropping a couple but also eating a few of their handlers.




Empire Turn 2

The Steam Tank generated 2 points, one of which it used to trundle forward, the second of which it used to fire it’s cannon at the ancient stegadon right infront of it, wounding it three times.



The Imperial knights charged at the salamander, which fled away. They redirected their charge at the skinks skirmishers, who tried to do likewise, but were trampled by the knights, whose banner meant they would almost always move a great distance.

Meanwhile, the outriders decided it would be easier to dispatch the chameleons in combat and so charted in. One of their number fell, but the skinks were no match and fled from the battlefield.

Shooting saw a general thinning of the saurus lines, with no major victories.






Lizard Turn 3

The Lizard lines were closing in now. The carnosaur and stegadon saw the chance to charge into the steam tank. The carnosaur was blocked by a group of archers though so first is charged into them and unsurprisingly ran them down but its pursuit was poor and it stopped short of the greatswords. The stegadon fared no better, failing its charge. The rightmost saurus also failed a charge into the haberdier’s sword detachment.



The skink skirmishers showed them all how it was done though by making a charge against the cannon and killing the last crewman, whilst the ripperdactyl flew frenzied into the handgunner detachment who somehow fended it off and killed the beast!

The magic was 8-5 and the Slann called a tempest onto the greatswords, which would have been worse had they not have benefitted from the witch hunter’s magical protection. Still, 6 of them died. The razordons had obviously decided they were more hungry than angry and ate another few handlers whilst dispatching a halberdier.




Empire Turn 3

The greatswords declined the opportunity to charge into the carnosaur, fearing a flank charge from the large saurus block. Instead, the steamtank generated 3 steam points and put them all into the engine to plow into the monster! It took 3 wounds from the dinosaur, though the plans went awry as the enraged beast ripped great chunks from the hull, causing 6 wounds.



The magic was 8-4 and the Wizard Lord cast net onto the temple guard to try and make them think twice about what they did next turn.
 
The crossbows wounded the Ancient stegadon, leaving it teetering on the brink of death. The artillery was obviously losing steam though as the mortar exploded noisily and the helblaster misfired with a clear and close shot at the saurus.

[Siberius]

Lizard Turn 4
 
The Lizard army really began to surround the Imperial line now and apply more pressure on the flanks. A hail of darts and spines rained on the crossbowmen, who fled the field along with their handgun detachment.

The Slann attempted another fiery convocation and the heavens wizard read aloud from his dispel scroll, unwilling to allow another slaughter.
In the centre, the enraged carnosaur crippled the steam tank, destroying it.




Empire Turn 4

The time had come to commit to the battle once and for all. Before they could be completely enveloped, the halberdiers charged into the saurus opposite them, clipping the razordons too. Alas their swordsmen detachment fell short and looked to be in big trouble. The swordsmen in the centre charged into the temple guard, supported by the rumbling hurricanum. The inner core knights, so far from the battle swung around behind the haunted tower to threaten the rear of the large saurus unit.



Magic was 12-8. Needing some kind of boon to allow the Imperial troops to stand up to the much tougher saurus, the Wizard Lord put all of his power into Pha’s Protection which extended out to surround all the nearby units. He suffered feedback from it, but the damage was minimal.

The outriders unleashed a barrage of lead into the ancient stegadon, desperate to bring it down before it lumbered into the Empire lines. A cheer went up as the beast fell. The volley gun must have been watching as their gun spat enough to kill 10 saurus!

As the halberdiers and saurus exchanged blows, the arch lector called out a challenge which the saurus champion accepted. He smote the lizard down and his brothers held their ground even as their numbers shrank.

The Empire General in the swordsmen did likewise and was answered by the temple guard champion. With pha’s protection, her fencer’s blades and the white cloak, the warrior was unable to land a blow to her and she cut him down. The temple guard dealt more death, even with the pha’s protection, but as he slew a lizard, the battle standard bearer gave them the courage to stay put.




Lizard Turn 5

The lizards were losing their monsters, but the saurus were holding fast and grinding down the Imperial line. The question was, could they do it fast enough before the Imperial magic and artillery swung the tide.

In the crucial central combat, the carnosaur charged into the flank of the hurricanum and crushed it easily, moving on into the swordsmen. The skink priest who had been hiding behind the sphinx in the centre for most of the battle cast wildform on the temple guard. The clash of magic, wildform vs phas meant that though the temple guard were doing more damage, they were unable to be decisively victorious and the swordsmen continued to hold.



The last remaining bastilidon squeezed into the combat with the halberdiers and the Empire troops began to fall in even greater numbers.

Meanwhile their detachment of swordsmen were charged front and flank by the saurus and skinks, but due to the parental unit, held their ground against horrible odds.



The Lizards weren’t done though and took the Empire wizards by surprise by casting a burning alignment from their Engine of the Gods which went out in an 18” bubble. The carnage was devastating to the Imperial line, hitting most everything in the army… in the end it slew 5 free company, 1 greatsword, the heavens wizard, 5 swordsmen, 3 halberdiers and put 2 wounds on the hurricanum. (The engineer was luckiest of all as the lizards rolled 3 1s to wound!).






Empire Turn 5

The spell had caused mayhem down the Empire lines, but they weren’t done fighting. The inner core knights and greatswords charged into the once huge unit of saurus from front and flank. With the wizard lord having cast a bubbled speed of light, the combined charge saw 7 saurus fall and they tried to flee from the fight. The greatswords left them to the knights to deal with (almost a mistake as my first pursuit roll had 2 1s in! Thank goodness for the steel standard!), and the saurus were trampled.



The halberdiers and their swordsmen detachment were both down to a single rank now but with the help of the lector’s leadership and the battle standard bearer close by, both held on. By refusing to budge, the detachment had ensured that the two units engaging it would be unable to lend their aid to the lizard centre, a huge contribution.

In the central combat, the empire general called out a challenge which the carnosaur scar veteran gladly accepted. Though she was hard as smoke to land a blow on, somehow the carnosaur wounded her twice. She did no damage back, but she had never intended too, she was trying just to sell her life dearly to hold the line against the raging beast. The swordsmen took heart and actually managed to do more damage to the temple guard than were reciprocated, but it wasn’t enough to break the disciplined guard.






Lizard Turn 6

Attempting to boost his already considerable power (Ok, just for a but of fun!), the Slaan challenged the sphinx to a game of riddles. Amusingly, the big toad lost and suffered his first wound of the battle. The lizard magic phase was big, with the skink casting a new wildform on the temple guard and the Slann throwing soul quench and tempest at the knights, though the resilient horsemen only lost two of their number whilst the Slann suffered a feedback that wounded him and fried the skink priest dead!

The stegadon with the engine of the gods and oldblood (who had left the saurus before their demise) both charged into the greatswords. Whilst the stegadon crunched and trampled on the greatswords, the witch hunter showed himself and challenged his quarry, the oldblood to single combat. Striking first with religious fervor he was unable to wound the huge lizard, yet alone land a killing blow. For his efforts he was squashed like a bug. The greatswords held, even under the huge pressure.



In the centre, the general continued her duel with the carnosaur, though her wounds told and she lowered her guard enough for the monster to strike her down. The swordsmen were down to 15 now and the question was, could they hold out against the overwhelming pressure…
The halberdiers were in even worse trouble and by the time there was a pause in the combat, all that remained was one, standing beside his arch lector. Their valiant swords detachment was finally dispatched though by the eager skinks and saurus.




Empire Turn 6

There was little left of the Imperial line now and it was a case of survival rather than victory. Unfortunately after holding out for so long, the halberdiers and lector were finished off by the bastilidon and saurus.



Meanwhile the greatswords decided that enough was enough and fled from the stegadon and oldblood. Somehow they managed to get out of range though and survived the battle.

The swordsmen in the centre had one mission, hold… and they did it! And so, the battle was over and all that was left was tally the numbers of the dead and see who was victorious…

[Siberius]

Conclusion

Lizardmen – 2075    Empire – 1449

So it was a victory for the lizards! We had boosted the draw zone to 300pts as 100 seemed pitiful for such a huge battle, so I feel like it was relatively close, all things considerd. Of course the last turn was hugely decisive and could have swung in so many directions. For instance, had my halberdiers held up that last turn, that’s 500pts right there! But just as easily my swordsmen could have fled losing me another 500pts there instead!

I really enjoyed playing the new lizard book, the bastilidons are really interesting and the rippers, though hampered early on, still one of them was a big danger to my backfield. Beasts magic is a pain in the butt as an opponent and predatory fighter had me putting my head in my hands many times :-p. The liability of redirection was well avoided by them frying my chaff with solar engines blasts and skinks.

So to mistakes made on both sides. They made the first one by not heading right at me from turn 1. I made the second by poor target selection with my cannons. Nice though it was to take two of the bastilidons off in turn 1, the carnosaur and engine of the gods turned out to be much more dangerous to me. This was the first time I have ever used a stank. I usually refuse on principal, but at 4000pts it feels a lot more fluffy. My mistake, thinking it could hold anything. It can’t hold a carnosaur!

Highlights. Lots. Obviously the first turn of amazing shooting was cool, but not as storyworthy as the outriders taking out the stegadon just before it careened into my lines. Who says BS shooting is dead!? The other highlight was just the way my army refused to give up under overwhelming beatings. Empire are so hard to break these days. They just refuse to run and with stubborn, captain cold bloodedness, detachments and all, it really felt like they should do. Holding against all the odds!

I’m gonna do a quick rating out of 10 for my units, just for fun.


GoTE (8) I kitted her out to be unhittable and she really was! I’d give her 10 except she eventually died and she didn’t really pump out any damage, but her ability to take punishment, huge!

Arch Lector (7) These guys always do well for me. This guy helped hold my halberdiers in there for so long, but alas lost it on the last turn.

Wizard Lord (10) What an immense boost to my army. Got off a gameholding spell most every turn, whether it was phas or speed of light. And somehow he survived too!

BSB (9) Got me some vital rerolls on my LD and survived the game.

Warrior Priest Knight (6) Didn’t get involved much at all, but didn’t do anything wrong either.

Warrior Priest(6) See the guy above!

Witch Hunter (4) Obviously all he physically did was die, but he gets bonus points for magic resistance which proved handy and making a story moment when he met his quarry!

Engineer (8) Helped my HVG do all sorts of damage and hold together. Great investment.

Knights (7) They didn’t impact the game as much as I would have liked, but they did clear away the whole right flank and made the decisive charge late on to break the largest saurus unit.

Halberdiers (7) These are my old reliables and they really tried. Holding out with all the stuff that got shot at them and then multiply charged, they held almost till the end and probably their suffering was what allowed my other units to survive. The swords detachment were heroes too, they
get (9) for protecting my flank for so long!

Swordsmen (10) These guys are an enigma, they are expensive and never pump out much damage, but boy did they refuse to let me down all game. WS 4 honestly is rather handy, as is a parry save. They were giving almost as good as they got against temple guard. Their detachments fell foul of magic though.

Greatswords (6) My fault for blocking them up and not getting them involved till late. Also, they fled right at the end, which they just shouldn’t do! But I won’t mark them down too far as they are obviously good sprinters!

Cannons (6) My rightmost cannon rocked, my leftmost cannon sucked and then got eaten by skinks, so I have evened them out a little for that!

Mortar (6) Did a nice job on the skinks, but lets face it, that is most all it is good for. Had it have landed it’s shot on the steg and took off it’s last wound, I’d give it an 8 .

Pistoliers (5) Good start on the chameleons but then destroyed on turn 2…

Outriders (8) These guys have a new place of honour after crippling the ripperdactyls and then cinematically taking down the steg. What a performance.

Hurricanum (3) Oh dear, this is all my fault. First I forgot to use it’s +1 to hit all but one combat phase, stupid! Then I charged it in to help the swords, which seemed a good idea at the time, but meant it got eaten by the carny… which lost me my power dice. All my fault…

Helblaster Volley Gun (8) Did a stand up job, I’d have loved a 30 shot meltdown though for entertainment…

Steam Tank (6) Again my fault for letting it take on the carnosaur. I won’t rate it lower though cos it did wipe out a bastilidon…just wish I had used it more wisely…

So there you have it, hopefully my fellow players may come and comment on the battle too, from their own persepective.

[Eashamahel]

Your General has the White Cloak, which gives them a 2++ against flaming attacks, as well as a Dragonhelm, which also gives the 2++ against flaming.  Any secret reason?

[Siberius]

I really hate flaming? 

Um, I didn't really notice that, I just wanted the high armour save plus 5+ ward plus negative to hit roll...

[WolfyGriess]

All in all it was a good game. I think we were too cautious at the beginning, but for some reason I was thinking you would attack us. Not sure why, you were definitely set up to try and smash everything into the ground with gun fire before it reached you. It definitely did swing on that final combat phase, though there was some tough breaks with the dice gods as various things died or survived outrageously.

It kinda makes me wanna do another giant battle. It was fun.

[Siberius]

Ai it was actually more fun and managable than I thought it might be. Maybe you should break out your Empire and we can do another big one!

[Darkanian]

               As the other Lizard player I quite enjoyed it, this also christening the new lizard book for me as well. I usually play a relatively small, magic heavy lizard army. The Slann in the previous book being an absolute magical nightmare for plenty of folks. I do miss the extra power dice on spells and being able to have loremaster everything but I'll say I'm happy with how my Slann performed and High Magic is certainly a nice addition.
             All in all it was a really fun game, my lizards impressed me and I have some new toys to test out still.

[Siberius]

Yes high magic is amazing... And they didn't even use walk between worlds, hand of glory and drain magic! Convocation at 19 to dispel is a nightmare... And I had to dispel apotheosis a few times to avoid losing all the work I had done on the monsters. I think if I were them I might have tried using walk some, stegs flying up flanks and such would be rather nasty...

But overall, I can see why they never used the law attribute, no need!

[stareso]

Very cool report! It's great to see a larger battle. I was very impressed with your infantry, holding out for as long as they did. Definitely do another one! 

[Siberius]

Thanks! Yes, that was definitely what I took away from it. Empire infantry isn't too bad under pressure, if well supported. Course I had 2 stubborn units and captains/gote to get cold blooded. But it was worth it, knowing they would have to get me down so low before they would stand a real chance of breaking me. The halberdiers died to a man rather than run. If only I could have got support in there, they might have survived the game. Maybe a second unit of knights to push in once the combat was locked would have done it...

[SevenSins]

Nice report!
I feel that at larger sums you get more of a battle, and magic doesn't dominate that much (still powerfull, by all means). 3 Bastilaons! Good times!

[Siberius]

Thanks 

Bastilidons are good fun for sure. I feel like the new book is pretty well pointed compared to the old. For instance, you could get around 2 bastis for a stegadon and that feels about right. They are like mini stegs. I think if I owned the lizard army I'd have a tough time deciding what to fit in there and that is the sign of good balance.

Agreed about the magic. I am glad we didn't throw in another dice or something to boost it up because it seemed about right. We got plenty of stuff off as it was and it played an important part without ruling all, as you say.

[Scalenex]

Good report.  I am a LM player myself.  I find your opponents had a very different playing style than I have and it seemed to have worked.  It's good to look at other players styles.  Were it me playing you I'd have played fewer units but bigger units.

Were I in your shoes I would have targeted the Engine of the Gods first.

Also don't diss the Sphinx.  With their many wounds and Ward save, a Slann challenging a Sphinx makes lots of sense.  Under the old LM book I had a Slann challenge the Sphinx and get lore Mastery of Death on top of existing Lore Mastery Light.  That was a glorious day for me.

[Siberius]

I'm not really dissing the sphynx, it did provide some entertainment and they were indeed hoping for death loremaster. What was funny was that the Slann lost the riddle competition with it.  I actually thought about challenging it with my general to try and get heroic killing blow and decapitate that carnosaur. That would have been rather epic and seeing as my general is the Eowen model, quite appropriate! But I wimped out trying to conserve wounds for all the good that did me!

Yes, I should have aimed all 3 cannons at that EoTG on the first turn, then the carnosaur, then worry about the Bastilidons... next time!


I always wonder why Darkanian doesn't put his 2 saurus units into one big horde, it would scare me to death! But in fairness, he might prefer the maneuverability of the multiple units and I know he has suffered from their relatively troubling lack of movement sometimes. I find even 20 saurus to be a handful for most of my units too, especially when buffed so maybe he is happy running them that small.

[Darkanian]

I thought part of the reason you didn't gun down the Engine in that first turn was partly because it didn't have a character in it. So used to having to worry about the priest residing in it to actually do anything to be useful and the bastilodons were new and scary . You're right for the most part about the size of my saurus blocks but I've never been too huge of a fan of the whole horde thing mainly because it's hell to move with outside of just marching forward. I've fought against your hordes a fair time or two before and they seldom did any movement outisde adjust left or right slightly and barreling forward. The smaller blocks of saurus have always treated me well and I'm afraid of a rather poor round or two of rolling and the horde would more or less crumble, you've seen how well I roll CC attacks with saurus . Besides every army you have and most other folks around here beat mine in manueverability, one big Horde isn't exactly impossible to ignore.

[Siberius]

Very true.

I love my hoards, but I must admit that they limit what else you take just through sheer points and room on the table. So I think I am at about 1 per army and will probably stop there, unless doing a fun big battle. The only army I might run two would be beasts with a large gor one and a 30 man bestigor one, but I don't like only 30 in a horde, it starts fading way too fast. All my others are 50 and they do a goodly job.

But in say my next 2000pt Empire army I might drop the halberdiers horde for once and try the swords and greatswords. I really liked the hanground ability of the swordsmen. Maybe put more into my knights to do the real damage and just use the infantry to hold units in place till the cavalry get there!