Topic: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf

[VonOttenheim]

I really like your painting style and love your banners. 

Just be careful which way your "heraldic animal" is facing on the banner.

Forward is "charge"   

Love all your stuff, makes me want to get back into the hobby,

[Indio]

This looks fantastic! Love how everything looks, the army looks great together!

And that banner 

[Tiberius]

Really excellent work. Those colors are so strong and crisp. And as everyone has said, that banner is exquisite.

[PaxImperator]

Thanks guys!

Just be careful which way your "heraldic animal" is facing on the banner.

Forward is "charge"   

Oh dear, that's not good. Thanks for pointing this out. I've been looking for hours for a definitive source on this, but you appear to be right based on the flags here. I'm not repainting this flag but will not be making the same mistake in the future.

Now for the before pictures of the next big block of troops - my swordsmen:



I'm much happier with how this banner turned out back in the 00s. I'm still going to paint over it though because I want the Altdorf coat of arms on there somewhere. Here are two mock-ups I made:



They're both based on designs I found in the 'Uniforms and Heraldry of the Empire' book, which has been invaluable. The blue-and-red field and yellow cross mimic the sworsdmen's future shields and the Altdorf coat of arms is there to unify the flags across the army. I like the scroll for added visual interest in what would otherwise be a rather plain design. What do you think of these designs? I think I'll iterate on the right one, adding appropriate text to the scroll, making the yellow border narrower and making the black border around the cross thicker.

[PaxImperator]

I could use some input on the swordsmen's shields. I've just completed the back rank and something about their shields looks off to me. I'm questioning my decision to give the crosses a black border and to highlight that border. What do you think?



Unfortunately I've already painted the shields on 10 miniatures so it would be a bit of a shame to redo them, but better late than never. 

[commandant]

I would paint the skull in the  middle white and see if that helps.   The look really nice though

[Naitsabes]

Shields don't look so off to me (other then that I always thought these shields are a tad larger for the lads). but bringin out the skull is a good idea. white is a good choice. or maybe silver or even gold?

[PaxImperator]

It's been more than a week since my last post. I've made a lot of progress on the swordsmen but I don't have any finished models to show just yet.

Thanks for the suggestions! I've tried two alternatives:



Don't mind the exact colours too much. They're actually identical, only with different lighting. The left picture is closest to reality. Left is the original, middle is the original only with yellow borders and right is the original only with yellow borders and a bone-coloured skull. I'm erring toward the middle one. Bold, plain and simple. What do you guys think?

I've also shaded the cannon's barrel because it was looking a bit flat in retrospect. I used a 50/50 dark tone/flow medium mix. Quite an improvement, I think.



Finally, here's a new iteration on the swordsmen's flag, plus the earlier version for comparison:


(left: old, right: new)

The yellow border is slightly thinner, the coat of arms bigger and there's new lettering on the scroll. Interested in any suggestions, as always!

I deliberately chose an old-looking font because it seemed more appropriate than caps locked Times New Roman or whatever the source material used. 'Duty - Honour' is a bit bland but it does sum up Empire swordsmen well enough. I could've used 'Altdorf' but that would've been boring. I experimented with draping the scroll around the cross but that became a tangled mess.

[commandant]

I would consider combining. I like picking out the skull a lot

[PaxImperator]

After some more deliberation (a lot actually ) I chose the all-yellow cross. Without further ado, here are the swordsmen regiment's four back ranks:

Fifth rank:


Fourth rank:


Third rank:


Second rank:


The connoisseurs among you will have noticed I mixed in a few militia parts in this regiment when I assembled it way back when. I would no longer do this except for the occasional head swap because it makes them look a bit less clean than they could be. There are few enough militia parts that it doesn't change the unit's overall appearance though, so no need to change it now. In terms of individual models, the swordsman with the studded leather armour in the second rank is actually my favourite so far. I used Vallejo 70.875 Beige Brown with a dark tone wash on the armour as I was experimenting in preparation for the regiment's free company detachment. I've been only using black and dark grey for leather parts so far, which would be rather limiting when painting a free company. I feel the reddish brown I used in the original red-and-black scheme detracts too much from the actual red.

Next up, you guessed it: the unit's front rank including the champion, musician and standard bearer. The flag should be quicker and easier than the last one, as I keep telling myself...

[Albrecht von Hinkel]

I love seeing a regiment like this come together. Keep up the good work!

[Sharkbelly]

Agreed! More, please! 

[Rowsdower]

Dear GW PLEASE bring back those kits. There was nothing wrong with them

[Albrecht von Hinkel]

Docking a few points for fragile halberds. Otherwise, it's an amazing kit.

[Rowsdower]

^
I dont care what people say about the old Empire and Catachan kits. At least you could pose them and arm them however you wanted. The modern equivalents are too fiddly and parts heavy.

[Zygmund]

Beautiful!

Love the two Swordsmen units. Especially the red & black one.

-Zyg

[PaxImperator]

Thanks for the encouragement one and all! 

Docking a few points for fragile halberds. Otherwise, it's an amazing kit.

I'll second that.

^
I dont care what people say about the old Empire and Catachan kits. At least you could pose them and arm them however you wanted. The modern equivalents are too fiddly and parts heavy.

Modern plastic kits frequently seem to have too many dramatic poses. They look great individually but duplicates are too obvious and they're hard to rank up/store/game with. The models also aren't segmented in logical ways so kitbashing is a real chore. The old Empire and Catachan kits have that much going for them, at least.

Beautiful!

Love the two Swordsmen units. Especially the red & black one.

-Zyg

Good thing I took pictures of them before repainting them red, blue and yellow then!  Perhaps the Altdorf boys will still be able to become your favourite once you see them as a completed unit? Keep watching this space...

Another flag, another case of procrastination being my worst enemy. I finally have something to show again though.

For this flag I'm using masking tape for the first time. Fingers crossed... It's not just useful for masking the borders, which are supposed to stay yellow, but also for marking the grid. The tape's easier to remove than pencil lines on the flag itself.


First up: red all over to define the cross.


Then blue.


At this point I could no longer contain myself and removed the masking tape along the flag pole. Where it works it works great, but some paint still got underneath it in places. This was typical of all the borders. On the reverse side I'll try to get a better seal with the tape and use less diluted paint.


Some clean-up and freehand later, we have the contours of the shield and scroll.


Finally an all-but finished picture of this side of the flag plus a WiP shot of the swordsmen's command group.


This side of the flag of course still needs to have letters on the scroll, and for that I'll have to widen the scroll in the middle a bit because the letters wouldn't fit right now. I'm not unhappy with the result so far and more importantly I'm now past the psychological hump posed by all the freehand work so the rest should go faster.

[Sharkbelly]

Looking good! It is quite the process, but the results are worth it!

[PaxImperator]

Thanks! Glad you like them.

I completed the swordsmen unit this week. Picture time!













Very happy with the flag. I'm sure the next one will come a bit more easily still than this one. One thing I like about the halved colour scheme on this unit is that it looks very different depending on the angle you're looking from. You don't get that with a quartered scheme, although I'll probably try that on the next main infantry unit to distinguish it from the spearmen and swordsmen.

For now though, it's time for something a bit easier and faster: pistoliers AKA horsey boys.





I almost completed this unit way back when but never got around to their bases. You may be able to tell from the quality of the painting that this was one of the last units I painted for this army in the 2000s. The red-and-black scheme looks rather effective and it's a bit of a shame to paint over it, but needs must. They'll look better still in glorious red, blue and yellow. I'm thinking one red sleeve, one blue sleeve and a yellow feather for starters. Should be a fun little break from painting flag-toting infantry.

[Albrecht von Hinkel]

  Fantastic work!

[Archilector_Malaga]

Excellent work! That infantry unit looks great.

[PaxImperator]

Thanks guys!

Progress has been slower than I would have liked. I have only myself to blame because I've been distracted by Reus 2, a tile-placement puzzle game that is like candy for my brain. Time for a small update to get the paint juices flowing again! Here's a work-in-progress shot of two of the pistoliers:



I'm happy with the way the black armour, yellow feather and red and blue cloth of the uniform work together. You can really tell the difference of these sculpts compared to the 5th edition Empire plastics because folds in cloth and other details are much more pronounced. These have been less fiddly to paint as a result. The pistols are slightly oversized but it's not bad enough for me to want to break out the clippers. The pistoliers themselves still need to have their pistols and boots highlighted and then I'll call them done. For the horses, I'm repainting the saddle cloths blue with yellow trim. They used to be khaki, as can still be seen on the right model. That was just too drab. The yellow trim is revealing a problem I've been having with The Army Painter's quickshade washes generally. Most of the pigment seems to end up not in the deepest recesses but somewhere halfway between recess and high point. Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this?

I'm still debating how bright to go with the saddle blankets. I don't want them to draw too much attention away from the riders, hence the Vallejo Imperial Blue basecoat, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to introduce this different shade of blue in the army. I'll probably repaint the horses' tack black like most other leather items in the army. That reminds me I still need to paint the straps on the pistoliers' legs that hold their leg armour in place. Back to work!

EDIT:

I'm not sure the black tack was such a good idea. It seems to highlight how disproportionately wide some of it is. Maybe I should just leave it reddish brown? 

[Indio]

Agree, prefer the reddish brown color. Can't wait to see this unit completed in all its bright colored glory!

[PaxImperator]

Not content to bow before the tyranny of reddish brown tack, I embarked on an ultimate attempt to find an alternative. I settled on red. Prospects seemed good. There is historical precedent for it and even examples of good-looking miniatures. Here's a side-by-side comparison of black, red and brown tack:



The result speaks for itself. It looks terrible, really. A few steps too far down the road of 90s red-era painting. I'm not sure if I could ever make it look good on this miniature. I think it worked on the Wargames Atlantic renaissance heavy cavalry because they used a more muted red, the riders don't have much red on them and the tack is clearly ornamental in nature. That's not the case with the pistoliers. A muted red might just work here too, but not while the pistoliers are wearing bright red. Good thing I was skeptical enough to try it on only part of one model. Back to reddish brown tack then, as everyone including a little voice in the back of my head has been telling me to. I'm not even disappointed. Not every idea pans out and it's been a good learning experience.

[PaxImperator]

Now for those pistoliers I've been teasing. 













The work-in-progress shots have basically ruined the surprise factor, but I'm happy with them. The colours work well together and I like this paint job better than I did the old one. Let's say the reddish brown tack has grown on me.

In other news, good old St. Nicholas gifted me some super glue so I've finally been able to glue the cannon to its base. My old super glue from The Army Painter had completely dried out because the cap is apparently custom engineered to break after limited use. The new one from a model railway brand should hold out much better. I also received a number of magnetic sheets, which I'll be putting to good use soon...



Finally, for something that's been in the works since October, here are some work-in-progress shots of my new captain. The first three are from dry-fitting the parts with blue tack.



The body and head are from the late 6th edition Empire general kit, the arms from the 6th edition knightly orders kit, and the halberd from the 6th edition militia kit. If you're well versed in Empire models you may be able to tell where I got my inspiration from.



"I don't fight the forces of Chaos every day. But when I do, I neither give nor expect quarter."

Note the holes I drilled in the halberd's blade and the greenstuff tassel and sash. Very pleased with how he's shaping up so far.    He looks grizzled but still flashy enough to make for a convincing captain. The parts actually went together so well that it almost felt like the sculptors of the various kits I used all intended for the parts to be used just like this.

It's too windy and rainy to do any basecoating for now, so in terms of painting I'll probably see to the cannon's base and the six handgunners that I still had to repaint.