Topic: humans of the old world?

[Paladin-Zebra]

so it has come to my attention that there are alot more human factions then empire, brets, kislev, and in some cases chaos, i have also learned about a few such as araby, estilia, and tilea but i have learned that there is more then that  apprentlly there is some asian themed army's to the east of the old world and some on islands scattered around the globe. my question is were are they, what are they/theme, who are they, and were did they come into the warhammer fluff (i.e. some fluff in a high elf book, or fluff in a rule book, ect.)

 
paladin

[Alleton]

there are several and they have been left deliberately vague for possible future development (Unlikely to happen) and for freedom in book and story authors (More likely). The three biggest ones I'm aware of is Cathay, which is analogous to China, Nippon, an analogy to Japan, and Ind, an analogy to India. There are several converted armies from many people based on these places, but there is little officially printed about them, I do know that there is a Skaven colony around Cathay somewhere, but I don't know much more than that.

[Baron Martens]

The geography of the warhammer world is suspiciously similar to the real one.  So yeah, Cathay is like China, and is located roughly where China would be, same with Ind/India, Nippon/Japan, etc.  As far as fluff, its not much, but it's scattered around the army books, such as how  Skaven clan Eshin learned how to be ninjas in Nippon.  I think there are brief sections buried in the big rule book also.  Your best bet is probably the Ogre army book; they originated right by Cathay, much farther east than any of the other armies, so alot of their magic weapons and stuff has references to those eastern human kingdoms.

For the slightly better known ones like Araby, Estalia, and Tilea, the big book and Empire book are probably most of what you'll find.  Maybe some stuff about Araby in the Tomb Kings book, and if you can find the rules for Dogs of War and Regiments of Renown that'll cover Estalia, Tilea, and Border Princes a little bit.

And of course they may be covered in some Black Library books, but I've mostly read their 40k stuff, so I couldn't point you to any specifically.

[ZeroTwentythree]

There rules for Nippon at one point. Last I recall was in 3rd edition, where they were an allied contingent (similar to the way Kislev was in more recent editions.)

Albion has also been in a few supplements & scenario kits over the years.

[White Knight]

There rules for Nippon at one point. Last I recall was in 3rd edition, where they were an allied contingent (similar to the way Kislev was in more recent editions.)

GW even made figures for them.

And they made some Araby figures too for DOW (Al Mukhtar's desert dogs), Bretonnia (Suliman the Sarazin) and Mordheim (Arabian merchant).

[Paladin-Zebra]

Albion has also been in a few supplements & scenario kits over the years.

this may be a noob question but i have heard of albion but who lives there and who are they

[S.O.F]

this may be a noob question but i have heard of albion but who lives there and who are they
[/quote]

Pseudo Celts/Caledonians/Hibernians depending on the writer. Older stuff tended to be aimed more at a 9th century Celtic Britain heavy on the Caledonians sort of feel with the later kilts and claymore trappings thrown on. Last mention of Albion with any vague depth was the Dark Shadows campaign back in 02 I think. That and the trends for instance of the DOW Giants aimed Albion to be more along the lines of pre-Roman Britain. Personally I prefer the dark ages Caledonia version since it fits more into the general range of Warhammer tech levels and the like but I think woad warriors and head hurlers are a bit more popular interpretation.

[Brad]

this may be a noob question but i have heard of albion but who lives there and who are they

Pseudo Celts/Caledonians/Hibernians depending on the writer.

And Fimir 

[Uryens de Crux]

I think if GW can do something like the heraldry book, they could do a look at other humans from the old world

As for Albion I like the pre-roman Britain version, especially of they do something clever with magic.

[Von Kurst]

Albion--Way back in the day (late '80s/early '90s) there was a short story featuring Albion.  The island was broken into kingdoms with names similar to Arthurian Britain.  The level of technology was more Bretonnia.  (This is not before Bretonnia, but before the Warhammer world developed its rigid separation of technology by region.  For example in 3rd edition the Bretonnians had Bombards and crossbows and the like.)
By the 5th edition DoW book the Celts and Druids had taken over the fluff.  The Remans had been stopped on the beaches by the Giants of Albion, who occasionally waded across the straits to hire out as mercenaries.

Publications:  5th edition Dogs of War Army book, The Dark Shadows Campaign booklet and Giantslayer.

[orcyboy]

Going back even further in the 80's I'd guess 2nd edition, GW published the supplement "The Tragedy of McDeath" which takes place in Albion.  In this case GW has the natural human inhabitants as a bunch of drunken Scots (redundant?) some of which have a special caber toss attack.

http://www.solegends.com/citscenarios/mcdeath1-01.htm

[Lord Equaton]

Well as far as analogies go, Kislev is certainly a slavic-based land (Poland/Russia mix), Chaos humans of Norsca are obviously Nordic peoples and the Border Princes are kinda like medieval Croatia (a border area of the Holy Roman Empire to keep away the Turks). Estalia and Tilea are Spain and Italy and the Asian ones are too obvious to mention, as well as Araby, c'mon. I have yet to decide wheather Marienburg is Venice, Luxembourg/Liechenstein/Monaco or simply a German city-state with independance.

As far as Dark/High Elves go, I've always liked to imagine them to be Americans/British, although it may be a bit of a stretch.

[Gneisenau]

Marienburg = The Netherlands.

[ShakaZulu]

They do have what looks like some old world humans on GW. They don't really give an explanation and i haven't read anything in Empire Fluff about any of these places.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat500025a&rootCatGameStyle=

[S.O.F]

They do have what looks like some old world humans on GW. They don't really give an explanation and i haven't read anything in Empire Fluff about any of these places.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat500025a&rootCatGameStyle=

Those are the DOW Regiments of Renown and the only ones they have are all Tilean, well Pizzaro may be Estalian I don't think it said in the old 5th edition fluff where his lads came from.

[Firey Baps]

As the others have said, the assorted army books usually mention one of the lesser known Human locations.
As for Albion, I much prefer the Drudic Pre-Roman Britain dominated by the word of  the Druids and the warring Celtic tribes. I would love an Albion army to be made, as unlikely as it is to happen, because frankly I want a big group of woad painted Celts armed with Claymores and riding about the place on Chariots. As I've just re-read Giantslayer, I see that as the best example of what Albion is like and love the idea of the different tribes and how they fight based on where they are located. (The swamp dwellers of Crannog Mere armed with spears and shields, while the mountain men of Carn Mallog carry Claymores and wear kilts.) Go Albion! 

[TexasYankee]

With China and India on the rise economically, you think they might come out with a Cathy or Ind Army. However, I think a Cathy Army would be very similar to Empire, with just a few more dragons . . . probably some bad-ass monks . . .

I'd love to see a Native American army, a mix of Iroquois Confederacy and Sioux Nation, but not sure how popular that would be . . . also, I've seen plenty of fluff concerning Cathy/Ind/Nippon/Tilea/Araby, but nothing of native humans living in the New World.

[Alleton]

Natives in the new world are amazons, a bit closer to the South American flavor of the lizards than the more northerly Amerind tribes you mention.

That said, an Amerind army is a fantastic idea visually, but I imagine they would work closer to the Lizard list. I wouldn't mind converting one or seeing one converted, but not a whole lot of what I would consider appropriate models to work from here. I could see some of the wood elves perhaps if it wasn't for all the elfie armor and clothing, and the first Valten could perhaps suit with converted clothing and weapons.

As for army lists, they would probably work with a lizard-men or wood elf list, leaving out a few things or replacing with others. No dragons perhaps but maybe a thunderbird or Raven (capitalized.) just a couple ideas off the top of my head. I'm starting to get excited about this just talking about it, but realistically I probably will never get started on it (Money being tight now.)

[Uryens de Crux]

Native americans would surely be more wood elf? Especially from modern popular culture about all amero-indians being tree hugging hippies.

Ind and Cathay would be variants of the Empire list really, but I'd still love to see a supplement for them. (40k can have them, why not fantasy?)

[Firey Baps]

Orcs and Goblins are in reality the closest you get to Native Americans, what with their feathered headdresses, shamanistic beliefs and such, especially if you look at the new savage orcs. And seeing as Lizardmen also have a definite Aztec flavour, all your American Native bases are already covered.

[Heinrich Kramer]

If I remember rightly (nearly 30 years ago) - the humans were defined originally in 1st edition in Forces of Fantasy (the original army books - combined in one box!). They had wonderfully original names as follows: Men of the West - Empire, Bretonnia, Estalia, Tilea, Border Princes equivalents but based around medieval rather than renaissance timeline, Men of the North - Norse/Marauders and Kislev, Men of the East - Cathay and Nippon, and finally Men of the South - Araby and Southlands. These were all very stereotypical and not very PC at all. Later they added the Norse colonies in Lustria (anyone remember Kremlo the Slann?) and the Amazons and as stated earlier the McDeath drunken Scotsmen - they were even armed with broken bottles and cabers (for tossing at other drunken Jocks).
 

[Derek Contyre]

All i know is that I want more human factions... but if they do make them, the game will feel more like a historical game, rather than fantasy.

[S.O.F]

.. but if they do make them, the game will feel more like a historical game, rather than fantasy.

And you almost make that sound as if it were a bad thing. In almost every fantasy setting humans are supposed to be the most common, most diverse, sentient form of life yet for some reason people get annoyed that 'more humans = less fantasy' and instead demand 5 different flavors color of Elf or Dwarf and throw in some animal/human mix when you run out of those.  Really I think GW is at the max of possible 'fantastic armies' they could possibly put in Warhammer and more humans would be the only way to go. Sadly this they won't do for sales reasons, part because children find more humans boring and second folks who want these new human types are highly likely to buy historicals that pass for very similar to what ever human type they release.

Oh well seems like the 8th edition of Warhammer is destined to be more like some sort of childish monster fights rather than battles between armies.

[Baron Martens]

.. but if they do make them, the game will feel more like a historical game, rather than fantasy.

Oh well seems like the 8th edition of Warhammer is destined to be more like some sort of childish monster fights rather than battles between armies.

...Which is why infantry formations are dominant in 8th, and monsters more vulnerable than ever 

[S.O.F]

Oh well seems like the 8th edition of Warhammer is destined to be more like some sort of childish monster fights rather than battles between armies.

...Which is why infantry formations are dominant in 8th, and monsters more vulnerable than ever 

More in the sense of your Abombs, Arachnaroks, Cygors, and the like with most likely more giant monster crap to come with every army book. The 8th may have made infantry regiments valid but I still think the angle is to make a more 'Apocalypse' style game, something I'm not to keen on.