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Author Topic: Battlefleet Gothic  (Read 121539 times)

Offline Crimsonsphinx

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2014, 12:12:04 PM »
In the Armageddon fleet, you can use marine escorts, so I didn't really buy any imperial ones.  I figured the marines would handle the speedy skirmish action, while the slower Imperial ships filled in the role of the battle line.

I have three falchion frigates and three firestorms.   No dauntless in my collection.  The admech ships I used as the light cruisers from the Armageddon list that were OOP pretty much from the start.

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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2014, 06:24:39 PM »
Aaaand the ebay fuss has resolved, the ships will be sent to Finlay. And an extravagant "thank you" to that fine gentleman for his suggestion!

Well, that's me having about 990 points of Imperial Cruisers I guess.
 :-D

Offline BAWTRM

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #52 on: August 12, 2014, 07:23:49 PM »
Two really nice fleets you've got there Crimsonsphinx!

Those connected Roks with the 'warped in' Imperial Cruiser, is that a Space Hulk?
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Offline Crimsonsphinx

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2014, 06:53:52 AM »
Yeah thats right, its quite a big piece all in all. 

Didn't anyone see my chaos fleet in those photos?  :-D

I have to say, out of all the game systems GW have produced, gothic is probably the most balanced one I have played.  I guess probably because the amount of weapon types is so limited.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 06:57:58 AM by Crimsonsphinx »
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Offline BAWTRM

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2014, 07:44:11 AM »
Also, the number of different fleets is limited and they haven't got lots of specific rules (mostly 1 or 2 big ones) to make them differ, and not any almost unlimited different combo's in upgrades or magic item equivalents.

All in all, much cleaner rules set across the board.
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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2014, 08:46:29 AM »
Oh, I did spot your Chaos fleet all right Crimson. It's just that I'm currently plotting how to steal it, so I didn't want to focus your attention there.

Offline Crimsonsphinx

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2014, 11:40:36 AM »
Eldar play completely differently to the other fleets.  I always wanted to collect them, but my group made it very clear that if I bought them, noone would play against me.

I started with Chaos, then bought Orks.  My main opponent always used to claim Chaos were over powered compared to his Imperials, even though I always thought the Imperial fleet was better balanced myself.  So I bought my own Imperial fleet which I still feel is the most rounded fleet in the game.  Armour 5+ fronts really cripples Chaos ships, regardless of how awesome their gun batteries are.

All my ships are named, and all my fleets are totally painted.  Which for me is a miracle.  Its just a shame they stopped producing the models.
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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2014, 12:07:16 PM »
My main opponent always used to claim Chaos were over powered compared to his Imperials, even though I always thought the Imperial fleet was better balanced myself.  So I bought my own Imperial fleet which I still feel is the most rounded fleet in the game.  Armour 5+ fronts really cripples Chaos ships, regardless of how awesome their gun batteries are.

I think Imperials are a "straight towards the enemy, advance behind swarms of torpedoes and nova cannons blazing. Weather the incoming storm with 6+ front armor". While Chaos is more "present the broadside and bomb the fuckers out of space with massive firepower while being faster". Shouldn't being abeam most of the time mitigate the 5+ armour somewhat?

Offline Crimsonsphinx

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2014, 01:07:43 PM »
We play on 6X4 tables and no it really doesnt Aldaris.  Sure if you can keep your ships abeam you have the same armour value, but if the enemy has any sense he is trying to get his ships into your front or rear arcs.

Chaos ships also have some unusual armament on some that actually make being in your front arc a good thing.  Eg I believe Murder class have two front facing lances from memory.  If you field the Hades class then it fires four lances forwards, which is a very strong, especially in a squadron of Murders.

Carnage are best to sit back and shoot with, and Slaughter to get up close and personal.  Imperials can field all kinds of very manoeuvrable torpedo boats, which are the bane of armour 5+!

All told I prefer the Imperial ships,  they seem to be a much better blend of offence/defence.  Also, they play the line of battle better than Chaos do!
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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2014, 01:27:38 PM »
I wasn't really referring to the armour being equal, but about abeam compared to closing is much more favorable on the gunnery table for the Chaos dude.

I don't like the Chaos ships with an emphasis on prow armaments very much - much prefer the long range, broadside ships. Chaos closing on Imperials doesn't seem to be a very good idea to me. You give a boost to enemy gunnery, you have very little in terms of torps and you don't have the 6+ prow, so heading straight in seems like a recipe for desaster. So no Hades/Murder for me, and the Slaughter is too short ranged for my taste. Stand off and broadside all the way for me! The Imperial player will have to close, because he'll be outgunned badly at range.

Offline wissenlander

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2014, 01:31:21 PM »
I missed the boat on BFG and really regret it.

Ditto.  Same with Man o' War, Epic and Blood Bowl (though trying to catch up with that one).
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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2014, 02:09:27 PM »
Hey, the rules are free, and if you're not looking to collect one of the rarer fleets it's still not too hard to get one on ebay. Quite affordable too, especially compared to what it will cost you to field an army in either 40K or Fantasy. Besides, there's tons of alternative models you can use if you're not too set on the original GW designs (which I kind of am, because those are fucking rad!)

Offline Finlay

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2014, 02:19:34 PM »
only problem with no original models is its a pain to identify what they are.

I'd be up for some firestorm models to count as imperials or something.

what are the rarer fleets aldaris?

and what fleets would you recommend for a total noob?
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Offline Crimsonsphinx

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2014, 02:39:34 PM »
Firestorm models are a bit bigger Finlay.  I can try and get you some side by side shots of my Directorate and my Imperials if it helps give a sense of scale.

Easiest fleet to learn is Chaos.  They have no special rules that I can remember, and no special weapons, unlike every other faction in the game.  Weak frontal armour, good and powerful long range batteries, plentiful, expensive aircraft carrier battleship and cheap gunboat battleship give no real stand out slugger vessel in the big ship band but they do have cheap access to fighters/bombers on the very effective Devastation class.

The other good choice are Imperials.  Considered under gunned by many online, but they have a solid armour rating, and a big selection of four battleships to allow you to pick one to fit the fleet you want to field.  Generally well balanced and have access to their sides super weapon, the Nova cannon.  This thing is a beast.  Ships which don't have Nova cannons tend to have torpedoes.

Orks I can tell you to avoid.  Unless you like randomness.  Many of their ships have random firepower in all arcs.  This is a bad thing.  They have Eavy guns, which look impressive, and seemingly do nothing, because they dont get the close range bonus on the fire chart, and they are effected by blast markers.  That said they do have good escorts and cheap (but horribly low firepower) crusiers though.  The Battleships and Hulks are a liability.

Necrons.  Insanely fast, insanely powerful.  The tomb ship can win games on its own.  They are affected by a weird auto lose mechanism based on ships they have destroyed.  Hard to beat in a fair stand up fight, but you can do it.  Super tough armour of 6 all round and can move faster than anyone else, even eldar.

Eldar are quite difficult to use, with powerful offensive ships across the board.  Expensive, but low armour and low HP.  They have good saves vs torpedoes, bombers and lances, but fold like wet paper to weapons batteries when they are brought to bear.  They have to tack to the sun as well, which is an extra consideration. 

Space marines.  Play a bit like better Imperials.  They don't field traditional cruisers, only light cruisers which are cheap and flexible, but not especially exciting.  Their escorts are basically better imperial ones but slightly more expensive.  The big advantage here are the Battle barges, which they can usually field more of than other sides can field battleships.  Battle barges have good armour, good shields and a planetary bombardment gun they can use against ships.

The other factions I haven't used, or played against, so I can't comment.

Aldaris, the Slaughter class can't be discounted.  They throw a manly 14 fire power and 2 lance broadside down one side, which is better than any other cruiser in the game.  You have to get close though, so they usually go in with escorts without the rest of the fleet. 

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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2014, 03:12:56 PM »
Easiest fleet to learn is Chaos.  They have no special rules that I can remember, and no special weapons, unlike every other faction in the game.  Weak frontal armour, good and powerful long range batteries, plentiful, expensive aircraft carrier battleship and cheap gunboat battleship give no real stand out slugger vessel in the big ship band but they do have cheap access to fighters/bombers on the very effective Devastation class.

Agreed. They do have some special rules, but not much. Chaos does have a +1 bonus to boarding actions, and can get CSM crews + Chosen Terminators to get even better at it (and also significantly boost ld and hit and run attacks). Also, they get assault boats and boarding torps as standard. Marks and Lords allow for some customization as well. But yeah, no superweapons or extra special candy like most of the others. If you don't count the Planet Killer or the Blackstone Fortresses. And Abbadon. He's really amusing! A really good leader (with Ld10 and one reroll per turn!), great at boarding and stuff - but he'll actually fire on his own fleet if they screw up orders...

Space marines.  Play a bit like better Imperials.  They don't field traditional cruisers, only light cruisers which are cheap and flexible, but not especially exciting.  Their escorts are basically better imperial ones but slightly more expensive.  The big advantage here are the Battle barges, which they can usually field more of than other sides can field battleships.  Battle barges have good armour, good shields and a planetary bombardment gun they can use against ships.

Bombardment cannons are great, yes, but short ranged. There's not much long range firepower in the fleet at all. Iin my opinion the main asset of Space Marines are boarding and hit and run. They really excel at that! Firepower alone probably won't do it for Marines. Boarding torps, Thunderhawks and teleport attacks seems to be where it's at (judging from reading the list and my one game I had against them a couple of years ago...)

Aldaris, the Slaughter class can't be discounted.  They throw a manly 14 fire power and 2 lance broadside down one side, which is better than any other cruiser in the game.  You have to get close though, so they usually go in with escorts without the rest of the fleet.

Yeah, the firepower of Slaughters is great - but the problem is exactly what you suggest for its use. Go in with minimal support and hope for the best - which should result in it just being focused and being forced to brace for impact/crippled at the very least. Armour 5 closing seems like a recipe for getting bear mauled... but hey, you played more than me. Once I do get a bit more practical experience I might fall in love with that ship, but it doesn't seem to gel very well with how I intend to play the Chaos fleet.

@Finlay: cheapest options should be Chaos or Imperials. Followed by Orks, Eldar, SM and Tau, with Necrons and Adeptus Mechanicus probably the most expensive currently, judging by average ebay prices. Problem with SM is they should have at least one (and preferably two) Battle Barges, and those are battleships and accordingly expensive.

It's all relative though. If you're patient you should be able to get a 1500+ points fleet for a fraction of what you'd pay for a comparable 40K or Fantasy army, even nowadays.

EDIT: oh, forgot Nids! Those are actually very easy to do from scratch, from all I've seen and heard. Nid bitz, a dash of greenstuff and some bases, done.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 03:37:38 PM by Aldaris »

Offline patsy02

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2014, 04:56:31 PM »
only problem with no original models is its a pain to identify what they are.

I'd be up for some firestorm models to count as imperials or something.

what are the rarer fleets aldaris?

and what fleets would you recommend for a total noob?
Rare fleets are probably Necrons, Dark Eldar, and Tau.

Dark Eldar have the ultimate glass cannon fleet and are difficult to play(like in WH40k). However, If I were looking for a cheap fleet to start off with, I'd give them a try. They only have two ships so there's no identification issues if you use alternate models, and they are really easy to convert from Dark Eldar bikes and bits. Example:



Other than that, Imperials and Chaos are more available on ebay, and are easier to play than DE.
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2014, 05:14:39 PM »
Hey, the rules are free, and if you're not looking to collect one of the rarer fleets it's still not too hard to get one on ebay. Quite affordable too, especially compared to what it will cost you to field an army in either 40K or Fantasy. Besides, there's tons of alternative models you can use if you're not too set on the original GW designs (which I kind of am, because those are fucking rad!)

Problem being that I'd pretty much have to build two fleets.  As it is I need to build two teams for Blood Bowl.  Now that these aren't supported it's going to be hard to pull people in. 
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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2014, 05:16:30 PM »
Problem being that I'd pretty much have to build two fleets.

Welcome to the club!
 :-D

Although I do seem to have found a couple of people in the vicinity who still have some BFG. We'll see how that pans out.

@Patsy: that's a neat DE fleet! So 3 jetbikes = 3 Cruisers, pretty much. That sounds reasonable! The others are Hellion skyboards, right?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 05:25:28 PM by Aldaris »

Offline Michael W

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2014, 05:51:24 PM »
Space marines.  Play a bit like better Imperials.  They don't field traditional cruisers, only light cruisers which are cheap and flexible, but not especially exciting.  Their escorts are basically better imperial ones but slightly more expensive.  The big advantage here are the Battle barges, which they can usually field more of than other sides can field battleships.  Battle barges have good armour, good shields and a planetary bombardment gun they can use against ships.

Bombardment cannons are great, yes, but short ranged. There's not much long range firepower in the fleet at all. Iin my opinion the main asset of Space Marines are boarding and hit and run. They really excel at that! Firepower alone probably won't do it for Marines. Boarding torps, Thunderhawks and teleport attacks seems to be where it's at (judging from reading the list and my one game I had against them a couple of years ago...)
As I explain to friends - Space Marines mostly shoot Space Marines at people.  Boarding torpedoes on everything is incredibly useful, and boarding actions - with the Space Marine bonus - are lovely.  Bombardment cannons work best coming out of a full cruiser squadron (6+ front armour, you say?  Nah, I'll hit on 4s instead.  Critical damage on a 6, you say?  Meh, I prefer 4s again).

Nobody's really talked much about Tyranids, which makes me sad.  They're a great fleet for fun.  The instinctive behavior can result in some screaming at your own fleet, but it's still entertaining.  "Not the planet!  No!  Turn around!  It's not lunchtime yet!  Kill enemies, then eat!  You little morons!"  "You're...boarding!?!  It's a battleship!  It's twenty times your size!  I don't care if you're hungry, it's still way too much for you to take on alone!"  And perhaps the most aggravating one:  "He's right next to you!  He's right there!  How did you not notice him!?!"

Tyranids have a flexible fleet in terms of what you build.  Like Dark Eldar, limited ships types, lots of options.  They're slow but dangerous - spores give most of your ships decent shields/turrets, and they work on pretty much everything.  Hive ships are the core of the fleet, and while they can sport impressive firepower, they can also deliver hordes of assault boats, as Tyranids can pump out twice the craft of any other fleet and anytime it reverts to instinctive behavior, it will reload ordnance (unless there's something more interesting to do).  And while the slow speed limits your range threat, it also means that your craft are so closely packed that enemy escorts can't get near you.  Cruisers are light, and best used for boarding (Tyranids put everyone else to shame when it comes to boarding actions).  The three varieties of escort are all useful - the slowest ones sport very good weapons batteries, while the two faster versions can both be equipped with feeder tendrils, enabling them to tear other escort squadrons apart and wreak havoc on larger ships without endangering themselves too much.  Kraken, the escorts with a permanent saving throw (very rare in BFG), can also sport the heaviest weapons batteries of any escort in the game, if you want to make a mess out of Eldar.

Tyranids are disgusting at low-point games.  While most fleets have to take cruisers in order to take bigger ships, and pretty much everyone else is limited in how many Battleships they can take, Tyranids build their fleet by starting with the Battleship and going from there.  The result is having an absurdly hard-to-damage ship in a game where your opponent lacks enough firepower to really threaten it.

All that said, bugs aren't hard to play - especially since once you start failing Leadership checks, Instinctive Behavior largely runs your fleet for you anyway.  They have very limited weapons options and only 5 total ship types.  And with your fleet trucking toward the enemy at 15cm a turn, you'll have plenty of time to plan out your strategy before you can begin shooting back at them.
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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2014, 06:07:48 PM »
I never played with or against Nids, but your write up makes me want to!
 :-D

Offline patsy02

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2014, 06:55:18 PM »
@Patsy: that's a neat DE fleet! So 3 jetbikes = 3 Cruisers, pretty much. That sounds reasonable! The others are Hellion skyboards, right?
Yeah, I think so. Not my fleet, mind you.

Edit: I just forgot about Nids. Also a fleet that can be made completely from 40k nids, though with a bit more effort and green stuff involved.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 01:24:03 AM by patsy02 »
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Offline Michael W

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #71 on: August 14, 2014, 03:30:36 AM »
I never played with or against Nids, but your write up makes me want to!
 :-D
Just don't make your first game against Chaos.  That combination of long-range shooting, fast fighters, and fairly quick ships makes them a pain.  "Come back here!  I just want to nibble on your ship a little bit!  Just to check the taste, I promise!  Get back here, you wretches!  Ow, that actually hurt!"  Gotta catch them in a pincer or pray they're stupid enough to come at you.  Imperials are lovely though.  And Tau explorator fleets...they're like a buffet line in space.
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Offline Crimsonsphinx

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #72 on: August 14, 2014, 07:24:23 AM »
I didn't want to write about fleets I had no experience in.

Tau had two completely different fleets.  The standard one which was very carrier based, cheap in points and expensive in money and then the forge world one which was cheaper in money and the models were gorgeous.   Can't say I have ever seen either.

Aldaris, all you need to do is get 3 slaughters in a unit and cross your fingers you can get two of them to the enemy without being crippled, then win.  I only own two myself, so I have always had to bulk that part of my fleet up with escorts.  I just figured charging right at the enemy to be a very chaosy thing to do.  While the more sensible chaos people hang around on Carnage class, all the nutters get put on my Slaughters.

There is something especially satisfying about shouting RAMMING SPEED and plowing into the flank of imperial ships!  Who cares your armour is rubbish, you are chaos and you are going to hit things with chainaxes one way or another.  (note, I have a fairly average winning record with Chaos, this playing in character thing might have something to do with it)
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Offline BAWTRM

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #73 on: August 14, 2014, 07:46:15 AM »
Don't just shout "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!" and refuse to use ranged weapons as they are cowardly.
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Offline Crimsonsphinx

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Re: Battlefleet Gothic
« Reply #74 on: August 14, 2014, 10:25:50 AM »
Don't just shout "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!" and refuse to use ranged weapons as they are cowardly.

No its pleasure for the pleasure god.  My Emperors children fleet have no dealings with those primitive scum!
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