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Author Topic: Empire Elector Counts  (Read 23763 times)

Offline GriffinGeneral13

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Empire Elector Counts
« on: January 19, 2005, 01:25:52 AM »
I have been exposed to the Warhammer world for over two years now, but just began to collect an army(Empire, of course) to play a few months ago. If you want, you can go see my army in the related forum. Anyway, I was wondering if there were other elector counts besides the nine that vote for the Emperor? I was thinking that there might be local level elector counts who vote on a more local governing level. If not, is it possible for me to use an elector count model and stats in a game to represent a local baron or lord(no runefang though)?

Offline buakjon

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Empire Elector Counts
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2005, 01:36:40 AM »
I don't see why not. I use the stat's and rules for the EC, but just call him a general. I also do not give him a runefang. As long as the Fluff fits most people won't say anything.
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Offline Oberst Rotbart

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Empire Elector Counts
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2005, 01:38:21 AM »
Now I may be wrong here, but from what I get from the book, there are ten elector counts (along with the 4 priests and the elder of the moot); one for each of the ten provinces.  There are no elector counts of this type at the local level, but of course you can use the elector count models and stats as someone else such as an arch-lechtor, burgomeister, etc.
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Offline GriffinGeneral13

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Empire Elector Counts
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2005, 01:44:27 AM »
Aren't there only nine electo counts though? In White Dwarf(US) #288, there was an article about the Elector count of solland and how the province was destroyed. Anyway, thanks for the input as I really wanted to use the elector count's ability to ride a griffin as it fits in with my army's theme.

Offline Oberst Rotbart

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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2005, 01:52:40 AM »
Okay, I not trying to create a heated debate, but just want to get it strait for myself.  The provinces are as follows:  1) Averland, 2) Hochland, 3) Middenland, 4) Nor(d)land, 5) Ostermark, 6) Ostland, 7) Reikland, 8 ) Stirland, 9) Talabecland, 10) Wissenland.  Now I know that Karl Franz is also the elector of Reikland, but when election time rolls around, there will be another count in Reikland.  So am I thinking right or just wildly confused? :huuh:
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Offline Benedictus

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Empire Elector Counts
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2005, 02:57:44 AM »
Let's see if I can clear this up (odds are good that Rufus will be here before I'm finished).

These are the 10 Elector Counts of the Empire:

Averland, Middenland, Nordland, Hochland, Ostland, Ostermark, Reikland, Stirland, Talabecland and Wissenland. Each of them has a runefang. These are also the ten main provinces of the Empire.

The Emperor, Karl-Franz, is also the Count of Reikland. Upon his death, his heir will take over the duties as Count of Reikland and there will be a vote on the next Emperor. The Count of Reikland has been Emperor for several generations now, as they have the support of the Church of Sigmar (more on that below). However, this doesn't mean that the Count of Reikland=Emperor. It's just been working that way for a hundred years or so.

There were two other provinces, Solland and Drakwald, each of which had and Elector Count and the associated Runefang. Both provinces no longer exist. The Runefangs are held in the Imperial Armoury.

These people also may vote on who becomes Emperor, but they may not be nominated for the title, and they have no runefang: Elder of the Mootland, Grand Theogonist of Sigmar, Ar-Ulric (of Ulric, obviously) and the two Arch-Lectors of Sigmar.

This gives a voting council of 15.

----

You may use the 'Elector Count' position in the army book to represent any lower-level noblmen/general in the army you wish. A local baron or lord, a burgomeister, an outlaw lord of the Border Princes...whatever.

This clear anything up?
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Offline Clarkarias

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Empire Elector Counts
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2005, 12:40:54 PM »
For gaming purposes, use the Elector count stats for whatever you want.  Mine is a Garrison commander.  Although many people use him as Burgomeisters, Head Merchants or Just tough townsmen rallying against an enemy
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Offline Magnusk

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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2005, 08:57:56 PM »
Just one question, wasn't the elector count of Averland, Marius Leitdorf killed by Orcs?
If so, is there someone new?
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Offline Heretic 01

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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2005, 09:38:27 PM »
Yes he was killed by orcs, but, if I'm correct, he is still used in the game, I think some people who play Averland may use the model as a new EC who just prefers to dress like Marius did


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Offline Oberst Rotbart

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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2005, 01:17:03 AM »
@ benedictus
       yeah, that's what I was thinking.  Thanks for clearing it up
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Offline Gorbad Ironclaw

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Empire Elector Counts
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2005, 07:18:03 AM »
By definition there can't be local elector counts, because an elector count is a count with a electoral vote!

It's a very specific rank, that holds some special responsibilities and privileges. You will have tons of minor nobles, but only the 10 Elector Counts.
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Offline Eldred Von Schutz

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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2005, 12:44:09 PM »
I use the elector counts stats but i named my character Baron Von Schutz, thats what most people do isnt it? You just give them another title
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Offline Harleqin

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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2005, 03:59:41 PM »
Don't pay too much attention to the name. While it says Elector Count, then it might as well be something completely different as already stated. Mine is for instance just a force commander, only just above a Captain.

Hmm.... what are the military titles between Marshall and Captain?
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Offline arisos

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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2005, 04:10:12 PM »
@Harlequin
Marshall, general, colonel, major/commander, captain.

also there are several in between ranks to name a couple: major general, brigadegeneral etc...
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Offline General Helstrom

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« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2005, 05:15:01 PM »
In the Empire, as far as I know, ranks are arranged as follows:

- Marshall. The Marshall is usually the supreme commander of one province's armed forces and comes directly under the Elector Count.

- General. A general commands an army.

- Captain. Captains command parts of armies or individual regiments or companies (infantry or cavalry resp.).

- Sergeant. A sergeant is either commander or second-in-command of a regiment.

This is all rather susceptible to overlap and individual titles/ranks that are not quite categorized or standardized, but these seem to be the ones that GW uses.
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Offline Harleqin

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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2005, 05:21:45 PM »
Cheers guys :)

I think my Elector will just remain as some minor/general. Still owing allegiance to his local EC of course.
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Offline Biggs Hancock

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« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2005, 11:43:08 PM »
Quote from: Harleqin


Hmm.... what are the military titles between Marshall and Captain?


While I bow to General Helstrom's greater knowledge of the Empire rank structure, the real world ranks for most armies based on the British model (inc. US) are as follows:

Field Marshall
General
Lieutenant General
Major General
Brigadier (General)
Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
Major
Captain
Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant

Enlisted ranks vary much more between nations, but I include them for completeness.

Warrant Officer Class One / Regimental Sergeant Major
Warrant Officer Class Two / Sergeant Major
Staff/Colour Sergeant
Sergeant
Corporal
Lance Corporal
Private

Feel free to amend this list for your own armies rank structure; you are after all in charge.
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Offline lcmiracle

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Re: Empire Elector Counts
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2025, 06:51:02 AM »
Edit: wrote all these trash without realizing it's a bot necro
Medieval army rarely have the kind of formal heirachy that we have today. An army led by a king naturally follow the King, and the Dukes and counts and marsques leads their own army which answer to the king by feudal obligations either command their own as a separate allied army or be subcommaned by their direct liege according to their individual duties,  ties,  etc.

And the Empires relations are no less complicated. For example,  in Ludwig's folly from 8th edition empire army book,  it was said the grand master of the everlasting light refused to aid him when his demand to command the entire army was denied,  leading to ludwig's humiliating defeat.  Now,  based on RP 1st and 4th edition Enemy Within campaign,  Luswig was "merely" the count/chancellor of the Oster market,  not an elector count at this time -- nonetheless it shows the difficulty to regulated commands within the Imperial armies.

It is far more likely the military would be led by leaders based foremost based on their political power than ranks.  A poor Baron with a small fief would lead a regiment as their "captain" while a rich Baron with command over a number of regiments might be a general in smaller engagements. Such as the regiment lists in 8th edition rulebook about Mordkins invasion shows (boghafen hand gunner or something).

Some provinces might have a formal ranking system,  we know that Reikland has several marshals,  Reiksmarshal prominently,  and then the Huntsmarshal (but maybe creates just for Wulfhart?),  Middenheim has three Midden marshals,  Talabheim has a marshal mentioned in the Sigmars Blood campagin booklet (I think he was just called a Grandmarshal but I'm not sure),  and so did Nuln in the Drums of War campaign,  and Oleg von Raukob from Mordkin's story.  However,  Blucher von Vincke was also a Grandmarshal of the Reikland in the Background book Empire At War,  and he was a contemporary of both Hellorg and Wulfhart. So multiple marshals can exist within the same province who might be responsible for different spheres of command like the Reikland,  and the same spheres like in Midden land,  or only one may exist in some other provinces.  It's even possible no marshals exist in some provinces at all.

It is therefore more useful to simply treat the hierachy as a rough guideline,  with Generals representing anything from an Elector Count,  a Duke/Graf/Count,  or even a very powerful Baron/Viscount ect. Captains may therefore be anywhere from a battle hardened veteran to the sons of powerful nobles,  who themselves may have different titles like colonels (at least one mention in RP4E),  captains,  or even just addressed with their noble rank like Sir,  Baron,  etc.

Sergeants as far as I understand it would be mostly commoners, a position perhaps too lowly to be considered by any self-respecting gentleman of the Empire. Tho it might be such that the 4th and more junior heirs of a minor nobleman may seek employment within a regiment simply because a lack of prospects.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2025, 06:53:11 AM by lcmiracle »