Topic: One last Try - Please focus.

[Blackthorn]

Jerok, sorry about this bit I have just resurrected another locked thread. The same one that has been locked twice now.

To all of those who are unhappy about how negotiations went last time at the Brewery that was weeks ago and that has nothing to do with this set of talks.
We have had new discussions about finding common ground; the proposals and global mutual supportive fluff are favourable to both sides. We just need to take this one step further and develop mutual supportive fluff for regional levels.

(Please focus on what we have discussed, forget the previous negotiations. No one seems to object to what we have proposed but rather what happened in the past.)

On a more positive note, the Brewery is roughly 2/3 in favour of this proposal.

To the Manling ambassadors I have four more regional maps up. If you could take a look and report back as to how we should develop regional fluff. (War Room  in Bugmans- The Reik Marshes, The Great Confluence, The Talabec Borders, The Howling Heights, The Barren Hills).

Blackthorn.

[CaptScott]

Thanks for posting Blackthorn, sounds like a good idea!

[Brynjolf Irontooth]

When it comes to Dwarfs and Humans marching shoulder by shoulder (I know this is a bit hard as we are bigger  ), I'm always in!!

Cheers
BI

[wissenlander]

Our main effort in the Talabec region is at the Fort in the south, Blackthorn.  Everything looks good with the map.  I hope that negotiations continue to advance and that we can all leave the past in the past.

[cisse]

Thanks, great effort there.

I'll take a look at the Howling Heigths' map as soon as possible. But my pc isn't really cooperating right now, and I've got to try and sneak on other pc's... Exams are finished though, so I'll get on it.

[Rufas the Eccentric]

Does this mean we can toast marshmellows and sing Kumbaya?  I'm in. 

I have been troubled with the idea of battling the Dwarves since the campaign was announced.

[Blackthorn]

Its a $%&ing nightmare.
Some Dark Elf player has posted a proposed fluff alliance between the Skaven & Empire, over at Bugmans.

Currently everything is falling apart with this proposal.

Blackthorn

[wissenlander]

Well, we don't even know if we'll be able to work together, we just found this out ourselves.  And if I'm not mistaken, Dwarfs have a fluff alliance with Vampires.  How is it any different?  I know you've put a lot of work into this BlackThorn, and I appreciate it.  But it seems that there are those that want to fight no matter what, and won't fully read stuff before screaming bloody murder.  And this happens on both sides...

We're still willing to talk and work this out, but I hope that you're forum isn't going to get upset about us having fluff agreements with other forums as well.

[Tostig]

Some Dark Elf player has posted a proposed fluff alliance between the Skaven & Empire, over at Bugmans.

It wasn't so much a fluff proposal as a statement of what the Skaven fluff objectives will be - we had nothing to do with it, and quite a few (unsurprisingly) disagree with its aims. None the less, it's very in character, and is the kind of idea that will most likely gain the GW narrators' support. Unlike, dare I say it, any kind of peace between Dwarfs and Empire.

Let's not avoid the Rhinoceros in the room here, there will be fighting between Empire and Dwarf players reported, and that the control our communities hold over the outcomes is extremely limited. Rather we ought to limit ourselves to trying to steer the fluff in a manner which is agreeable - while keeping within the framework provided by GW. To this end, and I think this is where people began to get upset, actions made by communities and fluff stated by GW have to be be acknowledged as separate, at least until the former of confirmed by the later. This is partly why I've been irritated by the HE/Dwarf alliance, as I can't see it as fitting well within the pre-established fluff of the two nations hating eachother, but that is subjective.

So, if we have any kind of agreement at all it has to be one which leaves open conflict between our two races and yet has some kind of tangible advantage for both of us. How about what I proposed originally - a limitation of any warfare between Dwarfs and the Empire to that between the armies of the Empire and of the Dwarf King, with mutual defence of innocents and warfare against Evil (Chaos, Orcs, Vampires and the ilk). This wouldn't be so much of a formal contract as an agreement or an understanding - after all, a "1. You give us the crown if you find it." simply won't be accepted by GW. Equally, we can't promise to, for example, give Wood Elves 1/5th of our woodlands - there's just no way we could guarantee that GW would write things up as turning out with that conclusion.

If you can propose something that works within the limits we're given by GW, and is advantageous to both communities, I'll be happy to sign it.

[clausewitz]

Lets not get carried away with rumour from other forums.  There is no alliance between Empire and Skaven.  And we know now that the discussions between VC and Dawi were no more than fluff discussions.  And while some of us Empire generals have raised eyebrows at the HE/Dwarf alliance it is something that GW has suggested so IMO thats fair enough.

Regarding the Empire/Dwarf position Tostig has outlined the situation well.  Our best direction is to accept that their will be inevitable conflict between Empire and Dwarf players, but to do our best to prevent any lasting bad relations by minimising hostile feelings after its all over.

In this respect I would echo Tostig's ideas and add some of my own..

1.  Prisoners of war of both sides should be well treated and returned to their own lands upon ceasation of hostilities.
2.  Civilians of both sides to be left out of the conflict as much as possible.
3.  We should recohnise the true enemy.  Should an Empire and Dwarf army both spot an army from an evil race they will suspend hostilities to fight the evil army.
4.  Battles between our armies should be honourable.  Should a battle be fought between an Empire and Dwarf army the winning side shall allow the loser to retreat in good order and attend to its dead and wounded.

Nothing that places any tactical restraints on either side and hopefully avoiding any incidents that might provoke any lasting ill feeling.