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Author Topic: Engineers and war machines  (Read 6289 times)

Offline steveb

  • Posts: 4624
Engineers and war machines
« on: May 12, 2009, 03:26:17 AM »
when you buy a stank you get the engineer free(?) how about getting a free engineer with each war machine, give them some special skills like repairing lost points on war machines and bonuses to firing and rerolls/saves on misfires.  Lower the point costs for free engineers, not attached to a machine. and make not a special choice but based on number of points in the army, for instance one engineer for every thousand points not counting ones attached to war machines. just a few thoughts. steveb

Offline Nicholas Bies

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Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2009, 04:09:53 AM »

They should be like the dwarf ones.

Say 30 points for a basic human with BS4. Can upgrade with HLR, RHG, RP and use the current extra crewman rule. Cannot leave that machine however if forced to leave may crew another machine as per normal rules.
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Offline patsy02

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Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2009, 11:40:00 AM »
I don't know, there are many ways to fix the engineer.

I'm up for anything as long as it's balanced and makes the engineer a viable hero choice, whether it's a war machine upgrade or an improvement of the one we have today.
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Offline Uryens de Crux

  • Posts: 3754
Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2009, 01:32:40 PM »
The Dwarven Engineer is the best fix I think, but then the Dwarven Master Engineer which still needs a hero slot also needs fixing, so I wouldnt reccomend that part of the fix.

+30 for the warmachine, all the usual upgrades etc.
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Offline Toro_Blanco

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Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2009, 05:16:16 PM »
Get rid of the robo-horse.

There, I stated the blindingly obvious.  Beyond that, I think the engineer needs to be removed as a hero option and made an upgrade for war machines and stanks.  Give us the witch hunter instead, and make the engineer a really neat unit champion.
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Offline warhammerlord_soth

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Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2009, 06:36:36 PM »
I still like 8's suggestion of paying an extra 10 points to be able to take the engineer out back and shoot him...  :closed-eyes:


But seriously, I wouldn't mind the hero slot if he made 2 warmachines core choices. And if he could take a magic trinket just like the next hero... Worst case, give him engineered equivalents.
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Offline fauthsie

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Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2009, 10:21:52 PM »
I agree that an upgradable engineer which is similar to the dwarves one would be fine....

As for a Master Engineer-

What if he makes the special choice artillery 2 for 1- Empire players are already taking 2 cannons and the option of 2 mortors may make them usable... the rare stuff is still to experimental for mass uses
I would say 25 points of magic items would be fine if there are a number of fun and effective engineer upgrades... otherwise a standard 50 points is fine...
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Offline Odominus

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Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2009, 12:37:30 AM »
Just curious what you guys would use 25pts of magic items on an engineer for. Dragonbow? ring of Volans?
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2009, 03:41:12 AM »
Here is some work I put in to Engineers a while back:

ENGINEER
The Engineer may ‘specialise’ in one of the following fields:
-  Field Weapons
-  Experimental Weapons
-  War Machines
-  Steam Tanks
An Engineer will still retain the ‘Extra Crewman’ rule as per the Empire Armybook.

FIELD WEAPONS
An Engineer may be upgraded to a Field Weapons Specialist for 5 points.
Equipment: Hand Weapon, Handgun, Brace of Pistols and Repeater Handgun
Cannot take any additional Experimental Weapons
Cannot ride the Mechanical Steed

Special Rules:
FIELD WEAPONS
Being a specialist in the common gunpowder weapons of the Empire, the Engineer has assisted in calibrating their weapons before the battle.
Any unit the Engineer joins gains +1 to hit as long as he uses the same weapon as they do in the shooting phase.

EXPERIMENTAL WEAPONS
An Engineer may be upgraded to an Experimental Weapons Specialist for 5 points.
Equipment: Hand Weapon, Repeater Pistol, Grenade Launching Blunderbuss, Hochland Long Rifle and Pidgeon Bombs
Cannot take any additional Experimental Weapons
Cannot ride a Warhorse

Special Rules:
EXPERIMENTAL WEAPONS
The Engineer has spent his time in the Engineering School inventing and testing new weapons. He is an expert in their usage and best applications, and demonstrating them in battle should hopefully increase their usage in the Empire army.
The Engineer can use any 2 of these weapons in the shooting phase.

WAR MACHINES
An Engineer may be upgraded to a 'War Machines' Specialist for 5 points.
Can also be upgraded to have the 'Repairman' special ability
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Pistol
Cannot take any additional Experimental Weapons
Cannot ride a Warhorse or Mechanical Steed

Special Rules:
WAR MACHINES
Specialising in War Machines, the Engineer has calibrated all war machines before battle, and is able to easily suggest slight adjustments throughout the battle to increase the accuracy of these might machines of war. 
Any one War Machine within 3 inches of the Engineer can use the Engineer’s re-roll ability in the situations described in the Empire Armybook (Re-roll misfire for cannon, reroll scatter OR misfire for Mortar) as well as re-rolling on the misfire chart for the Helblaster.
REPAIRMAN
Furthermore, the Engineer has brought along his personal toolbox, allowing him to fix most War Machines on the spot, should they take damage through the course of the battle.
The Engineer, for one shooting phase may forfeit using his WAR MACHINES Special Rule, and instead may repair any 1 war machine within 3 inches. All wounds for that War Machine are restored, however it cannot fire that turn. If in the previous turn, the War Machine suffered a MISFIRE of "Cannot fire this turn or next" the engineers repairs will incur no additional penalty.

STEAM TANKS
An Engineer may be upgraded to a Steam Tank Specialist for 5 points.
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Repeater Pistol
Cannot take any additional Experimental Weapons

Special Rules:
STEAM TANKS
Spending the better part of his term at the Engineering School pouring over plans of the Steam Tank, and making constant repairs to existing Steam Tanks, there are few who can match this specialist in his knowledge of how these metal behemoths work.
The Engineer is not deployed as a seperate character, it is assumed he is now helping out inside the hull of the tank. Each Empire shooting phase, the Engineer can expend 1 steam point to repair 1 wound back onto the steam tank. Furthermore, neither the Steam Tank or Engineer may shoot in any way that round.
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Offline Toro_Blanco

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Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2009, 03:41:51 AM »
I'd prefer new, engineer themed items.  Hell, I wouldn't even mind the current system if they'd make his options halfway decent.
The first school of thought is that the ragged-assed Stirlanders, not having two coppers to rub together, nicked it when an elven envoy was passing through the area and had hopped off it to take a pee behind a tree

Offline Feanor Fire Heart

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Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2009, 07:41:51 PM »
I'd prefer new, engineer themed items.  Hell, I wouldn't even mind the current system if they'd make his options halfway decent.

read my post on the engineer 8.0 in the HQ section. :::cheers:::
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Offline Rodman49

  • Posts: 217
Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 08:26:58 AM »
Get rid of the robo-horse.

There, I stated the blindingly obvious.  Beyond that, I think the engineer needs to be removed as a hero option and made an upgrade for war machines and stanks.  Give us the witch hunter instead, and make the engineer a really neat unit champion.

F U man, I have a robo-horse.

Offline Toro_Blanco

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Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 12:37:19 PM »
Don't shoot the messenger, I was just saying what half this board is thinking.
The first school of thought is that the ragged-assed Stirlanders, not having two coppers to rub together, nicked it when an elven envoy was passing through the area and had hopped off it to take a pee behind a tree

Offline Uryens de Crux

  • Posts: 3754
Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2009, 12:42:07 PM »
Get rid of the robo-horse.

There, I stated the blindingly obvious.  Beyond that, I think the engineer needs to be removed as a hero option and made an upgrade for war machines and stanks.  Give us the witch hunter instead, and make the engineer a really neat unit champion.

F U man, I have a robo-horse.

So its your fault then.
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Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2009, 06:13:16 AM »
I'll have more time after the weekend to write on this but have come up with a unit upgrade, hero, and lord, class series of engineers as well as their scaled army boosts for taking them (in the manner of leonardo  for old timers.  Any ways off to go sword and axe fighting.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline redflag

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Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2009, 04:18:06 AM »
     How about a simple cannon or mortar upgrade for an Engineer. In effect you are getting an extra special slot by fielding an Engineer. The Steam Tank can be the Chariot upgrade for the Engineer.
     
« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 04:29:03 AM by redflag »

Offline Zalminen

  • Posts: 31
Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2009, 01:57:08 PM »
Engineer as a war machine upgrade would make a lot more sense than the current version.
The robohorse is just silly and the pigeon bombs feel too ... gimmicky.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Engineers and war machines
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2009, 11:33:06 PM »
OK I put it into the character proposals threads under Eng 8.0

journeyman, master, and Dean as well as several of the ideas I have of special abilities and equipment the engineers can unlock. 

These abilities can be purchased in a manner not unlike a vampires special abilities.

I am looking for ideas for other abilities, basically battlefield specialties that engineers can bring to a fight.  Things like earthworks, mechanical expertise, ballistics specialist, strategists, explosives experts, logistics, really anything a historical engineering core would bring.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.