Topic: TEG5: Battle Thread Empire Cavalry versus High Elves 2500

[rothgar13]

I'm going to basically agree with Fandir and zif's observations - this one was a wild and wacky one. The HE team failed rolls it quite simply shouldn't have failed very often (Ld9 Panic, multiple rolls of the Book of Hoeth), but on the other hand the Empire artillery wasn't really worth noting, either. All in all, the unlikely outcomes hurt HE more than they did Empire, but Empire did a good job of taking advantage of it, and that's to be commended.

[Playonwords]

I think the Empire did the only thing they could in this TEG against such a strong HE list - kill the things that we had half a hope of killing (like bolt throwers, phoenixes, and reavers) and avoid the white lions at all costs. We also would have had a decent chance at killing the silver helms with such large numbers of demis, but the opportunity didnt arise sadly. So as long as we avoided particular matchups, all we had to do was mitigate losses from bolt throwers and pit of shades/ring of fury.

To be honest, im surprised the HE took lore of shadow with their list. It doesnt really fit. WL are dangerous enough without mindrazor (the only real mindrazor target in your list), so if it were me id have picked a lore which synergised better with some of the other units. Of course i cant say "Metal" without hearing something about how you didnt know we'd pick so much armour or that you didnt want to tailor a list just to play empire, but it would certainly have been a great lore for your specific list no matter what army you faced. Id also have strongly considered High magic to gain a greater selection of spell choices.

All in all - both teams had the extremes of good and bad luck, but probably the Empire had it in their favour for the really important rolls.

Just like to also say: as a first timer for playing in a TEG, thanks very much to all involved, particularly George for getting me into it and HHG for being an excellent (and very patient) moderator. Specifically, it was really interesting and fun to play a game where many minds come together to think of the optimum choice for every decision, which isnt what im used to as a tournament player where im making decisions under pressure (and constantly getting it wrong due to stupidity or simple forgetfulness).

So, finally - i had a real blast playing. Ill definitely want to be involved again.

[Huntsmen]

This is the first TEG I have watched develop and may I just commend you all on a fantastic effort! I will definatly be putting my hand to get involved with the next one if I can.

As for the battle its self most points have been covered already about the absurd rolling at times but it really did make for an interesting watch and forced the game to go down a road niether side was expecting and thus forced both teams into some unique situations. When I saw the lists develop I knew the Empire would be in for a tough time as White Lion blocks remain a real challenge for us to take on without devoting a lot of shooting or resources. I think however the Lions were the HE's downfall. The two blocks forced them into a more static playing approach and as such weren't able to take advantage of their faster elements.

All in all a great addition to the Forums. I'm a long time member but have been on a very long hiatus and am glad to see this Forum is still producing excellent advice and creative ideas! 

[Krokz]

I am starting to see a small pattern here. The side that goes to the fight with more self-confidence comes out disappointed. I can see some parallels with my game outcomes on tournaments All battles must be confronted with caution and always avoid dice rolls / match ups that are less then 75% in your favor. Dice can screw you, but it can screw you less if you give it less chance.
Empire showed great generalship and this is what we are here. To see those out of the box ideas that can influence our close minded playing styles.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Important rolls that the HE side failed were close to 83 % and we failed several of them. Can´t do much about that. We played very careful and I really enjoyed the tactical back and forth the whole game.

[Krokz]

Yeah I saw. I never go anywhere without at least rerollable 9 leadership. When it fails it can cost you the game, so I ain't giving it a chance and you can even survive loosing combat by two or three

[Fandir Nightshade]

Well the bsb has a 12 inch radius if you clog your army at all times together in this bubble...even flanking units and flying monsters you must be a real master of strategy.

 

[Krokz]

Dawn Attack ain't helping either

[Fandir Nightshade]

Nope it diddily didn´t

[Noght]

Dawn Attack ain't helping either

Was one of the deciding factors for sure!

[Holy Hand Grenade]

Hindsight being 20/20:   the Helms could have started in the forest with a Lion unit on either side forming Fandir's late game attempt at a "Mexican Standoff"...

The worry was DT tests in the forest, but a first turn charge was unlikely so they could have moseyed up 9 inches for future charges.

But like it was mentioned-  who stresses over Leadership 9 Panic tests when there are other things to worry about....?

The other thing Dawn Attack did was to put the STank on the other side of the action as well.  If Empire had the STank in the mix to combine with other charges the TEG probably would have seen some more blood spilt.

Great after action comments so far.

 
HHG

[grifter]

Several observations:

Browsing over the HE thread, I feel pretty smug that Empire won, seeing how confident the pointy-ears were. 

I was really unimpressed by the big Demi unit. I don´t think they would have been that great for us even if they didn´t get Pit-ed. I think this list would be better served as purely MSU, adding another Captasus instead of the two extra Demis in that unit. In the same vein, I grow increasingly unimpressed with lvl 4 mages. I think 2 lvl 2´s + priests/bound spells will do for me in the future.
Also extremely unimpressive were the Silverhelms, who I expected to hit us like a train. They never got there because the HE list didn´t include enough chaff IMO. Less White Lions, more Reavers and Eagles would be less vulnerable against MSU type lists. Honestly, our win didn´t surprise me that much; with veterans like Nought or George on Team Empire an MSU army is very hard to beat. In a tournament of course the list would struggle because it can´t "win big", but that´s a completely different can of worms.

While both Frostie´s fleeing wasn´t exactly normal, the dice where pretty much shit on both sides. Our STank did nothing the whole game as HHG pointed out, our Captasus who got shot down by the ECBT was unlucky to fail his charge and get shot twice, we had several very unimpressive magic phases, and so on.

What I was really impressed with where the ECBT´s; without those our Captasi would have run amok in the HE lines much earlier then they did.
I also liked the Beast Mage on the Pegasus; too bad you can´t put a lvl 2 on one. 

Lastly, I don´t think this kind of list that requires very precise movement lends itself very well to being played over the internet; looking forward to a less MSU approach in the next TEG. 

[Noght]

Some thoughts:

• Sorry it took so long to move, MSU Empire has lists of moving parts.
• If this was Battleline with a centered BSB, we would have been smoked.
• Changes I would have made would have been to give the Attack Peg Captains should have had Swift Wind upgrade.
• I advocated a bit more aggressive move first turn and probably would have pushed the DGs east past the Helms on turn 3 after the Big DGs fled.
• No idea why the Mage went into the Tower with just a few Archers.
• I might have sprinted the BSB back toward the center on T1 due to our lack of shooting.

And that was a bunch of crappy LD and worthless Steam Engine rolls, wow.

[sammay23]

Well, I'm thrilled that the MSU cav list continues to show that it can adapt to a variety of circumstances and provide competition against very hard lists. I think Noght, George and whoever else was behind the helm did a great job of taking some risks, getting points early, and denying points late.

We definitely suffered from overconfidence and made a lot of relaxed choices regarding the Phoenix. There are always a few errant die rolls in any game, and we paid for ours because of our confidence in the Frosties.

Great game, and one that shows how to take an unbalanced match up and convert it into a minor victory.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

FYI-  TEG6 is getting off the ground.  Post in the Lizard or Empire Tactical threads if you want to join a team.