Topic: DOES STEAM TANK CHARGE DURING CHARGING MOVES OR DURING MOVEMENT TURN?

[Lord Eli]

SORRY THIS JUST POPED INTO MY HEAD AND IM AT WORK CANT LOOK IT UP BUT I MUST KNOW HAHA

DOEST STEAM TANK CHARGE BY DECLAREING IT DURING CHARGING TURN OR DOES IT PIVOT DURING MOVEMENT TURN AND JUST HIT IT AND WALLA NOW ITS IN COMBAT THAT TURN?

[Sig]

WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?

[Lord Eli]

CUZ IM AT WORK!!!  LOL

[Noght]

No declared charges with Random Movers.

PIVOT.  ROLL DICE.  MOVE.  If you connect, counts as charging.  WALLA!

[Lord Eli]

awsome so basicly he cant escape my charge arc since i can pivot first then just move into contact with him and its a charge? 

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Not quite.

Random Movement is often misunderstood. The sequence (BRB p. 74) is:

1. Pivot the centre of the Random Mover to face the direction in which you wish it to travel.
2. Roll the dice shown in the model's profile.
3. Measure the distance in a straight line to see whether you come into contact with an enemy (before actually moving!)

3.a If the move is found to take the unit into contact with an enemy this counts as charging, and this is resolved using the normal rules for charges and using the distance rolled as its charge range, i.e. move in a straight line with one free wheel of 90° to get into contact with the enemy, and then either you or the enemy closes the door. During this charge, you can also move to within 1" of other units.

3.b If no charge is made, move the model directly forwards a number of inches equal to the total rolled by the dice. If the random move brings the unit to within 1" of a friendly unit or impassable terrain, it stops immediately and cannot move further during that Movement phase.

Note that charge reactions cannot be declared against enemies with the Random Movement special rule.

[Syn Ace]

You basically have a 360 degree "charge arc". You don't declare a charge. You declare your steam points for that turn, test your boiler, and then do your movement when Random Movers go  (during compulsory movement I think (?). At that time, you pivot, roll your D6 for each steam point used (up to 3), measure to see if you're going to slam into something and if so, it's treated as a charge though no charge reactions (oh no! we're surprised!). Of course, they don't have to take a Terror test though. Move STank and go bowling for baddies.

Ninja'd by Fidelis. 

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

It is a charge reaction I prepared earlier, as this random question regularly pops up . 

[Lord Eli]

HAHA THANKS GUYS THAT HELPED OUT ALOT HAHA

[Eighty]

if you really want your head to hurt, you ask "Once i am in combat, do i perform my grind attacks in the movement or combat phase of my turn"

this one always gets me   

[Lord Eli]

MOVEMENT RIGHT?

[Syn Ace]

It is a charge reaction I prepared earlier, as this random question regularly pops up . 

But I'm a random mover, so illegal charge reaction!

Yep, grinding happens during movement, so doesn't add to combat resolution.

[Lord CoolGreat]

I haven't quite got the terror thing with the tank yet. Is it just a fear that still causes fear tests in things that cause fear themselves?

[Delthos]

Just remember the pivot itself doesn't count for charging. So if a unit (friendly or enemy) is 1" from the side of the stank, it can prevent you from pivoting as most pivots will then bring your stank within 1" of that unit, which you can't do unless charging. This is because you don't count as charging until you roll your random move distance, which happens after the pivot. You are pretty much stuck moving straight forward in this situation.

[Syn Ace]

If you cause Terror, normally if you charge something it has to pass a Terror check or flee, unless it also causes Fear (or Terror) in which case it does not take a Terror test. The STank can never force a Terror test since it's a Random mover. However, it still causes Fear against things that cause Fear (because it's scarier than them) and in regular models, so they need to pass Fear checks in each round of close combat with the STank or go to WS1 for that round.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Just remember the pivot itself doesn't count for charging. So if a unit (friendly or enemy) is 1" from the side of the stank, it can prevent you from pivoting as most pivots will then bring your stank within 1" of that unit, which you can't do unless charging. This is because you don't count as charging until you roll your random move distance, which happens after the pivot. You are pretty much stuck moving straight forward in this situation.

Not quite. Firstly (and this cannot be stressed enough) BRB p. 13 specifies: "This rule is purely for clarity."  It is not to impede or even block movement.

Secondly, I would also point out that the Random Movement rules specificaly leave out enemy units from its version of the 1" rule (BRB p. 74): "If the random move brings the unit to within 1" of a friendly unit or impassable terrain, it stops immediately and cannot move further during that Movement phase."

For a discussion in detail: http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=47107.50

[Ambrose]

Okay, so the actual movement of the Stank happens in the movement sub phase?

Step one = declare all charges for my army (not Stank because it cannot declare charges).
Step two = resolve those charges.
Step three = remaining movement sub-phase.  This is where I move my Stank?  And if it connects with an enemy it is a 'charge', even thought it happens in the remaining movement sub-phase?  Is this correct?  If so, the tactical benefits are pretty neat.

Ambrose

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Yes: models with Random Movement cannot declare charges, and are always moved in the Compulsory Moves sub-phase. If the Steam tank is during this phase measured to get into contact with an enemy, it counts as a charge and is resolved by the normal rules for charging.

[Syn Ace]

Secondly, I would also point out that the Random Movement rules specificaly leave out enemy units from its version of the 1" rule (BRB p. 74): "If the random move brings the unit to within 1" of a friendly unit or impassable terrain, it stops immediately and cannot move further during that Movement phase."

Definitely something for me to highlight in the ol' rulebook.

[Kal]

Ok so i now have a question. Random Movement HAS to happen correct? you can not choose not to move? so if i spell is cast on a warmachine that makes it move d6 random movement. it HAS to move and therefore can not shoot. correct?

[zifnab0]

Ok so i now have a question. Random Movement HAS to happen correct? you can not choose not to move? so if i spell is cast on a warmachine that makes it move d6 random movement. it HAS to move and therefore can not shoot. correct?

Yes.

[Syn Ace]

Does Random movement require a mandatory move (which happening in the Compulsory movement phase would indicate it does), or does it just indicate the distance is random if you decide to move?

Never comes up with me because the STank can't move if you don't put steam points into the engine.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

As Zifnab0 indicates, the "player has no control over the movement of such troops and so these are referred to as compulsory moves" (BRB p. 24). And as you indicate, the Steam Tank is an exception, due to its special rule.

[Syn Ace]

That's what I suspected.

My friends just don't seem to use Random Movers at this time -- shocking, I know, that our Skaven player doesn't use a HPA.

I need to get an iPad so I can have my rulebook with me at all time so I can look rules queries up and quote from it like Fidelis. Though he probably has a photographic memory.

[Kal]

Thanks guys!!! And yes my tablet has every Warhammer book in it. I love it!