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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Mordheim
« on: May 24, 2015, 10:59:43 AM »
As there was a lot of mordheim being played at the Eurobash and I played it for the first time ever.

AND....... I liked it alot!

Would love to play it more and discuss it more. SO this is why I opened this topic to maybe get some resources (of old and hopefully new) together.
Things I found while surfing the web:

Recources (lifted from the eurobash thread)
https://docs.google.com/folderview?id=0B18J5DU-6cP_aEg2dHIxbGpaMlk&usp=drive_web
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=02B7C1D22EA7D959&id=2b7c1d22ea7d959!455&authkey=!AByFcnV1qMjZdzg

Website with helpfull tips and tricks
www.mordheimer.com

Buying scenery:
http://www.battlemart.com/terrain.html?page=all
http://www.4ground.co.uk/Default.aspx?page=340
http://www.kobblestone.ca/index.htm (more ww2 oriented on the ruined stuff)
http://store.warlordgames.com/collections/black-powder/terrain?page=2 (need to look hard to find the few pieces of ruined stuff)
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2015, 12:19:29 PM »
One Finnish guy has this list of all available Mordheim stuff in the web:
http://www.sotavasara.net/keskustelu/viewtopic.php?f=122&t=107221

Of course, it's in Finnish, but I guess you can siphon a great deal of information from it, if you just have the time to click the links.

"TC" stands for Town Cryer, the Mordheim magazinette. I guess someone will eventually upload them all somewhere into the www. Now some are a bit hard to find and/or costly.

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Offline Novogord

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2015, 12:42:11 PM »
These are the house rules Commander Bernhardt, Commandt, myself and some others use in our campaigns:

Mordheim: Proposed House Rules

General Rules
Measurements and distances:
You can always check the distances before performing any actions such as shooting or charging. Distances between models and all other objects are always measured from the closest point on one base to the closest point on the other base. (Source: Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition, page 6)

Who Can Fight
Warrior can fight 360° around themselves. All enemies within 1” of each other are considered to be in combat with each other. (Source: Wyrdwars rulebook) Remember that models cannot move within 1” of an enemy model except when they are doing a charge move.
 
The Turn

The Movement Phase
Charging
All models have a random charge move. Roll a D6 and add the number in inches to their basic movement value to determine the charge range. If a model fails to reach its target enemy it just moves it’s basic movement towards the enemy.

Escaping from combat
Warriors that are engaged in hand-to-hand combat at the start of their own turn may try to escape from combat during their movement phase. Such fighters are assumed to have realized that the odds are against them and decided that it is just too dangerous for them to continue.
Declare which of your warriors will try to escape from combat at the start of your movement phase, at the same time as you declare charges. Turn the models around to show this.
Take a Leadership test for each warrior trying to escape from combat. This represents his efforts to find the right time to escape. If he passes, the warrior can move up to double his normal Movement rate away from combat and the enemy he was fighting, in any direction.
If he fails, his opponent is allowed to make 1 automatic hit against the warrior who is trying to escape, and the fleeing warrior (provided he survives) will run 2D6" directly away from combat. He will have to take a Leadership test at the beginning of his next turn.
If successful he will stop, but may not do anything else during that turn. If the test is failed, he will continue to run 2D6" towards the closest table edge and must test again the following turn if he is still on the table. If a warrior is charged whilst he is fleeing, the charger is moved into base contact with him as normal, but the fleeing warrior will then immediately run a further 2D6" towards the table edge, before any blows can be struck. (Source: Mordheim Rulebook, Optional Rules, page 117)


The Shooting Phase
May Lean through Windows
A warrior that is less that 1” from the windowpane of a building may determine line of
sight from the edge of the window, even if he is positioned inside the building. (Source: Wyrdwars rulebook)
Weapons and equipment

Critical hits
Use the advanced critical hit charts: Mordheim Rulebook, optional rules page 116


Close Combat

"Fighting with two weapons"
Add the line "Due to the difficulty in fighting with more than one weapon, any warrior attempting to do so suffers a -1 penalty to hit with both weapons. A warrior using a pistol in hand-to-hand combat is exempt from this penalty."

New Combat Skill "Maniac Warrior:

 The Warrior is adept at fighting with a weapon in each hand. He may ignore the -1 to hit penalty that such practice normally incurs." Johann The Knife, Bertha Bestraufung and Veskit should all be granted the "Maniac Warrior" skill.

Changes to armour
Page 51, under Shield. Add the line. "In addition to this save, a warrior armed with a shield and a hand-weapon has a basic save of 5+ (or may add +2 to his armour save if other armour is worn). Mounted models may not gain this benefit. Hand weapons are defined as hammers, staffs, maces, clubs, axes, swords, morning stars and spears. Variants such as rapiers or Dwarf axes are also included.
Page 51, under Buckler. Add the line "In addition to this, a warrior armed with a buckler and a hand-weapon has a basic save of 6+ (or may add +1 to his armour save if other armour is worn).
Page 50, under "Light Armour" add "In addition the warrior gains a 6+ save against Serious Injury during the post-battle phase. Treat a successful save exactly as if the warrior had received the "Full Recovery" result. He may not explore, trade nor take part in any other post-battle activities".
Page 50, under "Heavy Armour" add "In addition the warrior gains a 5+ save against Serious Injury during the post-battle phase. Treat a successful save exactly as if the warrior had received the "Full Recovery" result. He may not explore, trade nor take part in any other post-battle activities".
Page 51, under "Ithilmar Armour" add "In addition the warrior gains a 5+ save against Serious Injury during the post-battle phase. Treat a successful save exactly as if the warrior had received the "Full Recovery" result. He may not explore, trade nor take part in any other post-battle activities".
Page 51, under "Gromril Armour" add "In addition the warrior gains a 4+ save against Serious Injury during the post-battle phase. Treat a successful save exactly as if the warrior had received the "Full Recovery" result. He may not explore, trade nor take part in any other post-battle activities".
----

We feel that these rules bring some more balance to the games.
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2015, 02:03:05 PM »
Looking at the rules again, I realised my vampire had the same immunity to stun rule as the zombies. I missed that!


On the house rules (having played with and without them):

I like the 1" combat rule, since it avoids a lot of arguments (my model is one molecule away from your base so is only fighting one enemy!). I'm not sure about the random charge distance though.

Where is the sling fix! They clearly need to cost more than 2 gold. 10 would more accurately reflect their power.
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2015, 02:11:05 PM »
One Finnish guy has this list of all available Mordheim stuff in the web:
http://www.sotavasara.net/keskustelu/viewtopic.php?f=122&t=107221

Of course, it's in Finnish, but I guess you can siphon a great deal of information from it, if you just have the time to click the links.

"TC" stands for Town Cryer, the Mordheim magazinette. I guess someone will eventually upload them all somewhere into the www. Now some are a bit hard to find and/or costly.

-Z

Thanks!
The town cryers are actually in those google drive and onedrive links!
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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2015, 03:07:45 PM »
I like the 1" combat rule, since it avoids a lot of arguments (my model is one molecule away from your base so is only fighting one enemy!). I'm not sure about the random charge distance though.

Where is the sling fix! They clearly need to cost more than 2 gold. 10 would more accurately reflect their power.

I agree - although my experiences with slings have been underwhelming in most games when I compare the actual results to all the online hand-wringing I read about beforehand. 10 gold seems reasonable. Maybe 8 or so to reflect it's a simpler weapon than a bow (which also costs 10 IIRC).

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2015, 03:54:21 PM »
Costing the same as a normal bow would be OK. No discounts due to fluff though thank you!

Also, it's lame that only skaven and sisters of sigmar can even use slings.


Are we likely to use the same warbands again next time? Mine got quite good after winning a four-player game!
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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2015, 04:48:19 PM »
I dunno, we might! I might start a fresh one, or use those... don't mind either way. It's a year to go anyway.
 :-P

Offline Commander Bernhardt

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2015, 05:39:51 PM »
if you want to talk more about mordheim
and look at pretty pictures

google " Tom's Boring Mordheim Forum"

if you like an alternative setting
google " burder town burning"
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2015, 06:14:29 PM »
I would like to continue, would think of it as a waste not continuing this one :)
Though we might want to get some more structure in the playing? More of a scenario instead of random games?
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Offline Finlay

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2015, 07:14:24 PM »
from previous EB experiences, structure is bad.
I don't care about the rules.

Pass the machete.

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2015, 07:15:27 PM »
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2015, 07:40:33 PM »
and what about the other settings? Lustria and khemri? (less known: Karag azgal or Mousillon)
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"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2015, 07:49:01 PM »
You want links to rules for those settings or opinions about them?

I didn't check the one drive link above, but if memory serves all of those settings are linked/hosted there.  If not they are also here--
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=02B7C1D22EA7D959&id=2B7C1D22EA7D959%21455&authkey=%21AByFcnV1qMjZdzg

The original sites for Lustria, Khemri, et, al are gone, but the files are still hosted in various places like the one drive.
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"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2015, 10:26:53 PM »
You want links to rules for those settings or opinions about them?

I didn't check the one drive link above, but if memory serves all of those settings are linked/hosted there.  If not they are also here--
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=02B7C1D22EA7D959&id=2B7C1D22EA7D959%21455&authkey=%21AByFcnV1qMjZdzg

The original sites for Lustria, Khemri, et, al are gone, but the files are still hosted in various places like the one drive.

Wanted mostly opinions on it. How people perceived those settings. But any other helpfull tidbits are always welcome!
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2015, 01:00:36 AM »
Opinions:
Lustria--
It is the most complete of the fan created, GW supported settings.  It has all the parts one needs to play a campaign, although GW never printed one scenario, Dems My Gubbinz! (I have an e-copy if you are interested.)
The warbands are generally held to be more powerful than the Mordheim warbands, although I feel this is largely a matter of opinion.  My group tends to restrict campaign warbands to the setting they were created for, so I don't have much experience with most of the warbands in any other setting except for the Tileans and Dark Elves, which we allow everywhere.
The Norse warband is the weakest of the lot and the Bordertown Burning version is much better balanced.
The Nemesis Crown version of the Forest Goblins is also far superior to the Lustrian version.
We use a combination of the Lustrian Amazons and the Mordheim Amazons as our Lustrian Amazons.  (The Mordheim version eliminated all the skills and changed the special rules which eliminated all of the Lustrian flavor.)
I do not recommend using the Hazards written for Lustria.  The rules are incomplete and make a mess of any attempt to play any scenario they are included in.

Khemri--
There are two versions of the Khemri rules: the Town Cryer and the original website.  Both are annoyingly incomplete but in different ways.  The Town Cryer version did not publish a key table that is required to play the campaign.  You have to have the original version of the campaign in order to access the re-supply table.  The Khemri version does not include an Exploration Table.
Warbands:
 The original website's version of the warbands is stronger than the watered down versions published in TC.  Of the original warbands I do not recommend the Hobgoblins or the Sorcerers.  Nor do I recommend the Elemental lists from the original site.  The Elemental list from TC is not OP.  The TC warbands are so poorly written and so weak that they should only be played against each other or by a player deliberately trying to play a weak warband.

Special Rules:
The campaign setting featured two limits on trading and warband growth. Resupply and water resources.  We stopped using the water rules after a couple of tries.  My lads suck at record keeping.  So they would either get totally confused about how much water they needed OR they would all look for ways to circumvent using the water rules at all.  After one Undead warbands only campaign (except for my Arabs) we stopped using them.
Resupply means that you must roll on a table after a game to see where you can trade.  You might be lost in the desert with NO water; you might find a merchant or nomads who will only have Rare 8 or lower items, charge 25% more and have no heroes for hire at all; or you might find a town or caravan which have no restrictions on trading and have ample water or free water (oasis). (I really like this idea. I use it in all wilderness campaigns now.)

Underground battles:
The original Khemri website had complicated rules for fighting underground.  The TC#17 published a simpler version of those rules (also used in the Nemesis Crown).  17 also has a nice table of complex traps to use in dungeon battles.

Most Broken things:
The Monkey's Paw, the Lamp of the Djinn and the Flying Carpet.

We used a pick and choose method for deciding which rules to apply.  We use most warbands from the original website, re-supply and some underground rules and the weather.  From the TC we use the new miscellaneous equipment and the edited scenarios.  We also use the chariot for the Tomb Guardians but make Drive Chariot a general skill rather than an academic one (which meant that a Mummy could not drive a chariot...)

Karag Azgal or Mousillon:
These settings were not completed in any sense by their creators.  Mousillon has some interesting warbands, it also has the broken Blood Dragons. (I suggest that when the authors of a warband tell you its over powered that you take them at their word.) In general both settings are interesting, but would take a bunch of work to make them playable.

Relics of the Crusades--
This fan created setting is very well done.  My review may be found here--
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t140-supplement-relics-of-the-crusades
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Offline Syphon

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2015, 11:56:39 AM »
Steg, where do you live again? I mean, specifically? I think we don't live that far apart. I'd be okay with going to you and playing Mordheim with you. I've got a conquistador-themed warband in the works. If I ever finish it.
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2015, 03:02:35 PM »
Rules question: if a model is charged by a fear-causer while already in combat, does it take a fear test? Several people told me no, but I can't see anything to support that. The FAQ even says you have to take multiple fear tests if charged by multiple fear-causers at once.
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Offline Siberius

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2015, 03:16:00 PM »
The problem I always had with mordheim compared with necromunda was that you had some dudes that didn't seem to level up as much as a few core guys.

Is there an option to ignore that and make each guy an individual?
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Offline Darknight

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2015, 03:17:26 PM »
Is there an option to ignore that and make each guy an individual?

Not in the official rules, but it would be a pretty easy fix, I would have thought - just make it so each henchman is his own group. Although you can do that ANYWAY, right? You can have a group of one . . .

The benefit to having henchmen groups of more than 1 was an accounting issue - you didn't have to worry about so many different sets of stats.
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2015, 03:26:09 PM »
Speaking of henchmen groups: if a group starts as just one guy, can you still add new henchmen to that group later? Or can you only add henchmen up to the original number of the group?
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Offline commandant

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2015, 04:15:53 PM »
Rules question: if a model is charged by a fear-causer while already in combat, does it take a fear test? Several people told me no, but I can't see anything to support that. The FAQ even says you have to take multiple fear tests if charged by multiple fear-causers at once.

I could have gotten it wrong, but it does make sense that no would be the answer.   The logic is that you are immune to fear while in combat [this is also the logic for why you don't need to take a fear test at the start of every round]

Speaking of henchmen groups: if a group starts as just one guy, can you still add new henchmen to that group later? Or can you only add henchmen up to the original number of the group?

You can always add more guys up to your warband maximum.   It is a useful tactic to have many different henchmen groups at the start and add henchmen to the groups that get useful advances.   Though it is more expensive and difficult to add henchmen to experienced groups.

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2015, 04:26:51 PM »
Speaking of henchmen groups: if a group starts as just one guy, can you still add new henchmen to that group later? Or can you only add henchmen up to the original number of the group?

Yes you may add members to the group.  See New Recruits and Existing Henchmen Groups, Mordheim rule book 2005, Part 3 Campaigns, p. 102.
(if you are using a printed rulebook from '99 the paragraph heading is the same, the page will be different.)

Is there an option to ignore that and make each guy an individual?

Not in the official rules...
There's no rule against it since henchmen may be bought in groups of 1 to whatever the limit on the number of warriors is.  It is beneficial to buy them in groups of 1 if you are looking for that LGT hero.

As for the difference between Necromunda and Mordheim in terms of how different classes of warrior advance, that seems pretty intentional and there is no option to make everyone use the hero advance chart.  In Mordheim income depends on heroes as opposed to territories controlled.

Having less opportunity for all members of a warband to advance means less book keeping and is less confusing during games.  Before Mordheim came out I would use Necromunda for my Warhammer skirmish games, but once Mordheim came out I never looked back.  The game plays faster and is there is less to keep track of.

Rules question: if a model is charged by a fear-causer while already in combat, does it take a fear test? Several people told me no, but I can't see anything to support that. The FAQ even says you have to take multiple fear tests if charged by multiple fear-causers at once.

Yes, you must take a fear test.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 04:29:26 PM by Von Kurst »
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Offline Siberius

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2015, 04:51:28 PM »
Good to know.

It might sound odd but the post game is kinda my favorite bit! Having individuals becoming more and more individual is part of the appeal.

Outside of that I'm still not sure why mordheim didn't appeal to me as much as necromunda, especially with my strong fantasy lean. I wonder if it's just the fluff they conjured up for it, who knows...
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Offline Darknight

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Re: Mordheim
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2015, 04:57:28 PM »
Mordheim needed an option to have a "generic" setting - gangs fighting for control of "turf" in a city, or small bands of brigands controlling highways etc. It wouldn't be too difficult to change the background without really changing the rules.
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