Topic: Lore question - steam tank

[drweir4]

I’m building a steam tank at the moment and I can’t work something out

Is it ever explained in the lore how they reload the steam tank cannon?

[commandant]

I feel the answer is no.

[Tiberius]

I mean, it must be a breach loader right?

Why do you ask?

[drweir4]

Well that was my conclusion too, but the empire don’t seem to have any other breach loading guns, and that would represent a big technological leap

Why can’t we have more breach loaded artillery - means we could get some better shell types to kill dragons with

[Tiberius]

Well... tanks are a pretty big technological leap too...

I haven't pried my model open in a while, but does the cannon part of the model have a breech loading part?

We totally needs some better dragon killings shells though.  Ones that can actually kill a dragon in 2-3 shots.

Oh and PS, a steam powered cannon???

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Well that was my conclusion too, but the empire don’t seem to have any other breach loading guns, and that would represent a big technological leap

Why can’t we have more breach loaded artillery - means we could get some better shell types to kill dragons with

The same question arises with regards why the number of Steam Tanks is limited to the original 12 built by Leonardo of Miragliano.

It is rather self-evident that the Steam Tank needs continuous maintenance and repair. Indeed, after 500 years, it is unlikely that there is still an original part left in them. Either the Empire has engineers and technicians capable to keep them up and running: in which case, they would be able to build new ones too. Or the Empire does not have the qualified personnel: in which case, the Steam Tanks would not have lasted 5 years, let alone 500.

But

Ours not to reason why, ours but to do and buy.

[Dazgrim]

Ancient tech that is maintained but is irreplaceable is a trope. Heck 40K is 100% that trope.

Also it allows them to do the cool thing, in this case Steam Tank, without having to accelerate the technology of the setting to the point that everyone is armed with boltguns.

Well that was my conclusion too, but the empire don’t seem to have any other breach loading guns, and that would represent a big technological leap

Why can’t we have more breach loaded artillery - means we could get some better shell types to kill dragons with

Presumably this is a function of the cannon being a steam cannon rather than a black powder one.

Though dragon killing munitions would be nice, maybe some of them could do d6 wounds with no armour save allowed.

[xnet445]

I feel the answer is no.

I have the 6th edition heavy metal version of the stank. The cannon is a muzzle loader.

[Tiberius]

Though dragon killing munitions would be nice, maybe some of them could do d6 wounds with no armour save allowed.

So, old cannons?  I really think one or the other of those things could do a lot for cannons.

[OMoran]

I think they can pull the cannon back into the hull and then reload inside the tank. Something similar to how they used to do it on ships in 1600-1700.

This would also explain why it is a smaller calibre and smaller barrel so it has lower strenght, range and only D3 multiple wounds.

[lcmiracle]

According to WD#262, it's a breech-loader (p38 & 39):



As for building new stanks, no one understands the handwritings of Leonardo because he was a Tilean and also wrote poorly, so no one can build it form scratch. Given 4 out of 12 was damaged beyond repair, clearly some key parts were very sturdy but cannot be rebuilt, for whatever reason.

[drweir4]

Amazing, thanks

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

On a historical note: breech-loaders first appear in the early 14th century, but, because of technical difficulties, they remained a niche product, limited to smaller bore guns (most notably swivel-guns). The main advantage was, of course, a higher rate of fire. However, at the time, it was not technically feasible to make the connection between the breech-loaded powder chamber and the barrel completely gas-proof. So, every time the gun fired, hot gases from the exploding charge escaped through the junctures. This not just posed a danger to the crew (especially in confined spaces - like the Steam Tank), but with every shot the problem got worse, since the explosion widened the fissures. In addition, this increased the chances of the the removable powder chamber being jammed in place.

[Tiberius]

In the lore the cannon in the Steam tank doesn’t fire by gunpowder, but by steam pressure, that least I thought I read that in one of my old books?  If so that would make the cannon impossible to fire at all if there were any leaks.

[lcmiracle]

In the lore the cannon in the Steam tank doesn’t fire by gunpowder, but by steam pressure, that least I thought I read that in one of my old books?  If so that would make the cannon impossible to fire at all if there were any leaks.

Not just by lore, but also mechanic, since you need to expand steam points in order to use anything on the tank at all. Generating SP and spending them has been the traditional rule of the ST until 8th edition. In fact, in 8th edition, the more SPs you spend on the cannon, the longer its range.

I'd imagine being able to direct the steam blast at the cannon ball probably relieved some of the pressure on the breechloader's rear, thus making it possible to manufacture a pressure seal that is sufficient for the steam cannon, but does not mean the requirement on a traditional black powder gun.

Also, I don't think the problem with replicating the STanks is the steam engine. Going by Tamurkhan's landship description, I'd imagine it's how compact the steam tank had been made that made it hard to replicate without the knowledge to miniaturize certain parts. Landships were so huge because the engineers could have more room to fit all the engines and weapons they needed.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

@Tiberius:  That was indeed the case from the beginning. However, whether propelled by steam or powder, the projectile must still be inserted either through the muzzle or the breech.

[Tiberius]

@Tiberius:  That was indeed the case from the beginning. However, whether propelled by steam or powder, the projectile must still be inserted either through the muzzle or the breech.

Right, I was just curious how the steam builds up. Seems like all the problems for breech loaders would be magnified in a steam cannon. It has caused me to do a Wikipedia dive into steam cannons. Apparently such a thing is possible, however proved to be ineffective. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_cannon

[PowerSeries]

Leonardo da Vinci was also known to have designed (a steam cannon)

I see why they went with that.

[Rowsdower]

My take on the matter
1: Psychological warfare. The contraption staggers and puffs forward. The enemy then panics at the sight of the 'Iron dragon' ala DR NO and bravely run away from it like Sir Robin.
2: Its possible that the hull cannon is a muzzle loader and after one blast, the enemy run away from it again.
3: If it is a muzzle loader then some poor sod has to dismount the vehicle in order to commence the lengthy re-loading procedure
4: Two thumbs up for the Leonardo drawings. I used to have a White Dwarf which had several pages, dedicated to similar machines with hyperbolic names

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

@Tiberius:  That was indeed the case from the beginning. However, whether propelled by steam or powder, the projectile must still be inserted either through the muzzle or the breech.

Right, I was just curious how the steam builds up. Seems like all the problems for breech loaders would be magnified in a steam cannon. It has caused me to do a Wikipedia dive into steam cannons. Apparently such a thing is possible, however proved to be ineffective. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_cannon

Ah, yes, I had forgotten about that one. here is a translation of the accompanying text:

Architronito is a machine of pure copper, invented by Archimedes, and throws iron balls with great noise and fury. It is operated as follows. The third part of the device is located in a big quantity of fire by coal, and when it is well made red-hot by it (coal), the valve d is closed, that is on the water reservoire abc; and by closing the valve above e’ it will be stopped below, and all the water will go down in the heated part of the device, and there suddenly will be converted in so much smoke (vapour) that it will appeas as astonishing, and even more by seeing the fury and hearing the noise.
This (device) threw a ball weighting one talent (≈26÷38 kg), (with a range of) six stadia (≈1100 m). ...

This invention by Archimedes was also mentioned by earlier medieval sources (like Francesco Petrarca), but not Classical sources (with the possible exception of a single - and, if so,  very oblique - reference).

[SaintofM]

Alot of stuff in Warhammer runs on rule of cool (Warhammers the size of melons for instance) so somethings are just going to have to be taken as is. The Logic part of me says it has to be breach loaded to work, but that doesn't stop me from thinking the halfling mascot of the tank gets the crap job of loading it from the outside, as enemy raid a hail of arrows on you, and its moving full speed. Or maybe a goblin threaten at pistol point,

[Rowsdower]

My old steam tank has an addition to its base. A soot covered man, running behind it with a bucket of coal