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Author Topic: fixing the knights  (Read 4284 times)

Offline jimbo81

  • Posts: 4
fixing the knights
« on: November 02, 2009, 09:58:25 PM »
All other races have access to multiple attack knights - makes them so much harder on the charge.  I suggest making white wolf cav hammers st5 and allowing white wolf knights to wield 2 of them.

Offline Helborg

  • Posts: 669
Re: fixing the knights
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2009, 10:21:22 PM »
Whoa! That contradicts the fluff a bit, seeing as the hammers are supposed to be so big that they require the wielder to be on horseback to fully benefit from them and going double on them seems a bit much.

2 S5 attacks each is harsh... what were you thinking for the pts cost on that? And remember these other races that have uber cavalry are magically driven or have gifts from dark gods, or have drunk from the holy grail... we on the other hand are your joe average humans...

For white wolves I say give the knights an option of buying them for +2pts, similar to the old rules, and of course they can be made inner circle :)

Not a bad idea for a different order of knights who use smaller cav hammers but use more of them  :::cheers:::

Sanj
i should really pull my trousers up now.  :icon_eek:

Offline Freman Bloodglaive

  • Posts: 1033
Re: fixing the knights
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2009, 08:06:24 AM »
I think that all they really need is for great weapons to get the rule that cavalry hammers had last edition.

+2 strength on the charge, +1 strength the rest of the time.
"Reason is a thing of God, inasmuch as there is nothing which God the Maker of all has not provided, disposed, ordained by reason - nothing which He has not willed should be handled and understood by reason" Quintus Tertullian

Offline Helborg

  • Posts: 669
Re: fixing the knights
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2009, 05:35:57 PM »
I think that all they really need is for great weapons to get the rule that cavalry hammers had last edition.

+2 strength on the charge, +1 strength the rest of the time.

It's a good idea, but it's better if it's an empire exculsive thing  :engel:


Sanj
i should really pull my trousers up now.  :icon_eek:

Offline Shadoweyed

  • Posts: 341
Re: fixing the knights
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2009, 11:47:04 AM »
I was supprised this wasn't just a "get rid of rubber lances" post. But still, 2 Str 5 attacks from Empire knights? Maybe, just maybe, I could see giving Inner Circle the extra attack.

-Shadoweyed

Online commandant

  • Posts: 7366
Re: fixing the knights
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2009, 12:58:51 PM »
There is an order of rich toffs that perfected the art of using two handweapons on horseback.   It might be nice to give them to cav hammers +1 Strength and let them off

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
Re: fixing the knights
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2009, 09:46:27 PM »
I don't know i think our knight should be allowed to keep their testicles in order to make new knights they shouldn't get themselves fixed. ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic::
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Inarticulate

  • Posts: 1600
Re: fixing the knights
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2009, 09:49:17 PM »
How droll... :dry:


 :::cheers:::

I don't think I would like our knights wielding two cavalry hammers, for one, it would look completely retarded and pretty impossible to fight with.
I for one welcome our new flying cat overlords.

Offline Derek Contyre

  • Posts: 1752
  • Duke of Nueremburg
Re: fixing the knights
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2009, 12:11:33 PM »
not to mention ranking up. . . dear god what a nightmare.
Also, what about those knights firghting with two swords? or a mace and sword? do we get special rules for them?

I made a knightly order up a few months ago called the Templar order of Knights Tueton.
Their stats were as follows:
M WS BS S T  W  I  A LD
4   6   3  4  4  3  6  4  9 Grandmaster (As empire book)
4   5   3  4  3  1  5  1  8 Knight
4   5   3  4  3  1  5  2  8 Preceptor
4   5   3  4  3  1  5  2  8 Inner circle knight
4   5   3  4  3  1  5  3  8 Meister
Knights Tueton: 28pts each.
quipment: full plate, shield, lance, mace* and warhorse.
Their horse may have barding for +2pts a model.
Standard+16, musician+8, Preceptor+16

May upgrade knights to inner circle for +4 pts, knights gain +1A.
Standard+16, Musician+8, Meister+16.
If Inner circle, may take the Banner of the Crusades +50pts

Special rules:
Mace- The templars of the order of the Tueton fight from horseback using their lances with deadly efficiency, being able to break most foes on the charge. However, when their foes are more stubborn or stupid then this modified mace is used in combat.
The origins of the wicked black maces used by the Knights Tueton can be found in araby, during the crusades. The knights copied off of the brettonian morning star but turned it into something far more deadly.
The mace wielded by any Knight of Tueton is a hand weapon which confers armour piercing.

Banner of the Crusades- This standard was one of the original standards of the Tuetons when they went to war in araby.
It is almost one thousand years old and every victory ever won by the order is carefully embroidered on to the list. The legacy of The knights Tueton is woven onto this banner and as such it makes the knights immensly proud and courageous.
Any unit of inner knights with the Banner of the Crusades is stubborn.

Grandmaster- If the Grandmaster of Knights Tueton leads a unit of Knights Tueton they are immune to psychology.
If the Grandmaster is in a unit of Inner circle knights with the banner of the Crusades they are stubborn on the grandmaster's leadership and also Immune to psychology.
A man who builds his army around his fluff . . . respect . . .  :::cheers:::

Offline Laerniss

  • Posts: 377
Re: fixing the knights
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2009, 01:36:02 AM »
I made a knightly order up a few months ago called the Templar order of Knights Tueton.
Their stats were as follows:
M WS BS S T  W  I  A LD
4   6   3  4  4  3  6  4  9 Grandmaster (As empire book)
4   5   3  4  3  1  5  1  8 Knight
4   5   3  4  3  1  5  2  8 Preceptor
4   5   3  4  3  1  5  2  8 Inner circle knight
4   5   3  4  3  1  5  3  8 Meister

I would disagree with upgrading knights past WS4 or above 1 Attack for two reasons:

1) Anything beyond that is the realm of elite, the captains, generals and grandmasters. Generals should not be able to recruit entire units of that skill level. While Chaos mortals can achieve such skill, it is arguable as to whether or not they qualify as "human" anymore. Bretonian units of such skill may be found, but let's face it, Brets are "special"!
:biggriin:

2) One of the greatest advantages of Empire Knights is they are cheap! If the unit comes with 2 Attacks or higher weapon skills we'll end up paying similar costs to high elf cavalry without the ASF rule.

I would suggest a simple fix via special rule specific to the Empire knight units. Many Empire players already get the re-rolls through inclusion of a Warrior Priest. This would have the same effect, without having the unit suffer from Hatred.

Knightly Drills : model may re-roll missed close combat attacks when charging.



- Laerniss

Offline Derek Contyre

  • Posts: 1752
  • Duke of Nueremburg
Re: fixing the knights
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2009, 08:39:08 AM »
Dont get me wrong, this wasn't a change to all the knights but simply a knightly unit I had made up one lazy saturday afternoon purely for fluff purposes
A man who builds his army around his fluff . . . respect . . .  :::cheers:::

Offline Skyros

  • Posts: 1289
Re: fixing the knights
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2009, 03:38:09 PM »
I can't help but think the rules for great weapons on mounted characters needs some revising, considering they are in all ways worse than halberds now.

I think knights should get the same WS/I as swordsmen. You can't tell me they aren't as well trained :D