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8th Ed - Steam Tank Questions
« on: April 09, 2021, 03:20:09 PM »
Does anyone still answer 8th Ed questions? Is Fidelis still around?
So Lore of Life and the Steam Tank...  :icon_mrgreen:
Just kidding, here goes:

Steam Tank shooting
In 8th Ed all members of a unit have to shoot at the same target if no rule allows them to do otherwise (sniper).
If I fire the steam gun at something (lets say, a monster) would I also have to fire the steam turret at the same target, if possible, or could I chose a different target?

I argue one could chose a different target, as a cannon does not nominate a specific ENEMY to shoot at but rather a POINT on the battlefield and then hopefully bounce into an enemy.
While the steam turret thing has to be aimed at an ENEMY.
So I could technically pick different targets as the cannon does not pick a target but rather a point.

Would that be correct under RAW?

Random Movement of the Steam Tank
Not only subject to the steam tank but has it been clarified how random movement into a fleeing unit works?
A fleeing unit can only chose FLEE as a reaction.
Random movement does not allow a charge reaction.

1) Would the Stank stop 1 inch before the fleeing unit as it impossible to move closer to any unit than 1 inch unless charged?
2) Would the fleeing unit be destroyed (can find no evidence to support this)?
3) Would the fleeing unit "pop through" and take dangerous terrain tests?

Common sense could dictate this should be treated as the fleeing unit gets destroyed but can find no evidence in the RAW.
Rules seem to indicate option (1)

Was this ever clarified?

Thanks


« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 06:04:25 PM by MadCountLeitdorf »

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: 8th Ed - Steam Tank Questions
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2021, 04:48:52 PM »
Steam Tank Shooting:

RAW, they need to shoot at the same target, since, unfortunately, the previous exemptions do not exist anymore.  It is true that for the Steam Cannon you can nominate a point on the ground, but that is still a target. Indeed, the Steam Gun could be aimed at such a spot, if it is close enough (since the Steam cannon does not have a minimum range).

Here is one we have prepared earlier: http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=50411.0

Random Movement:

To dust off another old post:

Quote
Random Movement is often misunderstood. The sequence (BRB p. 74) is:

1. Pivot the centre of the Random Mover to face the direction in which you wish it to travel.
2. Roll the dice shown in the model's profile.
3. Measure the distance in a straight line to see whether you come into contact with an enemy. It is important to note that this happens, before the model is actually moved, as it will determine whether the 1" rule applies or not.

3.a If the move is found to take the unit into contact with an enemy this counts as charging, and this is resolved using the normal rules for charges and using the distance rolled as its charge range, i.e. move the charging unit in a straight line with one free wheel of 90 to get into contact with the enemy, and then either you or the enemy closes the door. During this charge, you can also move to within 1" of other units, or impassable terrain.  If that is, for some reason, impossible, it will result in a failed charge.

3.b If no charge is made, move the model directly forwards a number of inches equal to the total rolled by the dice. If the random move brings the unit to within 1" of a friendly unit or impassable terrain, it stops immediately and cannot move further during that Movement phase.

Here we are in situation 3.a: we have measured that the Random Movement will contact a fleeing unit, and this counts now as charging. Since the Random Movement does not allow a charge reaction, the fleeing unit does not flee, but can only Hold (not a charge reaction!). The charge of the Random Mover is then resolved using the normal rules for charges: if this does not result in a failed charge,  the Random Mover will contact and thus destroy the fleeing unit.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Re: 8th Ed - Steam Tank Questions
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2021, 06:18:33 PM »
Thank you,

Question 2)
Answered - The fact that Hold is not a charge reaction was an oversight on my end. Clarified now.

Question 1)
Follow up question:

I assume the target point then is, well, the originally nominated point of impact.
Not:
The point of impact after adding 1st artillery dice
Or final point of impact after bounce

I could then only fire the steam gun at the original target point if it is within 8inch of the Stank as the flame template has a length of 8inch (a little more in fact but lets say 8)
If the original target point of the steam cannon is further out than 8inches, I could not fire the steam gun as it would violate the rule that I cannot shoot over my maximum range (8 inch template in that case)

Example:
In front of the Stank is a unit of warhounds (5 inch from the Stank) and in 15 inches of the exact same direction behind the warhounds (20 inches from base of Stank) is a chimera.
I nominate 5 inches in front of the chimera for the cannon shot, 15 inches from the Stank, how the shot is then resolved is irrelevant.
I then cannot shoot the steam gun towards the warhounds as the original intended target spot is further out than my max flame template range (8 inch), even if it would be beneficial to do so.

Would you say that is correct?
Thanks

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: 8th Ed - Steam Tank Questions
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2021, 08:30:51 PM »
Yes, that is correct. However, since the enemy units are aligned, you could nominate as target for the Steam Cannon a point just in front of the Warhounds, or, indeed, one of the Warhounds, with a chance of the bounce still hitting the Chimera. and the Steam Gun could then hit that point and the Warhounds.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: 8th Ed - Steam Tank Questions
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2021, 11:46:58 AM »
On a side note: the optimum target point is 10" in front of the back base of the intended target.

The probability that a cannonball will hit a model x inches beyond the nominated target point has been calculated thus:


Misfire: 6/36 = 16.67%

2: 6/36 = 16.67%

4: 11/36 = 30.56%

6: 15/36 = 41.67%

8: 18/36 = 50.00%

10: 20/36 = 55.56%

12: 15/36 = 41.67%

14: 10/36 = 27.78%

16: 6/36 = 16.67%

18: 3/36 = 8.33%

20: 1/36 = 2.78%
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 11:57:37 AM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Artobans Ghost

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Re: 8th Ed - Steam Tank Questions
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2021, 12:42:47 PM »
Those calculations bring back a lot of canon/steam tank shot fun. It really felt good to blast a good target. I took out a vampire leader once with the first shot of the game with the great canon. His army started to crumble and it gave me my only victory I ever had over those bastard  vamps lol
Mathi Alfblut Feb 4,2017 Simple, You gut the bastard with your sword, the viking way.
Questions?


GP Jan 4, 2020
Yes, even W:AoS.

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: 8th Ed - Steam Tank Questions
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2021, 03:11:15 PM »
Must've been in 7th edition?
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

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Offline Artobans Ghost

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Re: 8th Ed - Steam Tank Questions
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2021, 04:15:26 PM »
Must've been in 7th edition?

For sure. 6th or 7th. Those vamps were crazy in 7th
Mathi Alfblut Feb 4,2017 Simple, You gut the bastard with your sword, the viking way.
Questions?


GP Jan 4, 2020
Yes, even W:AoS.

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: 8th Ed - Steam Tank Questions
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2021, 06:17:23 PM »
That and Skaven, plus there were Deamons!
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra