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The Campaign Archive => Nemesis Crown Board => Topic started by: wissenlander on July 30, 2007, 06:01:29 PM
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Well, I think that Karl Franz is going to come to his senses, or whatever it is, and rescend his quest for the crown and we'll be allies with the Dwarfs once again.
I think we should preempt the Emperor and show that we can put past transgressions behind us and FORGET all of the tension and hurt feelings from the last few weeks. We are very close to working something out, but I think pride is stopping both sides from coming to the table.
I know some out there are thinking this is a waste of a great storyline, and I would agree with you, but only to a certain point. It is a good story, but one that we cannot have taken seriously in such a short time and with no lasting impact. Such thoughts only further the gap between our once staunch allies, so I believe we should put them to rest.
I move that we again unite with the Dawi for the end of the campaign in a show of unity. Who's with me?
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You are probably right and certainly have put more effort into balancing this campaign than anyone else, but we did not start the conflict and any resolution must come from the agressor in my opinion. This may seem like something of an entrenched opinion but I do not hold a grudge as long as them but will not forget a slight.
The Dwarves make a powerful ally and fearsome enemy, but it is up to them to apologise for acting completely out of character and adopting a WAAC stance (so typical of their army book, if they really cared we would have an organ gun not the HBVG).
There is more effort needed to make peace.
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Good man! Glad you're my Commander. :happy:
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Dendo, I notice your signature has changed. I would love to see what has changed you both.
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This has been the biggest blunder of the entire campaign. It’s a disgrace that we have been unable to come too some sort of agreement, apart from the odd fluff mention here and there.
I don’t know how we have ended up in this mess, when the Empire ambassadors came to Brewery I was over at Da Warpath & Blood Keep. I have not read the initial Empire/Dawi proposal I don’t want to know, but what ever was said has left such bad feelings that any future agreement has been next to impossible. I truly wish that things had been different.
Blackthorn
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hmmmm, not entirely true from what I experienced over at the bewery. I feel you and Daft owe this forum some serious apoligies, and I know some people have already changed their signatures to forgive you but those that took longer to offend take longer to forgive.
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No, actually, it wasn't really what was said. We approached the Dwarfs, they said *paraphrased* "Get Lost." So we backed off, and haven't really been approached by the Dwarfs, except you really, also the intereference in our negotiations didn't go down well either.
Of course if this was eral life, then I think that the Dwarfs wouldnn't have done it, but if htey had, then it would have been a political blunder on their part and war wouild be likely.
But this is a game. Dwarfs would be fighting Empire anyway, it depends on what armies people have. The fact that GW left this seed is their fault not ours, however the way Bugman's took it IS their fault. In this position the fighter in me cries "No quarter given, and no expected", while the negotiator adds, "...if they don't apologize"
I agree with Veldemere (and not just cos he's my Commander :biggriin:)
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Me, me… why? How have I slighted you are the Empire?
Count, PM me your grievances, to my knowledge I have always been honest and forthright with you. That would explain why you stopped replying to my PM’s I sent…. You should have PM’ed me about this earlier. Actually forget the PM do it here in public....
Blackthorn
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To be honest I did not continue our PM discussions as you insisted on communicating PMs with VCs and Skaven. I got the impression that you were trying to manage the campaign with the tacit support of other races, insisting on doing your negotiations through PMs. Whereas the Generals in the Barren Hills are brighter than understanding that I may be a Dwarven puppet and all discussions I had were held in the open.
Similarly any slights on me will be delivered in public on this forum, as will all apologies!
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My negotiations with the Skaven involved three posts (I could be wrong, one to advertise a flash animation I made of the Barren Hills and the Greenskins getting whipped).
The other two where with respect to the Heart-Stone idea.
Just re-read your post, I have never, never PM’ed any Vampire Count/Skaven player on there respective forums. The reason for PM's between us (The content was/is very explosive....surely you would not have me post that content in a public forum?).
I never tried to manipulate the Empire faction, infant the level of information I told you was the same as a Council member on the Council of Thanes at Bugman’s. That’s how highly I regarded our “friendship”, I have at times clashed very openly and publicly in threads at Bugmans; trying to get a Empire/Dawi agreement passed.
One thing I will not be doing is apologizing, for I have done nothing which warrants such a statement. And unless you can state otherwise I will hold this position.
Blackthorn
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Crikey the new beginning lasts about 2 minutes :Ohmy:
What happend, had happend, some dwarfs not you Blackthorn were shall we say "Blunt" in their communications with us.
Not all dwarfs have been so "Blunt" with us. Cant judge them all by a few Dwarven hot-heads.
Similarly if the Dwarfs have had fluff conversations with other races, so what? I think we have spoken to a few races Orcs in particular, and I seem to remember a Skaven ambassador over here for fluff reasons to.
Ive had a good few battles with dwarfs and made a few refrences to the "Blunt" responce we got and it made the victory all the sweeter. Now its time to forgive and move on.
So we are allies again, which is what we all knew would happen. So lets work together on fluff etc and make sure that we get the result we want
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"I would like to mention one other thing to you. And only with your approval will I enact on it. I believe I can incorporate the Vampire Counts into this common opening move. I would suggest that they attack the Skaven Lair, this will occupy these two evil races for the 1st week. From the SOC they had roughly the same number of battles. It also enables us to track and predict their movements for the first week. This relieves pressure from your settlements and keeps them away Dawi armies. I realise this is an unusual proposal, but it pits two evil enemies against each other. But as I already stated I do not want enact on this without your say."
An excerpt of one of the original posts you sent to me, please do not argue or I will make more public. We will accept apologies.
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That does not prove that I had PM’s with Skaven & Vampire Counts. It shows I kept you abreast of all dealings, I will save you your blushes and not post your response.
Not that it matters, to get the common opening move, it had to be pitched that Vampires where attacking Skaven to keep the Empire on board. The Vampire Counts where well aware of this from the Blood Keep thread. Yes that is a thread on a public forum and not PM.
This is pointless Count, not unless you can produce something which shows how I have slighted either you are the Empire faction then I will bid you a good day.
**Edit** Wiped 3 paragraphs **
I do wish the Empire well, I do regret the complete lack of agreement. I have no real idea why Veldemere feel’s that I have wronged him or the Empire faction.
So I will leave it at that. If Wissenlander wishes to propose anything over at Bugman’s it will be considered and once again I will vocally voice my favor for it.
I will not impose of you any further.
Thane Morgan Blackthorn
Councillor to the Council of Thanes
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Uh... that went downhill fast
Lets see: Posted on: Today at 01:01:29 AM to Posted on: Today at 05:32:06 AM Uncool, I missed those four hours...
I will save you your blushes and not post your response
?? uh... care to elaborate more?
So, Wissenlander throws up the carrier pigeon, we hear a, "BANG" and we look over and Veldemere is smiling holding a shotgun...
So does that mean we are reinstating our DW campaign? lol
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I do truly apologise as Wissenlander has proven himself to be the one we should all follow in this campaign. He has put so much effort in to other forums, so I would urge others to trust him before me. Sadly I am a Yorkshireman and as any Brit will tell you we are cussid and feel that a slight deserves an apology. Sadly we do sometimes see a slight where there was not one, I think it is up to each payer to decide whether the dwarves were right to forget their first loyalty and set aside a 3000 year old grudge to obtain something we probably would have given them anyway.
I will bow down to the masses and will apologise if anyone on this forum thinks I have been out of order. I merely ask that if found responsible the Dawi offer the same.
And the closest thing I have to a shotgun is my HLR and if my engineer could shoot his own ass with a HLR I would be impressed.
That said I have now not had a cigarette in 4 weeks and am still not a pleasent person to be around.
But I will get over it.
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I'm on your side, Veldemere. The dwarves caused a little too much trouble at the start of this for an easy make-up. But I don't think that the results of this campaign are going to give them much reason to change their ways in the future.
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Wissenlander has proven himself to be the one we should all follow in this campaign. He has put so much effort in to other forums (..).
I fully second that statement.
I'm not under the impression that you have done anything wrong, Veldemere, and I share your opinion on this issue. You chose your words with caution, and you remained polite. Oh, and if I'm not finding a signature in the next week, I'll be using this:
(T)hose that took longer to offend take longer to forgive.
I respect anybody who bites his lip and engages negotiations with the dwarfs. However, the fact that it takes only a single well-expressed differing opinion to make them reconsider should tell us something about the earnesty of their offer.
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We go back about 2500+ years. I think we're good.
For the good of the Empire, listen to Wissenlander.
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No offense to Dendo and Wissenlander, but I agree with Veldemere. The wrong was the Dwarfs, if Blackthorn is still reading this I am not saying it was his. Hence why I said "their fault" rather than "your fault".
The Dwarfs had wronged us by insulting us and blocking our negotiations with other races.
(No, I'm not a yorkshireman, I'm wirralian, welsh, scouse, a bit brumy, so I'm a bit of a mix. But like Veldemere, I'd prefer an apology at least before I would agree with the Dwarfs on this matter)
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I will give food and shelter to all dwarves coming to the Räuberdale. I think there is no place for ranting of politicians if the great foe has to be destroyed. I say after the battle for the crown lots of dwarves will take up the slayer oath for ther childish behaviour.
But we are no dwarves. We stand over petty grudges and see the greater good. There is no harm for us supporting the dwarves. The trust is gone but there is no reason to weaken each other because of some slights. I say lets work together and after Orcs, Chaos, Dark Elves and the Undead are forced off imperial ground. We will take the higher road and discuss with the dwarves the wrongs they did.
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No offense to Dendo and Wissenlander, but I agree with Veldemere. The wrong was the Dwarfs, if Blackthorn is still reading this I am not saying it was his. Hence why I said "their fault" rather than "your fault".
The Dwarfs had wronged us by insulting us and blocking our negotiations with other races.
You're for the most part right on this; some of the more hot-headed members over at Bugman's were a little less diplomatic than good Blackthorn here. I did some of the diplomacy there, and to be honest, some replies were rather blunt. Then there's the matter of trying to isolate us by conducting agressive negotiations....
Still, I'm with Dendo and Wiss on this. I'm sure most of them did it out of character or just because they wanted to get the best deal out of this. We've got to put this behind us. We don't hold grudges, let's hope the Dwarfs see reason and do not hold any against us either.
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Wow...
First off, I would like to thank everyone who looks to me as a 'leader' in this. I do appreciate the thoughts and thanks, although I'm nothing special.
Secondly, this has gotten past IC Warhammer folks, and it has for a long time, we just haven't fully owned up to it. It stemmed from IC actions but spiraled out of control.
Whether anyone realizes it or not, most of what we've been peeved about, and maybe the Dwarfs as well, is how things were taken OOC. Maybe the Dwarfs do owe us an apology, maybe we owe them one. Right now I don't know anymore. There has been a lot of debate on whose fault it is. From a story perspective that's fine, it actually makes for that great story I know Michael W wants so bad.
I believe that a crucial factor that was missing here was open communication. Forum hopping alowed people (and I do mean people, I'm not pointing the finger at anyone) to pick up on one or two things and run with it, and instead of us trying to talk it out openly like we maybe should've, we started screaming how wronged we were. And believe me, I'm in on this too.
I'm not trying to guilt anyone into agreeing to this. If most don't want to, that's fine. But I do think we should start the healing process between forums. And in some ways I think a fluff agreement/alliance would begin this.
I could be wrong about this, but just speaking my peace.
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I think, in the least, a "We shouldn't have done what we did" could start the healing process, but to be proper healing it needs to be both approaching it from this angle, not just one forum.
An alliance might be possible IC, though of course we would have to include the Brets politically in our allies asking the Dwarfs not to attack them. They were here first.
IC, the damage may have been deep, but the negtiators would surround it as doctors to the wound. (Bad metaphor, but it wanted to be continued :biggriin:) If the Dwarfs will accept us this time, GW may ignore it, as this would make the big three 2 on 1.
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Men of the Empire;
The War for the Nemesis Crown will soon come to an end,the final days are upon us. Each of our armies has proven they can stand victorious alone, without the other. But together,we could be much stronger. United,our forces would be almost invincible. A vast army of good to sweep all the forces of evil before it. Barbs and insults have been traded by both sides. Both Maen & Dwarf have been blinded by pride & greed. The Nemesis Crown has already wrecked havoc by causing a rift between us. It is time to set aside past differences and prove that we are more noble then that. It is time for the final stand. I extend the hand of the Dwarves in friendship. Will we stand united in the end?
Blood Axe
OOC- I'd like to propose an alliance between us and all our allies & the Empire with its allies. The Wood Elves are also welcome, as this would help clear their forest realm of evil also. Its the last week, it would be nice for the good factions to stand together united vs. evil and crush them!
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Dendo, I notice your signature has changed. I would love to see what has changed you both.
I actually asked Dendo to take it off of his sig. I knew that he would do so, so it made my part a lot easier. :wink: He was never after them fluff wise, just one of those things. Won't put words into his mouth, but I knew where he stood, maybe he can explain it better than I.
What's changed me in all this is the fact that I realized that this has gone past WFB. This is getting personal, between forums and I don't want that to happen. If we were to have some animosity between races (such as the orcs/obvious but we still have a good relation with them, at least I do) then it would've been fun.
I think many have made mistakes in this campaign, from GW command all the way down to us on the front lines. In a way it was fun, but it's now become frustrating...probably more so for myself than many others because of the time in which I've put in (yay work!).
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I agree Wissenlander. I've noticed a rift between forums. Alot of tension and hard feelings. This Nemesis Crown Campaign will be over, I'd hate to see the ill will continue after its gone. These fine forums will be around long after the Nemesis campaign is forgotten,lets not let it ruin things between the Brewery and W-E. Its not worth it,even to win. I'd rather lose and remain friends with the Empire & Bretonnia forums,then to win and be scorned.
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The fact you have come over here and said that is a brilliant step for inter-forum relations. And I would be welcoming of your alliance proposal, though if anyone else is, I know not.
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There are Empire Generals against an alliance here. There are also Dwarf Thanes against an alliance at the Brewery. GW pitted us against each other from the start of this and it avalanched from there.
But when it is all said and done,we can at least say that we tried.
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Welcome bloodaxe. I hope the generals against an alliance are in the minority, and please do not take my previous reticence as being anti Dwarf / alliance per se. I would be keen to see an alliance back in place and hope it could be organised soon, but I do have some misgivings and will consicer these and respond tomorrow. Also it's bloody late and I'm tired!
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I'm for reconciliation, but grudgingly. I lost too many good Men to those bastards.
Ego mos memor
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GW has made this a lot easier for us now, guys. Let's put past transgressions aside and work together.
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Lets get the Crown together no matter who gets it, so long he or she is on our (good) side. When we had the Crown, we could discuss what we doing with it.
We should draw a line and fight unified together against this evil from this moment on.
If the blood we shed in battle between our people have had any sense, than to end this futile fight between the good Races at once. The only one who takes advantage of that, are the bad guys!!! This should not be!!!
Let us draw our sword´s/battleaxe´s together and fight this evil, than we should win and end this futile war, get the dammed Crown and maybe find some new/old friends. :smile2:
Etienne de Valois
Vice Marschall of the Grande Armee von Valois
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Any friendly ambassadors from the Empire are welcome at the Brewery. Maybe your voices can sway a couple of stubborn Dwarves that are against the alliance. I'd like to crush all the evil factions,so only good armies occupy the top slots. Vampire Counts are the highest evil faction,still 4th over-all.
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I am not saying I think a full alliance is in order, yet. But I agree to put recent events aside and welcome the Dwarves as an army of conquest not conquer. I am glad to see KF has come to his senses and we will, hopefully, see this vile crown destroyed.
Following this campaign I hope we can once again be close to the Dwarves (and more particularly to Bugmans Brewery).
Lets just get this thing found and destroyed.
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Men of the Empire;
I regret to say Rufas the Eccentric(empire), Sir Rufas(bretonnia), Ironmonger(dwarves),all the same person, has thrown a wrench in any alliance that would include the Bretonnians. It is too late to undo the damage he has done. Hopefully an alliance can still be forged between the Empire and the Dwarves alone(no allies,just us two). I apologize for this,but there is nothing I can do with the end so close. I am still ready to stand beside the brave Men of the Empire,but regretfully we cannot have any agreement with Bretonnia now.
Blood Axe
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I don't believe Rufas the Eccentric/Ironmonger is Sir Rufus. I also don't see why we all still can't work together. He voiced one opinion and if there is a majority we can still get this across.
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I apologize to Sir Rufas,Rufus the Eccentric. All this cross-forum spying and twisting of our week#5 orders made me angry.It was deliberate to sabotage any alliance.There will be no chance of alliance with Bretonnia.None.
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Pleeeassse! This is susposed to be a happy occasion! Lets not, bicker and argue over who sabotaged who...
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Pleeeassse! This is susposed to be a happy occasion! Lets not, bicker and argue over who sabotaged who...
You beat me to it! :happy:
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My apologies.
Wissenlander- Can there be an alliance between the Empire & Dwarves alone? Bretonnia not included,we can offer them no guarantees.
Yes or no. We need to know this before it goes further.
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Well, we will continue to be united with Bretonnia. We have signed a treaty just as you have with the Asur and Ogres. I cannot rescend on that when they have done nothing to break the treaty.
However, that doesn't mean we still can't work together. And I do believe there are some Bretonnians that would like to work with you as well, but I know the time for that may have passed now. I do hope that this is acceptable.
The Bretonnians were trying to act as a calming force between the Empire and Dawi, now maybe the Empire can be the calming force.
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I think the dwarves should still include Bretonnia. They have really done nothing wrong... Sir Rufus had a valid point, and alittle more communication on our part would have gone a long way. We should have explained why we did what we did, rather than immeadiatly stopping negotiations. Bretonnia still seems willing to ally, and I think we should too.
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I know they look to be in favor of an alliance at this point. Their orders for the week don't have them specifically targeting the Brets either.
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Welcome over to this side of the fence Blood Axe! Drinks all around on Lord Firmshaft's tab of course. (Quickly ducks Blood Axe's throwing axe as he is a "Put it on Daft's Tab" Dwarf.)
As the proud owner of Imperial and Dwarven armies, I have been deeply distressed over the entire plotline of this campaign. The deal we got stuck with made the conflict unavoidable. But it surprised me that so many people on both sides jumped on to the jingoistic bandwagon. Lots of nasty words were hurled back and forth, and battles were fought without the foam swords and rubber tipped arrows that normally are used in our training exercises. It is time to put our bitterness aside.
However, there are a couple of practical matters to attend to. How do we report it if we unavoidably end up in a Dwarven/Imperial battle? So far I have avoided this, but it's bound to happen.
Also, we both have alliances, the principle ones being the Imperial/Bretonnian alliance and the Dwarven Ogre Alliance. I would like to see that both of these trusty allies be given some recognition for their loyalty.
I would like some small recognition from the Dwarves that they did violate our sovereignty. Nothing of importance. I would think that the secret to the animated Beer Drinking/Cheers smiley would be and adequate token.
As Biff says: "Can't we all just get along!"
Remember, at the celebrations for the peace treaty "Put it on Firmshaft's Tab"
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Unbelievable......simply stunning......
As Overlord of the Greenskin invasion of the Talabec Borders, I find this love-session repugnant and disgusting. How can the proud warriors of Helstrom's 4th, who have slogged forward in the face of so many opponents, lay prostrate to another race, who are an invading force? They have set marched into your territory, foraged in your lands, built strongholds where they deemed it convenient and set off to stop you from recovering the shiney hat at every turn! Let's face it: they have almost dominated this campaign, and we all have taken a beating from them....
Simply stunning....amazing! Methinks we need a Churchill to lead every now and then:
We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
THAT my friends, is the stuff of legends, no matter what era.
BRING IT ON!
Warlord Goomb
Overlord - Talabec Borders
Still slogging forward, even in the muck and mire at the bottom of this campaign
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Goomb- my condolences for your impending doom.
R.I.P. Grimgor
My enemies enemy is my friend. :icon_lol:
Remember,we may have differences with other factions, but we HATE Greenskins!!
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Well, the Dwarfs have agreed and from what I see here a good majority think that it would be wise to unite (dispite past offenses, I know there's some issue here). If anyone truely doesn't want this then let me know, otherwise we are now alligned with the Dwarfs as well.
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Well, as much as I respect Goombs view (although he is an orc...) I reluctantely (and I actually mean it) say we go ahead with the alliance
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So, as we get to the close of the campaign and the sun is setting over the Empire things are getting back to how they should be, we are back on speaking terms with the Asur and Dawi, we have forged strong alliances with the Bretoni, we hate the greenskins, chaos are bobbins and the ogres stink.
All we need to do now is get rid of this crown!
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Hear, hear Veldemere.
Maybe, just maybe, we have done enough to ensure the next campaign is not another invasion of the Empire.
Maybe Thorgrim will let us take over those nice fortifications the Dwarfs built. :-D
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surely our allies built them for us?
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But of course they did! :-D
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So, as we get to the close of the campaign and the sun is setting over the Empire things are getting back to how they should be, we are back on speaking terms with the Asur and Dawi, we have forged strong alliances with the Bretoni, we hate the greenskins, chaos are bobbins and the ogres stink.
All we need to do now is get rid of this crown!
Maybe you could also try and convince the dwarfs they should be on speaking terms with Bretonnia? Just a thought?
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Good idea, but I got the impression that there was a stumbling block there. If so from which side does it originate?
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It was another miscommunication, nothing that can't be worked out though.