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Author Topic: A more balanced Mordheim- opinions on chaos warbands?  (Read 31917 times)

Offline FictionalCharacter

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- opinions on chaos warbands?
« Reply #75 on: November 03, 2009, 04:36:45 PM »
so, wait. longbows at half cost and no -1 for long range, with a 2/3 chance of dealing a s4 hit if anything actually reaches them? for 35 gold?

can i have two?

for some reason i have it in my mind that removing the -1 for moving and shooting penalty makes more sense than removing the -1 for long range. i think it allows for more strategic use of the bonus.

Offline wissenlander

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- opinions on chaos warbands?
« Reply #76 on: November 03, 2009, 04:40:54 PM »
There's no S4.  The ranger has BS4, but the marksmen only have BS3.  Considering the name of steady aim, though, it does makes more sense.  Also, the marksmen shouldn't have the Longbow special rule, that's just for the rangers.

And this is where the pricing issue comes in.  I'd like to know what's fair based on the current skills that they have.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 04:50:40 PM by wissenlander »
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Offline FictionalCharacter

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- opinions on chaos warbands?
« Reply #77 on: November 03, 2009, 04:59:15 PM »
There's no S4.

trappedy trap trap traps. making the steady aim thing pertain to movement rather than long range would make the traps easier to actually implement in the game, as well. you find your spot, set up, and go to town.

i'd just be wary of building a shooting monster in this game. 36" range and hitting on no worse than a 4+. that's pretty brutal in a small skirmish game.

Offline wissenlander

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- opinions on chaos warbands?
« Reply #78 on: November 03, 2009, 05:06:54 PM »
True.  I've already changed it to the move and shoot variety on my master list.  I thought you meant the men themselves had S4.

The trap rule is something I borrowed from the bergjaeger entry out of the Averland list.  They're similiar types of characters and would presumably have a similiar skill set.  However, my ranger has a better WS than does the bergjaeger.

As it is now, my ranger is the same price as a bergjaeger, so making him a little more expensive would be fitting.  Or I can drop the traps, which is also fine, and something I'm leaning towards as to not rob the Averland list of one of its few unique characteristics.  My marksmen are more expensive than Reikland marksmen by 5 gc, but I'm fine with that since they have the Steady Aim rule. 

I'd rather pay a little more in a list I construct than a little less.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 05:09:23 PM by wissenlander »
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- opinions on chaos warbands?
« Reply #79 on: November 03, 2009, 05:14:02 PM »
The current ranger has the same stats as a mercenary champion (just with transposed WS and BS), so needs to start with 8 experience, not 6.

Either that or revert to the Bergjaeger model.


I don't really like that half-cost longbow rule either. It just seems a bit awkward. You could raise their price and have them come equipped with a longbow instead.


I wouldn't worry too much about the shooting power of this warband, since Reikland are probably better. And we won't even mention skaven with slings, the true gunliners of Mordheim.
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- opinions on chaos warbands?
« Reply #80 on: November 03, 2009, 05:18:47 PM »
Does 40 points sound right then?  Or 45?

Also, does 65 points for the Captain with the hunch skill starting sound ok?

I think I am going to remove the traps from the ranger, too.  As I said, I don't want to take away from Averland (well, I don't really mind, but to be fair).
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Offline FictionalCharacter

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- opinions on chaos warbands?
« Reply #81 on: November 03, 2009, 05:22:39 PM »
the thing with the steady aim rule (at least in it's no long range penalty incarnation) is that it essentially allows you to field up to 8 guys who hit on mostly 3's and 4's the entire game from any range, which is fine in a larger scale game but strikes me as ridiculously deadly in a game like mordheim.

i realize that i have very little basis for comparison, so i looked up the thunderer stats in the treasure hunter warband:

0-5 M3   WS4   BS 3  S3   T4   W1   I2   A1   Ld9 for 40 GC.

a crossbow is 25 GC and a handgun is 35 (i have no idea what longbows actually cost. 15?), and none of the dwarf special rules pertain to shooting. so that's 65 - 75 gc for a way way way less accurate shooter (but with s4), although it's more survivable and whatnot.

a marksman with a longbow is 40 gold, but has bs3 and suffers all shooting penalties. that said, you can also take 7 of them.

i don't know... i guess i just feel like those shooting penalties are there for a reason. again i don't have the greatest grasp of other lists or playtesting or anything, though.

i also like the traps thing. you can always tweak it a bit to make it more your own.

yeah that reikland shooting rule looks insane. maybe i'm just paranoid because i've only ever played one warhammer game in which i ever had a decent shooting unit?

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- opinions on chaos warbands?
« Reply #82 on: November 03, 2009, 05:31:22 PM »
Shooting's not that good in Mordheim. Don't forget that the injury rules make it hard to take a model out of action by shooting alone. Plus, you are supposed to play with a lot of covering terrain. It's hard to shoot at people who are forever hiding.


Quote
Does 40 points sound right then?  Or 45?

Maybe 45?


Quote
Also, does 65 points for the Captain with the hunch skill starting sound ok?

Yes. Reikland captains get the equivalent of an academic skill free. And I'm not sure 'hunch' is that useful. I wouldn't pick it for most warbands.
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Offline FictionalCharacter

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- opinions on chaos warbands?
« Reply #83 on: November 03, 2009, 05:43:28 PM »
Shooting's not that good in Mordheim. Don't forget that the injury rules make it hard to take a model out of action by shooting alone. Plus, you are supposed to play with a lot of covering terrain. It's hard to shoot at people who are forever hiding.

yeah part of the problem might be that we had a solid amount of open space in our first couple games. and it may be relatively difficult to knock someone out of action, but shooting that's that accurate at that range wouldn't make it too hard to keep guys flat on their faces for most of the game.