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91
The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: TVI one year in..?
« Last post by Sir Falo on May 04, 2025, 04:45:20 PM »
Quote from: commandant on May 04, 2025, 12:52:01 PM
When it comes to the guard v greatswords or veteran halberdiers I suppose it depends on what you are doing.
I is an important stat but it is also sort if binary. I know a player who basically takes great weapons on his dwarfs because he doesn't think there is a difference between I2 and I1.

Greatswords are I4 on the charge which is ahead or at the same time as most non elf things I think.

Obviously more attacks is better than fewer attacks but here the different between the guard and greatswords is the detachments. Detachments can add up to 12-15 attacks to the greatsword unit regardless of whether they charge or are charge (more if they have battle lust and charge) where as the furious charge requires you to charge. Obviously your opponent can act against your detachments but can't act against furious charge, except where one of my opponent dumped his spearelfs 1 inch from my knights of the white wolf.

Its not even close on how much better T Guard are over Greatswords.

First, to get a Veteran Drilled Greatswords the cost more then T Guard. Then T Guard have one more toughness  (and that really matters) and rerolls ones to hit. On that their weapons are way better. Having I6 over I4 on the charge makes a big difference. Makes you strike before a lot of characters and regiments. Sometimes with fall back you dont get the full +3 ether. So it matters.
Detachments on the side just makes the points difference even greater. And on that whide detachments are very easy to counter.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: TVI one year in..?
« Last post by commandant on May 04, 2025, 12:52:01 PM »
Firstly I think there are 2 different points of view that need to be considered.   The first is the player and the second is the games designer.   In the first case you want as much consistency as possible. In the second case you don't.

If there is no way to oppose something then game designers only want it to happen about 50% of the time.

The second question is how good the prayers are. The answer is it sort of depends on what they are paired with.

For example the Sigmarite prayer to re-roll ones to hit and to wound is really good if you wound on a 2+ (say knights charging). Your chance of not wounding goes from 1/6 to 1/36. That is a big difference.
Obviously if you wound on a 3+ it is less strong but you still get to re-roll half of your non wounding attacks.

Likewise the prayer which gives you multi wound 2 is really good if you play a lot if ogres etc but less good if you play against a lot of goblins.

Re-roll 6's to be hit combined with glittering robe and the bedazzling helm means that your character (assuming he is fighting something with a high WS than him) goes from a 1/6 chance of being hit by each dice to a 1/36 chance.
If you play in an environment with a lot of poison then again each dice goes from a 1/6 chance of causing an auto wound to a 1/36 chance.
These are really strong effects that your opponent can do nothing to counter.


As has already being pointed out above failing leadership tests are a lot less punishing in TOW. Also, for break tests, its worth nothing that LD8 in 6th is the same as LD7 in TOW because you always (stubborn aside) took tests at at least -1.

When it comes to the guard v greatswords or veteran halberdiers I suppose it depends on what you are doing.
I is an important stat but it is also sort if binary. I know a player who basically takes great weapons on his dwarfs because he doesn't think there is a difference between I2 and I1.

Greatswords are I4 on the charge which is ahead or at the same time as most non elf things I think.

Obviously more attacks is better than fewer attacks but here the different between the guard and greatswords is the detachments. Detachments can add up to 12-15 attacks to the greatsword unit regardless of whether they charge or are charge (more if they have battle lust and charge) where as the furious charge requires you to charge. Obviously your opponent can act against your detachments but can't act against furious charge, except where one of my opponent dumped his spearelfs 1 inch from my knights of the white wolf.
93
The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: TVI one year in..?
« Last post by Sir Falo on May 04, 2025, 12:50:16 PM »
Quote from: Degendorff on May 04, 2025, 11:25:21 AM
I absolutely agree that Ld per se is far more important than a buff that works half of the time. Generally speaking, to consider something worth taking, I need reliability. Especially from a character, I want him to add something meaningful, and a buff that works only half of the time basically works none of the time.

For me, I would only consider them with a chance to cast of roughly 75%+, which means being able to reroll the Ld7 role (which is not possible afaik) or Ld8. And Ld8 you only get with Lectors or High Priests, and their 115p feel like a lot. It compares really badly to a BSB on demigryph. Worse armour save, no additional demi attacks, no battle standard...

So, the only reason to take one would be to unlock Teutogen guard. The 2 wound buff might be interesting to some degree, but needs a unit of knights to choose the right target for the buff. The defensive prayer that lets your enemy reroll 6s to hit is too weak to have any impact at all. It's worse than the 6++ with the Shroud of Iron, which only costs 10p.

So, all in all, the prayers don't seem to be a good enough reason to consider warrior priests or lectors/high priests with the small exception of High priest in a unit of KotWW, which has no place in a TVI list. And 60 points for a priest just to get the Teutogen guard seems overpriced as well.

What do you think?

Ld is way less important in Old World that 6th and 7th. Fail a panic test is just a fall back in good order. BSB helps a lot. Fear is not that big of a problem. Terror is only when you get charged, not the 6" terror bomb. You have a lot of veteran troops. Losing combat is less impact. So having Ld7 not a big deal in Old world.

Having a Ld 7 roll on prayers is about the same chance as casting a spell with a Lvl 4 wizard within a enemy lvl 4 wizard dispell range. So it pretty reliable for this game. If you are going in to the thick of it, prayers are no more unreliable than spells, sometimes more reliable. If you plan is to hang back they are worse, but Priests are not a good choice for that anyway. High priests are better at casting, but as you wrote, not that worth it. The Lector is only for the Altar and High priest (maybe) for stacking Multiple wounds with an Ogre blade.

I play with Teutogen guard. Use this set up:
Priest of Ulric, Charmed Shield, Twice-Blessed Armour - 90
13 Teutogen Guard, Standard bearer [The Gleaming Pennant], Full Command - 206
296 pts total
It have worked very well. Gets one reroll on the prayers with The Gleaming Pennant. Even with that cost (105 pts) He is cheaper than a 6th ed priest with gear and is better in all cases except the dispel dice. Teutogen Guard works well for me. If the reroll 6 to hit prayer goes in you move up the field and easily take most charges (Way more useful than Shroud of Iron). If it not goes thru you can still do other things. Multiple wounds is VERY good and the extra charge can be cast at command range, so more versatile.
94
The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: TVI one year in..?
« Last post by Degendorff on May 04, 2025, 11:25:21 AM »
I absolutely agree that Ld per se is far more important than a buff that works half of the time. Generally speaking, to consider something worth taking, I need reliability. Especially from a character, I want him to add something meaningful, and a buff that works only half of the time basically works none of the time.

For me, I would only consider them with a chance to cast of roughly 75%+, which means being able to reroll the Ld7 role (which is not possible afaik) or Ld8. And Ld8 you only get with Lectors or High Priests, and their 115p feel like a lot. It compares really badly to a BSB on demigryph. Worse armour save, no additional demi attacks, no battle standard...

So, the only reason to take one would be to unlock Teutogen guard. The 2 wound buff might be interesting to some degree, but needs a unit of knights to choose the right target for the buff. The defensive prayer that lets your enemy reroll 6s to hit is too weak to have any impact at all. It's worse than the 6++ with the Shroud of Iron, which only costs 10p.

So, all in all, the prayers don't seem to be a good enough reason to consider warrior priests or lectors/high priests with the small exception of High priest in a unit of KotWW, which has no place in a TVI list. And 60 points for a priest just to get the Teutogen guard seems overpriced as well.

What do you think?
95
The Brush and Palette / Re: Hooray for the Blue and the White!
« Last post by JoV on May 04, 2025, 08:40:38 AM »
More villagers churned out whilst I wait on something to arrive before I pour the river



Orc on the left is a 1987 vintage Citadel sculpt. Happy to have found a use for him

96
The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Buff stacking
« Last post by Sir Falo on May 04, 2025, 06:17:28 AM »
They still work, unless those enchantments also say they expire.
97
The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: TVI one year in..?
« Last post by Sir Falo on May 04, 2025, 06:16:23 AM »
Quote from: Tiberius on May 03, 2025, 10:35:24 PM
The low leadership isn't annoying because of the prayers, it's annoying because it removes one of the priests most important benefits.  The priest would boost a units leadership to 8 or 9, something hugely significant for our state troops.  As said before with the old priests, our prayers were less likely to go off, but even if their prayers never went off, they were still very valuable.

They had these guaranteed benefits:
1. They always gave a dispel dice
2. They always could suck away enemy dispel dice
3. They always gave a leadership buff
4. They always gave some sort of hatred (to 5 armies in 6th, and all armies in 7th and 8th)

Those were great benefits not dependent on anything.

Now all of those things are gone, and instead we have a 58 or 81 percent chance of a middling benefit, and some slight magic resistance.  It's quiet sad...

I like Warrior priests of Sigmar a lot fluffwise and played with them in 6th and 7th. But they were not good in 6th or 7th. His Prayers were useless 80% of the time. He took a choice from something better. Ld 8 is not that amazing. Hatred was most useful on knights, and they already have Ld8. Hatred was very unreliable in 6th. 95 pts is very expensive, he get upp to 130 pts with gear. Very bad stats for a Hero. His dispel was good in 6th and 7th but terrible in 8th.

While the loss of Hatred is not good, Priests can acculy be used in Old World. Magic Res is and his prayers are good. While low chance to get it of it cant be dispelled. So in contrast with 6th and 7th he can get prayers of when its needed.

When I go back in this forum and look att TVI lists he almost never uses Warrior Priests.
98
The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: TVI one year in..?
« Last post by Tiberius on May 03, 2025, 10:35:24 PM »
The low leadership isn't annoying because of the prayers, it's annoying because it removes one of the priests most important benefits.  The priest would boost a units leadership to 8 or 9, something hugely significant for our state troops.  As said before with the old priests, our prayers were less likely to go off, but even if their prayers never went off, they were still very valuable.

They had these guaranteed benefits:
1. They always gave a dispel dice
2. They always could suck away enemy dispel dice
3. They always gave a leadership buff
4. They always gave some sort of hatred (to 5 armies in 6th, and all armies in 7th and 8th)

Those were great benefits not dependent on anything.

Now all of those things are gone, and instead we have a 58 or 81 percent chance of a middling benefit, and some slight magic resistance.  It's quiet sad...
99
The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Buff stacking
« Last post by commandant on May 03, 2025, 09:55:17 PM »
Glittering robe says that when it is cast on a unit all other enchantments expire. But what happens to enchantments cast on the unit after glittering robe is cast?
100
The Brush and Palette / Re: Brother Vinni's landsknechts and ‘exotic’ miniatures.
« Last post by Rowsdower on May 03, 2025, 01:47:25 PM »
Theres a chance of her burning her wings....and other parts
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