Topic: A notification

[Aquilifer]

Yes.... IC negotiations don't really work. Especially because its easy to want to be extreme in at least some way. 

Many thanks to your kind words on the proposal. The next step is relatively simple as I see it. If the commanders of Helstrum's 4th agree with the fluff and the terms laid down by myself, start mentioning this action in all UK battle reports. You guys will determine in what way. If you're willing (and this is a big if), Mention that your general received a letter from High Command to not obstruct or even aid HE armies (yeah thats prolly not happening) in the areas around Tor Thana, citing a recent agreement between the two races. Or, if that's too much to swallow, go the more conventional route and simply say that there are rumors concerning a mass concentration of Asur at Tor Thana, and the possible indications of a long term settlement. Perhaps capture an elven straggler (like that would ever happen  ) and under questioning he says he had been marching to "the colony" when his column was attacked. You think of something. Its really late right now so I don't really know. 

But if you do mention it, make sure you understand this. We did not ask for permission. There is no going around this. I am sorry that you are being subjected to another land-grab. I have laid forward a plan that I believe is incredibly beneficial to both sides, and in a way that was as thoughtful as possible. In the long term, this will be a great thing for both of us. It is up to you to agree to mention this bit of fluff, but it will be mentioned by our commanders in the UK regardless. It will greatly improve our chances of a mention by GW if you add this to your battle reports. And if you do choose to mention this (in whatever way you deem necessary), I thank you. Especially if your mentions are favorable. 

Also, as a further gesture of goodwill, is there anything that you would like us to mention in our Battle reports? I'm sure plenty will accommodate such an exchange of fluff.

[Erwin Moltz]

If all they want to do is rebuild the city then who cares, we're not using it.


yes their arrogance is irritating but if they put troops in the region then their arrogant people who are dieing in our stead, and thats alright by me.

[Giladis]

Oh come on guys, why do you look so suprised you had a fair amount of my IC posts before ( though I was not in the best of moods when writting this one ).

I first wanted to start the ball rolling with Asur and with the Dwarfs because there would be little point in you or anyone else helpping us background wise if our own side isn't doing the same.

The Elves have returned to stay and they are not going to ask any human if they may stay. That is a fact. Now what we can do is over time agree to trade deals, economic exchanges etc. But elves are here to stay. I know that you are infuriated by our action but Elves do what they percieve as best for the whole world from their perspective and having a colony instead one of the worst places that can be found in the Old World.

You may be angry at us now for not consulting you but in a few years time you will be thankfull for our presence for much of your military resources will allowed to move elswhere.

 

[Veldemere]

Hmmmm, this old one again. I am not arrogant I am merely in character. Can I put this one to bed now please, I am a human playing with little humans, you are a human playing with little elves, I think in any instance where we are talking about being in character I dare say I will be better at the role. Giladis if a race really acted like you do they would have been wiped out years ago as you are self absorbed, arrogant and ignorant (in character only I hope), Aquilifer you present a far more balanced (if still high handed) approach and have a balanced arguement. From all I have read if either of you were truly in character you would never have worked with the dwarves, but so be it we are all human we are all falable. There is a great deal of evidence that HE live quite happily alongside humans in many of the great conurbations of the Empire, there may be a level of superiority but not the level of treatment we have recieved from 'ambassadors'.

But whether in character or not the only way fluff can be achieved is by having the maximum support possible from as many factions as possible, I know the GDA offered every race a carved up piece of the empire, the HE get Tor Thana, the WE get the Great Forest, The ogres get fed, the VC get Sylvania and the Dwarves set up a different Karak in each province. Not one of these things has been mentioned in dispatches as this is a campaign to find a crown, there may be some borders slightly redefined but the Empire book has only just come out and they are not going to make it obselete then it will be at least 7 years (at current production rates) before they bring out a new one.

If you want Tor Thana approach us as players and give us reasoning to support your fluff and give us something in return, not just arrogance.

[Demonslayer]

Also, as a further gesture of goodwill, is there anything that you would like us to mention in our Battle reports?

Yes. As you're so keen on taking parts of the Empire, would you mind reporting on the Empire taking parts of Ulthuan? After all, the place is becoming pretty empty, with a near extinct race actually moving their people to other lands and all. So I think it would be a good idea for us to start a colony there and claim, say, the entire east of Ulthuan?
I mean, at least you would finally have a decent defence against the Druchii. And you're still welcome to come visit our new colony. Just don't try to rule it or anything, because, well, there's no way you could ever make all of our guns listen to you.

Gods, I hate elven arrogance  .


P.S.; 'And there's no way you can stop us elves from taking the Tor.'- Do the words "massed artillery fire" mean anything to you ?

[Aquilifer]

If you want Tor Thana approach us as players and give us reasoning to support your fluff and give us something in return, not just arrogance.

I have, and I await your real answer. I have not been acting "IC" for this negotiation, which I had hoped you had recognized. I have asked for your input on "something in return". So far all I've gotten is an answer that is as useless as Giladis' initial tone with you all. I AM TRYING TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE. If you don't want to mention this fluff, go ahead. If you do want to mention this fluff, and decide to be adamantly against it in your battle reports, do so. But any more useless prattle on either side helps no one.

As for the "IC" stuff, Veldemere, you're absolutely right. I am just a human playing with little elven dollies,trying to 'act' in a way that I think they would. That of course is impossible. And stupid. But we can all agree on a few basic things. My elf dollies are supposed to think they are better than your human dollies. Regardless of how arrogant I think they should be (Giladis and I clearly have differing opinions), in the game, they are supposed to be arrogant. So, please, go ahead and put down elven excuses based on acting 'in character'. I agree with you. But don't expect me to act like a citizen of the US in the 21st century. I am, but my little elf dolly isn't.

So, is there even a slim possibility of you guys working this out with us, or is this thread just gonna turn into blame-the-elves-arrogance-and-don't-bother-to-give-real-answers-day?

P.S.- I'm as angry over the dwarves as you are. A karak in each province? Is that really what they're doing?? Are they morons??? And check your threads on the attempts for an Empire-Asur alliance. You'll find I've been in this position as a negotiator for closer relations before.

[Blackthorn]

the Dwarves set up a different Karak in each province.

This is complete bull. Never, ever has there been any talk of a new Karak in each battle region.
If there has it has NOT come from the Council of Thanes thread over at Bugmans.
To my knowledge there was only the one site at the Giant's Tump. That is the only location we are pushing for a new Karak and have been for the last three weeks. I should know it was my proposal.

Veldemere if you can location the source for that quote I would be greatful, it would help clear matters.

P.S.- I'm as angry over the dwarves as you are. A karak in each province? Is that really what they're doing?? Are they morons??? And check your threads on the attempts for an Empire-Asur alliance

Not a good post ally, since you seem to not know or have not bothered to check what our objectives are. I suppose you are content for the Dawi to shed blood in the military aid we and our mercenary Ogres have given. I suggest you speak to VoodooMaster your UK commander to bring you up to speed. (Lets hope the Asur diplomats can refrain from a two day successive diplomatic blunder).

Blackthorn

[wissenlander]

Well, now that that's out of everyone's system...

Again, I have no real pull in this issue as I have nothing to do with Tor Thana or the Barren Hills.  There hasn't been a push by the Dwarfs to establish a Karak in the Talabec region to my knowledge, or there would've been a lot more fighting around Morr's Gate, where the orcs have set up shop, as it seems to be the most logical spot.

I admit I was angered initially by the 'arrogance' but I've had a day to calm down and realize yet again it's a game that I should be having fun with, not having head aches about (although sometimes that's half the fun).

In character frustration towards Elf claims to Tor Thana is fine.  We may not be using it now, but it still is in Imperial lands.  Possession is 9/10 of the law and we've had this for over 2 millenia now.  So animosity IC is to be expected.

Now, I would think that since the Elves are going to lay claim to the lands no matter what, it would be pointless to fight an old ally.  We'd be wasting ourselves on each other and letting evil get a foothold.  This is stuff Clausewitz and Aquilifer have mentioned before.  Long term reprucussions are mild as well, so we shouldn't let our pride get in the way too much.

Also, we are getting ready to launch a huge offensive here.  We should get as many forums on our side to mention this.  That's what I would propose you mention along with continuation of Helstrom's 4th and the Hunters of Sigmar.

[Ostermarker]

Right, I agree with Aquilifer, we should turn this back to negotiations, rather than end up elf bashing.

If the elves were to claim Tor Thana, they would be clearing out a ruined tower of evil, as well as replacing the evil creatures with (apparent) allies.
This would aid us economically, by helping the commoners, and politically, by giving the elves leave to this land, they will feel closer to us and may protect us to protect them (as if we fall, so will they).

[Veldemere]

Aquilifer, I am glad to see I can make posts that raise blood pressure as much as some of the elven posts did to me when I was an ambassador (before I became too old and embittered).

 I will grant that there is merit in The HE taking over Tor Thana, but I am loathed to support giving it away if there is no descernable benefit (i.e. the surrounding lands becoming useable by Empire farmers), but I would prefer to see it as a form of Embassy where the rebuilt Tor Thana and all within its walls is territory of Ulthan, but there is no option of expantion. Personally I would like to see this reciprocated on Ulthan but I think that may be pushing it too far.

Fluff wise, what do we want? Just a few thoughts:

1) As many mentions of the Hunters of Sigmar (knightly order) mentioned in as many posts as possible.

2) The HE navy supporting the Empire navy to take complete control of the rivers of the Empire (and then, other than trade vessels, leaving altogether)

3) Support of the Council of Light (or whatever it ends up being called) to discuss what is done to the crown if any of the 'good' forces get it (I am loosely including Dwarves in that).

4) In the Barren Hills support of the captured populace of Egon(s)dorf being returned after each Druchii opponent is defeated.

There may be a few more points I have yet to thing of, it may seem I am asking for a lot but they are all far smaller and less far reaching than your request.

What do you think?

[Tillmann Spyri]

The Barren Hills have witnessed much bloodshed and woe as the search for the Nemesis Crown has escalated. The ruins of the Elven city of Tor Thana have seen much bitter conflict, notably between factions of the High Elves and the Dark Elves. It appears to outsiders that Giladis, the commander of the High Elves force is playing a highly dangerous game of politics in seeking to establish a power base at the heart of the Empire, when the High Elves are present in the region to aid their long time allies in the Empire.

The leaders of the Dark Elves assaulting Tor Thana have recently received a fell warning, delivered unto them by a single assassin who appeared in their midst as they gathered in council. These leaders, the messenger stated, stood accused of hubris, of putting their own desires above the aims of their lord, Malekith. Ignore the Witch King’s orders again, the assassin whispered, and they would find themselves enslaved alongside the population of Eggonsdorf, whose lives had been offered up to Khaine for the glory of Naggaroth, according to the orders issued when first the Dark Elf fleets set sail for the Old World.

From this weeks report

[Aquilifer]

@Blackthorn: Thanks for clearing that one up. I'll admit, I hadn't got a chance to look at Bugmans to see the validity of the statement. I just trusted (apparently too quickly) that Veldemere had heard something. As for the Dwarf-bashing p.s that I left... personally (not as an 'ambassador', if thats what I am now) I was very much disgusted by the lack of any apparent attempt to work with the Empire at the beginning of the campaign (I tried to get a dual alliance with both the dwarves and the empire allied with the Asur at first and then a strong NAP later, you can find them here and at Asur.org). That comment was more of a personal remark and I apologise for it. I guess I'm gonna have to browse both W-E and Bugmans now.

@Wissenlander: What offensive are you talking about. Can you give me a few details?

@Veldemere: You've got it right. It would be impossible for such a reciprocation. So lets not even go there.
As for your fluff suggestions, I will post them on Asur and get back to you on them. But just looking at them, I see no problem with 1 and 2. 3 Might be a tad more difficult, especially as its clear I'm not in the know about our relations with the dwarves (apologies to dwarves again). As for 4... well, you've guessed that most of our forces are concentrated at Tor Thana, so there would be no direct help at Egonsdorf, but I would assume that any slaves we free would be returned.

I will post these suggestions at Asur. Hopefully, this "highly dangerous game of politics" will come to a successful conclusion, thanks to our efforts right now.

[wissenlander]

I think there is at least one other territory (Itally, France, Spain possibly?) that has a Karak being 'formed.'  I know it's not in my territory though, that's all I can confirm at this point.

The offensive I speak of can be found here: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=17283.25.  But basically the jist of it is this:

We strike out from our defended positions, leaving these fortified positions lightly guarded (but in good shape) and strike towards the woods in a purging effort.  Take out anything evil or anything that moves suspiciously. 

Meanwhile, gunboats, accompanied by transports, move up the rivers for fire support and to complete the strangle hold on transportation in the Great Forest.  Transport vessels unload fresh reinforcements and to evacuate wounded/civilians where necessary. 

This isn't an attack on any good army, yet.  I say this because if the Dwarfs attack the Brets, which there is some talk of, then we may have to be pulled into that conflict based upon our treaty and the Asur would more than likely get pulled in as well.  There is a clause saying we don't have to come to their aid, but we'll see what happens there.

[Veldemere]

Wiss, you are, as ever, my conscience. I am sorry that I may have jumped to conclusions about the new Karaks as one was mooted foe my region and another as you rightly say for one of the european locations, I merely assumed (incorrectly as it seems) that they were going for one in every region. Please do not let this mild inaccuracy invalidate any of my other valid comments. Still anyone who has the NEB there ate loads of abandoned Karaks, but let greed take its rewards!

Let us hope we do not have to attack the dwarves, there is still hope they will not do WAAC.

thankyou for your consideration Aquiliter.

[Giladis]

1) As many mentions of the Hunters of Sigmar (knightly order) mentioned in as many posts as possible.
Agreeable

2) The HE navy supporting the Empire navy to take complete control of the rivers of the Empire (and then, other than trade vessels, leaving altogether)
Crucial to our plans so agreeable

3) Support of the Council of Light (or whatever it ends up being called) to discuss what is done to the crown if any of the 'good' forces get it (I am loosely including Dwarves in that).
What was said before, but considering the situation we shall reconsider

4) In the Barren Hills support of the captured populace of Egon(s)dorf being returned after each Druchii opponent is defeated.
Unfortunately we can't help you on this one but we can do is and what would give me much pleasure is. Those Druchii that get captured will be sold on the Arabian slave market in Marienburgh and 10% of the gain will be given to the people of Eginsdorf to help the recuperate

In return I would like to present these points:

1) Mention us clearing the wilds of the dark creatures.

2) Cultural and Command liason whose main duty would be to try and prevent further blunders. Shall we say Teclis steped in to calm his old friend. Considering all I belive a wizard and a mage would best fit this role.

3) One day in each of the coming weeks we may call on you and you may call on us to help fluffwise in dayly missions like battle at the Beligos Hill and Metting of the Winds.

4) Giladis personaly offers a hundred Lothren Sea Guard and a Mage to assist the Imperial commander in the region so that he may better defeat evils that want to bring this human nation low. In return Empire forces are to pick up and store any wyrdstone thay find in special boxes that will be given to them and than return the boxes to us so that we may destroy the wyrdstone and slowly start purifying the land.


What do you say?


P.S. I promise should you ever have a chance to see me in my other IC ( Human, Slann, Tomb King, Gnoblar ) you will see I am a very in line. Otherwise if any of your commanders wish direct contact with me I am willing to give you my MSN address on your asking.

[Veldemere]

1) As many mentions of the Hunters of Sigmar (knightly order) mentioned in as many posts as possible.
Agreeable

2) The HE navy supporting the Empire navy to take complete control of the rivers of the Empire (and then, other than trade vessels, leaving altogether)
Crucial to our plans so agreeable

3) Support of the Council of Light (or whatever it ends up being called) to discuss what is done to the crown if any of the 'good' forces get it (I am loosely including Dwarves in that).
What was said before, but considering the situation we shall reconsider

4) In the Barren Hills support of the captured populace of Egon(s)dorf being returned after each Druchii opponent is defeated.
Unfortunately we can't help you on this one but we can do is and what would give me much pleasure is. Those Druchii that get captured will be sold on the Arabian slave market in Marienburgh and 10% of the gain will be given to the people of Eginsdorf to help the recuperate

In return I would like to present these points:

1) Mention us clearing the wilds of the dark creatures.
I do not see any problem with this it segues perfectly into our fluff and goals

2) Cultural and Command liason whose main duty would be to try and prevent further blunders. Shall we say Teclis steped in to calm his old friend. Considering all I belive a wizard and a mage would best fit this role.
I think this would be a good idea, provided meetings can be done cordially it, again, would benefit us both.

3) One day in each of the coming weeks we may call on you and you may call on us to help fluffwise in dayly missions like battle at the Beligos Hill and Metting of the Winds.
Ok, although we have not had many daily missions but as the resolution gets closer I am sure this will be of mutual benefit. This is also now possible as we have left our strongholds and gone out into the world

4) Giladis personaly offers a hundred Lothren Sea Guard and a Mage to assist the Imperial commander in the region so that he may better defeat evils that want to bring this human nation low. In return Empire forces are to pick up and store any wyrdstone thay find in special boxes that will be given to them and than return the boxes to us so that we may destroy the wyrdstone and slowly start purifying the land.
I would gladly take your seaguard to help us in the defense of the waterways and proof of the newfound trust between the 2 factions. and your mage would be welcome into the inner circle of the command group of the Barren Hills, further than that is not in my remit but I suspect Wissenlander in the US would be interested in discussing such a deal. We are unaware of any Wyrdstone being found but if we are to find it we would return it provided you were prepared to share some of the information about them with our Celestial Order (as founded by Teclis)

What do you say?


P.S. I promise should you ever have a chance to see me in my other IC ( Human, Slann, Tomb King, Gnoblar ) you will see I am a very in line. Otherwise if any of your commanders wish direct contact with me I am willing to give you my MSN address on your asking.

I look forward to hearing from you and hope we can come to a mutually beneficial understanding.

[wissenlander]

I'm in agreeance with this.  I would be very happy for greater coordination and support from our sides and you have mine, on these issues.

[Giladis]

Than it is agreed. The orders will be implemented as of tomorrow.

Wissenlander I gather you are US commander?

[Dendo Star]

Giladis, thank for your work here with our community.  The Empire benefits greatly from it! 

[wissenlander]

I am US commander, yes.  Who might be in charge of your US region?

[Giladis]

TimmyMWD is I think.