Topic: Reunification

[wissenlander]

Well, I think that Karl Franz is going to come to his senses, or whatever it is, and rescend his quest for the crown and we'll be allies with the Dwarfs once again.

I think we should preempt the Emperor and show that we can put past transgressions behind us and FORGET all of the tension and hurt feelings from the last few weeks.  We are very close to working something out, but I think pride is stopping both sides from coming to the table.

I know some out there are thinking this is a waste of a great storyline, and I would agree with you, but only to a certain point.  It is a good story, but one that we cannot have taken seriously in such a short time and with no lasting impact.  Such thoughts only further the gap between our once staunch allies, so I believe we should put them to rest.

I move that we again unite with the Dawi for the end of the campaign in a show of unity.  Who's with me?

[Veldemere]

You are probably right and certainly have put more effort into balancing this campaign than anyone else, but we did not start the conflict and any resolution must come from the agressor in my opinion. This may seem like something of an entrenched opinion but I do not hold a grudge as long as them but will not forget a slight.

The Dwarves make a powerful ally and fearsome enemy, but it is up to them to apologise for acting completely out of character and adopting a WAAC stance (so typical of their army book, if they really cared we would have an organ gun not the HBVG).

There is more effort needed to make peace.

[Dendo Star]

Good man!  Glad you're my Commander. 

[Veldemere]

Dendo, I notice your signature has changed. I would love to see what has changed you both.

[Blackthorn]

This has been the biggest blunder of the entire campaign. It’s a disgrace that we have been unable to come too some sort of agreement, apart from the odd fluff mention here and there.
I don’t know how we have ended up in this mess, when the Empire ambassadors came to Brewery I was over at Da Warpath & Blood Keep. I have not read the initial Empire/Dawi proposal I don’t want to know, but what ever was said has left such bad feelings that any future agreement has been next to impossible. I truly wish that things had been different.

Blackthorn

[Veldemere]

hmmmm, not entirely true from what I experienced over at the bewery. I feel you and Daft owe this forum some serious apoligies, and I know some people have already changed their signatures to forgive you but those that took longer to offend take longer to forgive.

[Ostermarker]

No, actually, it wasn't really what was said. We approached the Dwarfs, they said *paraphrased* "Get Lost." So we backed off, and haven't really been approached by the Dwarfs, except you really, also the intereference in our negotiations didn't go down well either.

Of course if this was eral life, then I think that the Dwarfs wouldnn't have done it, but if htey had, then it would have been a political blunder on their part and war wouild be likely.

But this is a game. Dwarfs would be fighting Empire anyway, it depends on what armies people have. The fact that GW left this seed is their fault not ours, however the way Bugman's took it IS their fault. In this position the fighter in me cries "No quarter given, and no expected", while the negotiator adds, "...if they don't apologize"

I agree with Veldemere (and not just cos he's my Commander )

[Blackthorn]

Me, me… why? How have I slighted you are the Empire?
Count, PM me your grievances, to my knowledge I have always been honest and forthright with you. That would explain why you stopped replying to my PM’s I sent…. You should have PM’ed me about this earlier. Actually forget the PM do it here in public....

Blackthorn

[Veldemere]

To be honest I did not continue our PM discussions as you insisted on communicating PMs with VCs and Skaven. I got the impression that you were trying to manage the campaign with the tacit support of other races, insisting on doing your negotiations through PMs. Whereas the Generals in the Barren Hills are brighter than understanding that I may be a Dwarven puppet and all discussions I had were held in the open.

Similarly any slights on me will be delivered in public on this forum, as will all apologies!

[Blackthorn]

My negotiations with the Skaven involved three posts (I could be wrong, one to advertise a flash animation I made of the Barren Hills and the Greenskins getting whipped).
The other two where with respect to the Heart-Stone idea.
Just re-read your post, I have never, never PM’ed any Vampire Count/Skaven player on there respective forums. The reason for PM's between us (The content was/is very explosive....surely you would not have me post that content in a public forum?).

I never tried to manipulate the Empire faction, infant the level of information I told you was the same as a Council member on the Council of Thanes at Bugman’s. That’s how highly I regarded our “friendship”, I have at times clashed very openly and publicly in threads at Bugmans; trying to get a Empire/Dawi agreement passed.

One thing I will not be doing is apologizing, for I have done nothing which warrants such a statement. And unless you can state otherwise I will hold this position.


Blackthorn

[Mark Perry]

Crikey the new beginning lasts about 2 minutes

What happend, had happend, some dwarfs not you Blackthorn were shall we say "Blunt" in their communications with us.

Not all dwarfs have been so "Blunt" with us. Cant judge them all by a few Dwarven hot-heads.

Similarly if the Dwarfs have had fluff conversations with other races, so what? I think we have spoken to a few races Orcs in particular, and I seem to remember a Skaven ambassador over here for fluff reasons to.

Ive had a good few battles with dwarfs and made a few refrences to the "Blunt" responce we got and it made the victory all the sweeter. Now its time to forgive and move on.

So we are allies again, which is what we all knew would happen. So lets work together on fluff etc and make sure that we get the result we want

[Veldemere]

"I would like to mention one other thing to you. And only with your approval will I enact on it. I believe I can incorporate the Vampire Counts into this common opening move. I would suggest that they attack the Skaven Lair, this will occupy these two evil races for the 1st week. From the SOC they had roughly the same number of battles. It also enables us to track and predict their movements for the first week. This relieves pressure from your settlements and keeps them away Dawi armies. I realise this is an unusual proposal, but it pits two evil enemies against each other. But as I already stated I do not want enact on this without your say."

An excerpt of one of the original posts you sent to me, please do not argue or I will make more public. We will accept apologies.

[Blackthorn]

That does not prove that I had PM’s with Skaven & Vampire Counts. It shows I kept you abreast of all dealings, I will save you your blushes and not post your response.

Not that it matters, to get the common opening move, it had to be pitched that Vampires where attacking Skaven to keep the Empire on board. The Vampire Counts where well aware of this from the Blood Keep thread. Yes that is a thread on a public forum and not PM.

This is pointless Count, not unless you can produce something which shows how I have slighted either you are the Empire faction then I will bid you a good day.

**Edit** Wiped 3 paragraphs **

I do wish the Empire well, I do regret the complete lack of agreement. I have no real idea why Veldemere feel’s that I have wronged him or the Empire faction.
So I will leave it at that. If Wissenlander wishes to propose anything over at Bugman’s it will be considered and once again I will vocally voice my favor for it.

I will not impose of you any further.

Thane Morgan Blackthorn
Councillor to the Council of Thanes

[Wyzer1]

Uh... that went downhill fast

Lets see: Posted on: Today at 01:01:29 AM to Posted on: Today at 05:32:06 AM  Uncool, I missed those four hours...

I will save you your blushes and not post your response

?? uh... care to elaborate more?

So, Wissenlander throws up the carrier pigeon, we hear a, "BANG" and we look over and Veldemere is smiling holding a shotgun...

So does that mean we are reinstating our DW campaign? lol

[Veldemere]

I do truly apologise as Wissenlander has proven himself to be the one we should all follow in this campaign. He has put so much effort in to other forums, so I would urge others to trust him before me. Sadly I am a Yorkshireman and as any Brit will tell you we are cussid and feel that a slight deserves an apology. Sadly we do sometimes see a slight where there was not one, I think it is up to each payer to decide whether the dwarves were right to forget their first loyalty and set aside a 3000 year old grudge to obtain something we probably would have given them anyway.

I will bow down to the masses and will apologise if anyone on this forum thinks I have been out of order. I merely ask that if found responsible the Dawi offer the same.

And the closest thing I have to a shotgun is my HLR and if my engineer could shoot his own ass with a HLR I would be impressed.

That said I have now not had a cigarette in 4 weeks and am still not a pleasent person to be around.

But I will get over it.

[Michael W]

I'm on your side, Veldemere.  The dwarves caused a little too much trouble at the start of this for an easy make-up.  But I don't think that the results of this campaign are going to give them much reason to change their ways in the future.

[Gneisenau]

Wissenlander has proven himself to be the one we should all follow in this campaign. He has put so much effort in to other forums (..).

I fully second that statement.

I'm not under the impression that you have done anything wrong, Veldemere, and I share your opinion on this issue. You chose your words with caution, and you remained polite. Oh, and if I'm not finding a signature in the next week, I'll be using this:

(T)hose that took longer to offend take longer to forgive.

I respect anybody who bites his lip and engages negotiations with the dwarfs. However, the fact that it takes only a single well-expressed differing opinion to make them reconsider should tell us something about the earnesty of their offer.

[Dendo Star]

We go back about 2500+ years.  I think we're good.

For the good of the Empire, listen to Wissenlander.

[Ostermarker]

No offense to Dendo and Wissenlander, but I agree with Veldemere. The wrong was the Dwarfs, if Blackthorn is still reading this I am not saying it was his. Hence why I said "their fault" rather than "your fault".

The Dwarfs had wronged us by insulting us and blocking our negotiations with other races.

(No, I'm not a yorkshireman, I'm wirralian, welsh, scouse, a bit brumy, so I'm a bit of a mix. But like Veldemere, I'd prefer an apology at least before I would agree with the Dwarfs on this matter)

[Fandir Nightshade]

I will give food and shelter to all dwarves coming to the Räuberdale. I think there is no place for ranting of politicians if the great foe has to be destroyed. I say after the battle for the crown lots of dwarves will take up the slayer oath for ther childish behaviour.

But we are no dwarves. We stand over petty grudges and see the greater good. There is no harm for us supporting the dwarves. The trust is gone but there is no reason to weaken each other because of some slights. I say lets work together and after Orcs, Chaos, Dark Elves and the Undead are forced off imperial ground. We will take the higher road and discuss with the dwarves the wrongs they did.

[cisse]

No offense to Dendo and Wissenlander, but I agree with Veldemere. The wrong was the Dwarfs, if Blackthorn is still reading this I am not saying it was his. Hence why I said "their fault" rather than "your fault".

The Dwarfs had wronged us by insulting us and blocking our negotiations with other races.

You're for the most part right on this; some of the more hot-headed members over at Bugman's were a little less diplomatic than good Blackthorn here. I did some of the diplomacy there, and to be honest, some replies were rather blunt. Then there's the matter of trying to isolate us by conducting agressive negotiations....

Still, I'm with Dendo and Wiss on this. I'm sure most of them did it out of character or just because they wanted to get the best deal out of this. We've got to put this behind us. We don't hold grudges, let's hope the Dwarfs see reason and do not hold any against us either.

[wissenlander]

Wow...

First off, I would like to thank everyone who looks to me as a 'leader' in this. I do appreciate the thoughts and thanks, although I'm nothing special.

Secondly, this has gotten past IC Warhammer folks, and it has for a long time, we just haven't fully owned up to it.  It stemmed from IC actions but spiraled out of control.

Whether anyone realizes it or not, most of what we've been peeved about, and maybe the Dwarfs as well, is how things were taken OOC.  Maybe the Dwarfs do owe us an apology, maybe we owe them one.  Right now I don't know anymore.  There has been a lot of debate on whose fault it is.  From a story perspective that's fine, it actually makes for that great story I know Michael W wants so bad.

I believe that a crucial factor that was missing here was open communication.  Forum hopping alowed people (and I do mean people, I'm not pointing the finger at anyone) to pick up on one or two things and run with it, and instead of us trying to talk it out openly like we maybe should've, we started screaming how wronged we were.  And believe me, I'm in on this too.

I'm not trying to guilt anyone into agreeing to this.  If most don't want to, that's fine.  But I do think we should start the healing process between forums.  And in some ways I think a fluff agreement/alliance would begin this.

I could be wrong about this, but just speaking my peace.

[Ostermarker]

I think, in the least, a "We shouldn't have done what we did" could start the healing process, but to be proper healing it needs to be both approaching it from this angle, not just one forum.

An alliance might be possible IC, though of course we would have to include the Brets politically in our allies asking the Dwarfs not to attack them. They were here first.

IC, the damage may have been deep, but the negtiators would surround it as doctors to the wound. (Bad metaphor, but it wanted to be continued ) If the Dwarfs will accept us this time, GW may ignore it, as this would make the big three 2 on 1.

[Blood axe the Slayer]

Men of the Empire;

The War for the Nemesis Crown will soon come to an end,the final days are upon us. Each of our armies has proven they can stand victorious alone, without the other. But together,we could be much stronger. United,our forces would be almost invincible. A vast army of good to sweep all the forces of evil before it. Barbs and insults have been traded by both sides. Both Maen & Dwarf have been blinded by pride & greed. The Nemesis Crown has already wrecked havoc by causing a rift between us. It is time to set aside past differences and prove that we are more noble then that. It is time for the final stand. I extend the hand of the Dwarves in friendship. Will we stand united in the end?

Blood Axe

OOC- I'd like to propose an alliance between us and all our allies & the Empire with its allies. The Wood Elves are also welcome, as this would help clear their forest realm of evil also. Its the last week, it would be nice for the good factions to stand together united vs. evil and crush them!

[wissenlander]

Dendo, I notice your signature has changed. I would love to see what has changed you both.

I actually asked Dendo to take it off of his sig.  I knew that he would do so, so it made my part a lot easier.   He was never after them fluff wise, just one of those things.  Won't put words into his mouth, but I knew where he stood, maybe he can explain it better than I.

What's changed me in all this is the fact that I realized that this has gone past WFB.  This is getting personal, between forums and I don't want that to happen.  If we were to have some animosity between races (such as the orcs/obvious but we still have a good relation with them, at least I do) then it would've been fun.

I think many have made mistakes in this campaign, from GW command all the way down to us on the front lines.  In a way it was fun, but it's now become frustrating...probably more so for myself than many others because of the time in which I've put in (yay work!).