Topic: Grand Battle 10k: Empire Tactical Thread

[commandant]

For those who want to play the Empire.   Stuff to be done

1: Recuit and army.   10,000 points to spend.   

2: Find a leader.   I suggest all the generals draw straws and the one withe the short straw be crowned empire general but if you prefer another method let me know.

The map will look something like the map on the Grad Scale tread [map 2] though it is subject to some change.

The rules of the game will be published shortly.   Some house rules [magic mainly] will apply.   They too will be published shortly.

[Chemnitz]

Here's a list to get the conversation started.  I made this list by trying to incorporate one of everything, allowing all our potential units to come to the party:

Total - 9974 points

General's Calvary - 3348
Lvl 4 Life (265 pts) + Power Stone + Talisman of Endurance
10 Archers, (70 pts)
23 Inner Circle Knights (640 pts) w/ Full Command + War Banner
   Luthor Huss (155 pts)
   BSB (141pts) Barded Warhorse, FPA, Lance, Shield, Dawnstone
22 Reiksguard Knights (632 pts) w/ Full Command + Steel Standard
   General Karl Franz, (394 pts) Barded Warhorse + Ghal Maraz
   Warrior Priest (128 pts) Barded Warhorse + HA + Sword of Might + Enchanted Shield + Luckstone + OTS
   Lvl 2 Beast Wizard (161 pts) Barded Warhorse, VHS, Warrior Bane
6 Knights (Lances) (142 pts) w/ Musician
5 Knights (Great Weapons) (120 pts) w/ Musician + GW’s
Steam Tank (250 pts)
Steam Tank (250 pts)

Arch Lector's Infantry & Council of Light - 3386
Arch Lector on War Altar (319 pts)  Horn of Sigismund, Charmed Shield, Tailsman of Preservation, HA, GW
Lvl 1 Light (115 pts) Feedback Scroll
Lvl 1 Light (90 pts) Dispel Scroll
Lvl 2 Light (125 pts) Trickster's Shard   
Luminark of Hysh (120 pts)
General on Imperial Griffon (387 pts) +Bloodroar+FPA + Shield + Sword of Anti-heroes + White Cloak of Ulric + Potion of Speed
50 Spearmen (435 pts) w/ Full Command
      20 [Det] Free Company
      5  [Det] Archers
50 Halberdiers (505 pts) w/ Full Command
     20 [Det] Swordsmen
     5  [Det] Archers
20 Handgunners (360 pts)   
     10 [Det] Handgunners
     10 [Det] Handgunners
10 Crossbowmen, (90 pts)     
Engineer (65 pts)
Great Cannon (120 pts)
Helblaster Volley Gun (120 pts)
Engineer (65 pts)
Mortar (100 pts)
Helstorm Rocket Battery (120 pts)
Steam Tank (250 pts)

Special Forces - 2845
Balthasar Gelt Lv 4 Metal (360 pts)
Captasus (135 pts) Peg, FPA, Dragonhelm, Lance, Potion of Foolhardiness
5 Demigryph Knights (320 pts)  w/ Musician, Standard +  Banner of Eternal Flame
5 Demigryph Knights (310 pts) w/ Musician, Standard
6 Knights (Lances) (142 pts) w/ Musician
38 Greatswords (493 pts) w/ Full Command + Razor Standard
   Warrior Priest (120 pts) GW + Armour of Meteroic Iron
   Witch Hunter (105 pts) Brace + Gambler’s Armour + Ruby Ring of Ruin
40 Flagellants (490 pts) w/ Champion
Celestial Hurricanum (130 pts)
Great Cannon (120 pts)
Great Cannon (120 pts)

Scouts & Fast Cav- 395
10 Huntsmen (80 pts)
5 Outriders (115 pts) Musician
5 Pistoliers (100 pts) Musician
5 Pistoliers (100 pts) Musician

[Chemnitz]

Or... we could say 'house rules - no restrictions!' And then take 40 Stanks.

[swampsheep]

Or... we could say 'house rules - no restrictions!' And then take 40 Stanks.

If we should be able to claim any sort of fluff-abidance, that limit must be somewhere between 6-8 depending on in-game time and which source you consult. 

I looked over your list and realized, that it is simply too massive to take in and come with any good feedback on. Either I have nothing to say or it will be a marathon post which - let's be honest - probably won't really make a lot of difference.

I think it could be interesting to make an overall strategy before making an army list. Maybe it makes sense to do a classical strong center, defensive left flank and offensive right flank or maybe it should simple be regarded as three separate armies with separate strategies. In any case, having an idea of the objectives would help greatly (is it going to be defensive or is there actually a point with going the offensive route?).

EDIT: Another strategy could be to find the general first and then let the general make the army list. Then the captains could get assignments and ask for which units they would like to fulfill that assignment.

[Realjuan]

Interesting to help the empire with what ever little knowledge I may have or leech some from this thread.

We are going to have 3 armies, or at least 3 commanders, and I was thinking that we may want to do 3 different list and gave each a theme/province. For the fluff! 

I don't think anyone has mention a story for the battle, but maybe we could have someone in charge of it (not me, I don't speak English  ).

[swampsheep]

Looking at the list I thought of one thing that needs to be settled; Luminarks and Hurricanums.

Fluff-wise, there isn't anything wrong with including more than one. The question is, if the limitation to only getting the dispel dice / power dice of one luminark/hurricanum is per side or per "magic area". I would think the latter, but it would be nice to have settled.

[Forumite]

I think I´m joining Empire for this one. Chaos doesn´t have enough shooting and maneuvering for my taste.

Things I want to see:
6 great cannons
4+ mortars
4 HBVGs
4 Steam Tanks
one army focused on knights and DGs rolling up one flank
one army focused on steadfast infantry holding the middle
Different kinds of mages, not just Light, I want several different schools

[swampsheep]

A wish-list is a good idea.

I would like to see:

- A strong, offensive flank, a mixed middle and a defensive, slightly underpowered flank.
- 2 Griffons or more
- Units and characters with stories; unusual combinations and strategies that you can build stories into. The level 1 gold wizard riding along with the outriders or the two witch hunter brothers who are leading a rag-tag group of villagers (free companies) to kill the evil sorcerer that brought ruin to their village 10 years ago.
- A nice spread of wizards; I think pretty much all lores have their use in this match. I can see both Gold, Amber, Light, Life, Shadow and Heavens with obivous uses - and I guess both Death and Fire can be worked in there too.

[Forumite]

I´m thinking keeping the slow and durable in the middle, they hold while the flanks deal with their own enemies, in order to swing inward and deal with the rest of the middle. I´d like most of our artillery to be focused in the middle, in order to better support the flanks. I also want us to big on units, with 10k it will quickly get swamped if we field 10 untis of outriders and 5-strong knights, instead almost all cav should be in 20+ units and melee infantry 50 strong, at least.
As for shooting, I´m not sure how well Empire handgunners will be able to deal with Chaos infantry, also I think it will be hard to line shots with cannons. That´s why I want mortars, they don´t need line of sight, so even behind our infantry they can do some good.
On magic, I think we should get many lores, and try to get a mix of long-range lores and buffs, we want Chaos to come to us, at least in the middle. My suggestion is a Coven of Light for Banishment, Balthasar Gelt for Metal, horse-riding Beast Wizards with the cavalry, a Lvl 4 Heavens for the Comet, a lvl 4 Life to keep our big infantry alive and a few low-level Fire and Shadow for a mix of chaff-clearing, buffing and damage. With 3 flanks with their own magic, we can afford  several lvl 4s.

A strong flank with units of 20+ knights, DGs, Stanks, Riding Warrior Priests, Captasus and Beast-Wizards
A durable middle with 50+ strong units of halberdiers and Greatswords, backed up by handgunner and artillery and a Life-wizard
A lighter flank with cavallry, some infantry and fire+shadow wizards, weakened to give the other flanks an advantage in points.

[commandant]

The  Luminarks and Hurricanums will provide one DD or PD [depending] regardless on number.   I will decide which Magic Zone it appears in by virtue of a D3 re-rollable if there are magic zones without Luminarks or Hurricanums

[Chemnitz]

Well, like I said, I was making a list with one of everything, so people could see how they perform.  I do like the idea of fluff lists, but some units won't be anywhere to be seen.

I looked back, and I still like my list simply because of it's variety.

We should probably decide if we want to give one general 10,000 points and have him divide the units among sub-generals.  Or if we want to give three generals 3,333 points (and just confer on who gets what magical items, troop choices).

[Chemnitz]

I would probably tend to say we should have 1 General and 2 Lieutenants.  Allow the Lieutenants to make requests for what they want.  And then let the General try to work the requests into his 10,000 pt. list.

[Chemnitz]

Or... we could say 'house rules - no restrictions!' And then take 40 Stanks.

If we should be able to claim any sort of fluff-abidance, that limit must be somewhere between 6-8 depending on in-game time and which source you consult. 

Yeah, it was a joke, my list only has 3.

[Scalenex]

Why three armies?  Doesn't that defeat the novelty of one big army?

[Chemnitz]

I agree.  I think whoever is helping the General should make unit (or theme) requests to the General, but overall, we have 1 army. 

[Chemnitz]

So... who wants to lead and who wants to help?

[Forumite]

I´m up for the role of tactical advisor for the whole army, with focus on movements, target priority and magic. If the General has faith in me, I will take 2600p and make an avoidance/delay-army with the focus on stalling for time on my flank, while the other two stronger flanks (of about 3700p each) to sweep the rest of the battlefield. I must warn you, I have never commanded Empire before, and would feel more comfortable advising than commanding this one.

If I get my flank, then it will have 2 Stanks, mobile lvl4 Metal (Belthazar Gelt?) and a lvl 4 Shadow, mortars, outriders, redirectors and a few units of knights. I will deal a lot of damage but lose in the end while buying the rest of the army much needed time.

[Realjuan]

Will it be way to far fetch if each unit was someone? In theory they should follow the commanders instructions, but like in all battles they can decide to turn the back on that inexperience kid who's power comes from his daddy owning a castle. If so I will like to command an arty.

Note: Most probably this would require a whole another game, so you can ignore me.

[swampsheep]

Realjuan; I think that is a very different battle. And would require a lot of people.

I'm interested in joining as well in any capacity. Least of all I would like to command the middle, other than that, I'm open for anything.

[Forumite]

I´d like to include shooting, to take advantage of the lack of ranged on the WoC side. What kinds of shooting do you think are best? I´m worried about the range of handgunners and archers, they won´t be able to shoot during the first turn. Outriders and Pistoliers have the advantage of vanguard, high move and swiftstride in order to get in front of our line, shoot on the advancing enemy, and then retreat back, or die to slow them die depending on the situation.

Also unit sizes, I´m thinking we should focus on big units, really big units. They make it easier for us to buff them, not as many of our own things in the way while maneuvering and gives us steadfast. A unit of 60 Greatswords will cost about 700p, throw in a Warrior Priest, a Captain and some buffs, it will tear everything apart and never flee. That´s the kind of combat block I´d like to see.

[swampsheep]

I'm a huge fan of pistoliers. 6 man units with champion (repeater pistol) and musician will be very useful against chaos, and we can take six of them.
I also think we can get a lot of use from large-ish Outrider units.

I also think large units would be good. We might also see large units from the chaos side, so 60 man greatsword units sound good. So could 70-80 man spearman unit, especially combined with shadow magic. It'll be a horde with steadfast for a very, very long time.

[commandant]

PSBs

Any hero can be upgraded to a Personal Standard Bearer at the cost of 10 points.   The Entire army may have 2 personal standard bearers.   The Personal Standard Bearers may carry a magical banner with a max value of 50 points, but if they do they may not have any other magical equipment.

The Personal Standard Bearer allows his regiment to re-roll in the same way as the Battle Standard Bearer.

[Scalenex]

Are PSBs official for this?  If they are I think I'm bailing.  Half of my interest here is to see how an army this big can work out with a single battle Standard Bearer.

[commandant]

They are an option, You don't need to take them.   I feel that an army of this size would represent more than one area and as such have more than one set of standards.

[Forumite]

I like the sound of 2 smaller PSBs that can hold one unit each. We can keep the BSB in the middle while a PSB makes sure that the two most important death stars on the flanks hold the line. We´re still going to feel the absence of the BSB and General on our flanks, but this will mitigate it some.