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Author Topic: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.  (Read 2152 times)

Offline SaintofM

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Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« on: November 26, 2023, 03:15:14 AM »
Like with dark elves this will be a look at units that might be making a combat, how I think they will work, how to beat them and what made them good/bad.

As this is one of the confirmed armies I would like some thoughts from some of the other people on the forum. Pictures to help separate things and give a good visual are whatever I find on a search engine
 
Army rules I can see coming back: There were 2 I know the warriors of Chaos Had (going to call them WoC for short here on out).

Eye of the Gods and the Marks of Chaos.

Eye of the Gods allowed Characters and Champions to get a boost to their stats for killing an champion or character in a Challege, or having the finishing blow on a monster unit. Roll 2D6 and get what is on there. Most of them are a stat increase like a permanent +1 to Weapon Skill, Toughness, Number of Attacks, or Leadership (max 10). Others could give you an armor save that could be combined with what you have, a ward save or the gods might ignore you. The best case was a Double 6 and the worst was a Double 1.Best case scenario, you get a ward save and if you keep rolling on it you could have your champion/character become a Daemon Prince. You loose the mini but you get a prince with the marks and equipment there (so its always good to have one on hand even if you do not field one on the field of battle). On the other end said Champion/Character could get Stupidity and run the risk of moving randomly like a troll. Too many on here and they become a Chaos Spawn (with the same mark, so also a good idea to keep a few there just in case).


The marks have additional bonues. Most units including the CHaos Giant can take them, and it grants them bonus abilities based on that mark. Chaos Undifided is standatrd, but others will set you back a point or 2 a mini (10 or 15 for charecters).

Khorn most likly will give you Frenzy and ore Hatred. When I start playing they hadn't quite got their 7th eddition rules yet, so Khorn and his hatred of magic also made it so the units with his mark generated a bonus Dispell Die. This was removed I think for ballence reasons (not that this army was made for being overkill, just saying). The magic rules sound completly different than they had been before, so this might not be something this one either. I do suspect any magic item or gift chaos from him will have anti magic properties though. He is the Hammer of the group, and his units tend to be all about attack, attack, and attacking some more. He likes Red, alot. Alot alot. Alot alot alot alot. And Brass and Bronze, so enjoy those colors. Frankly besides the Blalde of Khaine in AoS, I can see plenty of World Eater minies being used here from 40K


Mark Of Slannesh: Usually will grant Immunity to Psychology, but some units (especially if they already have that) may be made faster, either in movement or in Initiative. I usualy see alot of pastel purples with this one, with maybe some pinks and blues, but mostly purpe.
Most of the Hedonists from AoS could work as Mauraders, but it would be interesting to see if some become units in the army proper.

Mark Of Nurgle: Some Editions it added Fear. Later editions had an ability where enemies had -1 to hit do to a combination of how resilient to pain they were and the stench and flies getting in the way. If Khorn will be the hammer or main DPS guy, then Nurgle will be the main Anvil or Tank guy. What ever this guy gets, it needs to add to the survivability and resilience of the unit. Do that and Papa Nurgle will be happy.
Lots of sickly greens and browns for this group.
I can see the humanish units here being used as Chosen. Same with some death ugad, adn I would use a couple of their cCarecters for lords and heroes on foot.

Tzeentch: Just as Planned. Like with Khorn, this guy was broken when I came into the game for a magic heavy army. Every unit with the mark generated a power die, and since you can cast spells until you run out of spells and or power dice, this army very dangerous. Then there was the charecters as those not wizzards became a level 2 one, and those that were had more potency in magic. Since then its been a 6+ ward save (or magical attacks on some units) but I felt he needed more than this. Dosn't have to be broken like 6th eddition, but something a little more thematic than slight chance the Great Deceiver will protect you. Either way, want to do a theme army, go ahead.
Blue is Tzeentch's color, though he branches out from time to time (pink horrors anyone).
Not as many from the Deciples that would work as anything but charecters, but maye a few from the Thousand Sons.


So lets talk about the namesake unit of the army...in a minute.

The core will consist of Marauders: Normal-ish humans that worship Chaos. Mostly take after the Vikings and Conan the Barbarian, but other Barbarin groups get mixed in here and there.
Marauder Horsemen: one of the few troops that can take range options, they will get first blood more times than not.
Warriors of Chaos: The namesake of the army, what Anti Paladins wish they were.
Forsaken: What happens when the you get too many  gifts of chaos, you turn into a mindless monster. Also see a bunch of mutants.
War Hounds: Murderous puppies of DOOM!
Chaos Chariots: Get on, we are going on an Adventure.

Marauders: I suspect with the Exception of a WS of 4 they will have common stats of a human. They will also be priced like most core human units so a unit of 10 with maybe a 5 or 6 points a mini. The unit usually came with the options of Flails or Hand Weapon and Sheild however I Think they could also take great weapon, and why not great weapons. The bases were larger as most chaos units are (the standard 28 mm most Table Top Minies). These upgrades are going to be taken, adding a point or 2 to the unit. Combine this with potential marks I can see a unit of 10 being setting you back 80 to 120 points. I can't think of anything too wrong with them, save for a lack of armor.

Light armor and maybe shields at most, so a round a shooting should whittle them down. This lack of armor also means units with lots of attacks will also do lots of harm.



Marauder Horsemen will be about 15 points I think with just pony and hand weapon. In the past they could take a shield or light armor for  extra point but take both and they loose fast cavally perks. Their range options are either javelins or throwing axes, and their mele options are either spears or flails. Not much for range harassment, but i can see them making use of the fast cave maneuverability to get flanks and rear charges. Of course, they are also good at chasing down enemy units that are fleeing, and getting to range units in the back of the army. That said, being fast cave means they won't be main attackers as any most combat heavy units can take them out. But as supports, they might have  a chance to shine.



Of course these are normal folk. You want HEAVY METAL VIKINGS!

Warriors of Chaos: One part Frank Frazzetta's Death Dealer, and a lot of parts 80's heavy metal album cover, the unit. Most of the stats save for number of attacks and wound count can be found on a Empire Captain. Even then they have 2 attacks standard and their champion has a third. The main seller is the chaos armor which has the save 4+ save as Empire Plate. This means they can hit hard and take a hit. They get in close combat, you are in a world of hurt unless you are the one pushing them to the enemy.


Their down side is they will be priced accordingly. 14 or 15 points each, add marks more. Then there is the options of 2 hand weapons, shields, halberds, and or great weapons which only add to their devastation, but also add to their price tag.

How to deal with them: Getting in melee with them will be difficult, so if you plan to tr whittling them down first in the shooting phase. Guns will work as they will go through a couple layers of armor, and war machines as well. I also suspect the lore of Metal wizard will be in dire need. If you do, have a tarpit to keep them there like zombies or flagellants, an anvil like Ironbreakers to hold them. Flank em, and use something that hits hard and goes through armor like great weapons and halberds. ANy magic that boosts wounding and armor penatraton is also something that would be nice to have.

I can see these guys in units of 15 to 20. Their new look keeps looking good, and the old ones are not half bad.



CHaos War Chariot: Thinking 100 points each, a pair of steeds that have high WS, and a pair of charioteers with Halberds. Toughness 5 and Armor of 4+ keeps it around. THeir main perk is the fact they have D6 impact hits, and depending on how they rule scythed Wheels this eddition, this will make them more deadly with either more attacks or stronger hits. Impact hits deal damage on the turn they charge, granting them free auto hits befor combat really gets going. Their problem is they can't march and unless they can be taken in groups like they can in Age of Sigmar, these guys are going to be a support. A strong support that can run alongside marching units of infantry, but support. Besides the armor, they hive a wide flanks and if they can't get a charge in or a high enough roll for the number of Impact hits, their usefulness goes down hill. That said they have plenty of potential.



Forsaken: What happens when you get too many "blessings" from the big four. You start becoming more beastial, your humanity slowly whittled away till you are little more than a slavering hound to be unleashed upon the enemy. They have much of the same stats as a normal chaos warrior, but have D3 attacks and Frenzy.  beleive you had to roll for the entire unit, and it was simply roll a D6 and that was the attacks they would get (1 and 2=1, 3 &4=2, 5and 6=3) So a roll of 5 while frenzied grants them all 4 attacks (3 from the D3, 1 from the Frenzy). Also immune to psycology so bound to ignore a few wounds.

THey should be a couple more points, all the way to 19. When first introduced they had heavy armor for the armor buckling from the changes. 8th edition gave them CHaos armor. The marks also made different changes; khorn added hatred, slannesh  extra movement or Initiative (i forget), Tzeentch Magical attacks, and Nurgle either normal stuff or poison. Either edition also gave them random mutations that range from stupidity to armor piercing and more on a roll of the D6. As much as I think an official model would be awesome, this is begging to be kit bashed. I also see some of the mutant and or daemon possess being used here.

Because they are frenzied, I take a small cast cavalry unit with a musician and bait them. As they are running around, use shooting and magic to whittle them down. Also high strength attacks. I doubt they will have as high WS as the Warriors, but still in the Great Sword territory. Agan, a round of handgun fire should whittle some of them down.




Edit: Forgot about Chaos Warhounds. The quintessential beast unit, they will also be in the Beasts of Chaos Army no doubt. Half Stared, abused, and twisted by the powers of Chaos, they are anything but friendly puppers. Like most beast units, I doubt they can take on most units on their own. That said, they can flank and rear charge stronger units, chase fleeing units, and attack most shooting units. I know two upgrades they had were scaly skin (6+ armor save) and poison attacks for a point each bringign up to what I woould think end is 10 points. If I took them I would give it a rabies with the poison attack and forgo the other. Not the strongest unit in the game, but they were not meant to be .





So thoughts, feelings, and oppionons on these guys?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 05:39:48 AM by SaintofM »

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2023, 12:38:36 PM »
I like it! :icon_biggrin: :eusa_clap:

Thanks for sharing their fluff. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
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Offline Rowsdower

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2023, 12:03:10 PM »
They look disgusting. Good job!

Offline SaintofM

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2023, 07:11:45 AM »
Thanks to both of you. Those are not my minies, i just found some on a google search (if mine I usually say so on say on my Dark Elf Pages). That said I do have a Mutalith Vortex Beast to show off...eventually. Might make some forsaken with some of the bits i have.


Until then the special. Again, speculation up to the high heavens.

Chosen of Chaos: Yeah spoilers but: You need to negate their armor or have range attacks that eat up their armor like my fat self does a large bucket of popcorn. They are the best of the best, the most elite of them. Probably some points in WS and other stats higher than normal (insert laughter here) Chaos Warriors, but 7th and 8th edition also gave them the roll on the Eye of the Gods chart (rerolling the ganna be turned into a spawn and Gods Ignoring you scores) then applying that role to the unit's states for the rest of the game. THey could have Great Weapons, Sword and Board, sword and Board and or halberds and the marks. Probably going to start in the mid 20's to ear 30's point wise. I can see some of the Age of Sigmar units from the different dedicated fractiosn of the dark gods used here. I would definitly use the Death Guard and World Eater Models from 40k here if not in the CHarecter options (I wouldn't even need to mode them that much). On and they can take more expensive magic banners, so if they bring back a few from 8th eddition I can see Terror and Armor Piring being used here, if not on Chaos Knights. Speaking of Which...



CHaos Knights: 40 odd points a peice if I had to guess, simply because they will be overkill. They have fear, chaos armor, shields, and barding on a horse that has a Maurader's WS. They have normal hand weapons, Lances, or Enscrolled weapons; the latter gives them a constant +1 strength and magical attacks (effectively giveing the entire unit Swords of Strength from previous edditions). A Unit f 10 is going to be enough for most battles, and anything bigger will be the definition of a Death Star unit: A unit that will be a main unit that will win you great victories, but if you exploit its weaknesses it will go down (say like a super destructive battle station vs a spunky young farm kid).

They are going to be super armored, so you will need war machines. You will need magic that can get through armor. Guns may work on Brettonian and Elf Cavalry, but we are talking about guys in 1+ armor the whole time, so unless I get corrected on the armor in the next few posts, I am assuming a handgun will bring them back up to a AS of 3+. So yeah, most attacks will not go through this. That said, tarpits are always an option, for both these guys and the Chosen. On the top of my head, I know Vampire Count Zombies and EMpire Flagalents were the main targpit units in the game as the former didn't run away and you could just keep spamming raise dead to make more of them, while the latter had unbreakable with out the crumbling action of being undead. Have a healing wizard on them and you two can keep the knights there forever and ever and ever...or at least until the final turn or the store is about to close.

As cavalry, they will have large flanks. THere will also be monsters that are made for this. I forget if Killing blow affected cavalry units, but it would be a good choice to use if so.



Gorebeast CHariot: You know, I am surpsires gorebeasts were not a unit choice. I mean think about it: You are going to make either a normal chariot or a gorebeast chariot, so they should have been their own unit. Otherside, I guess you could always use them as Chaos Spawn or Daemonic Mounts, or if you custom build a Alter of CHaos usse them. Untl then...

Think chariot, but you have the lovechild of a gorilla and a rhino pulling it with all the anger management skills of a football hooligan/Philadelphia Eagles Fan. Like a monsterous beast should (save pegasus and Giant eagles for some odd reason) they have 3 high strength attacks, and cause fear. Aside from that they have much of the same stats as a normal chariot, and the strengths and weaknessess of one as well so see my thoughts on the Chariot and go from there. It will be interesting if they get the stomp rule. Monsterous units in 8th ed had an extra "Stomp" attack that came with Always Strike Last rules. However because how cumbersom a chariot is, those pulling one lost it. It will be interesting to see.



Chaos Ogres: Might get a Ogre Glutton Kit just to make some of these guys, if not use them to make Rat Ogres. Essentually what the ogroid are now. Big dumb bruiserss that went off on their wonderlust and found the perfect source of food and fights with the servants of chaos. Some even turn to the worship of chaos. As ogres they are more reliant to the influence of chaos, and have a distrust if not hatred towards the dragon ogres, but are here for a good time. I can see them armed with a handweapon with options for sheilds, 2 hand weapons, and even great weapons. Light armor, heavy armor, and chaos armor. Even marks of chaos. Being a monsterous unit, you should only need a rank of three and 2 or 3 ranks of these guys should work. A normal ogre was about 28 to 30 points give or take, so they shouldn't be more than that to 40 once marks and other upgrades are given. Can take normal comand optiosn but I forget if they could take magic bannners. I think they could even have eyes of the gods.
 

their stats are the mix bag. Move 6, WS3, BS2, S and T 4, 3 wounds, Initiative 2, 3 attackss normal with a 4th on the champion, and an LD of 7 or 8. So they won't have the best reaction time, but as one Demotivational I found on Initiative said: Its not about who goes first. Its who survives the other guy's attacks. Part of this will come from what you upgrade them to be equiped with. Part of this will be from the fact they have fear so at the very least they will make enemeies have to check to see if they can hit them normaly, or if they are stuck with 5's and 6's until their next round of combat. An ogre last eddition had a unit strength of 3, so 2 full ranks of them will have a unit strength of 18 regardless of how many wounds they have left. This means a unit of 6 to 9 can easily grant this unit to have more a unit strength than some enemy units of a normal size.  if this is the case, that means they have to test to see if they can even charge the ogres if they are outnumbered by the unit strength.

If GW is smart, these coasts will also be offsset with Impact Hits. THey finaly gave it to them in 8th ed I think, but the main ogre ary could get 1 Impact Hit for every mini in close combat. These became D3 impact hits per mini if they had a charge range of 10 or more inches. As impact hits are done before anything else, they cann get a couple (anywhere from 3 to 9) in before combat at their unit strength (speculating based on previous editions), take a few hits that their hide and armor should tank for the most part), then weapon attacks, then a trio of stomps. At WS3 probably not going to get alot of hits in, but they have alot of attacks so some bound to hit. Overal, this should be a fun unit to play.

This said, they are far from invincible. WS 3 means that they have a 50/50 chance of being hit by most units in melee, and lightly better by more eleite level ones. Halberds and great weapons can even the odds if not outright get through their tough hides and armor. ANd because they probably have a up to a 4+ or 3+ armor save at most, and most maybe a heavy armor's 5+, bows, crossbows, and handgunss will deal some damage to them. They have fewer ogres in a unit then an empire unit has men, therefore it will take less dead ogres to cause a panic than dead men to do the same. Also they will be rather pricy, both in points and in hard earn cash so they will be in smaller units for the most part.



Chaos Trolls: Trolls, we love you. I think CHaos Trolls could take an extra hand weapon, which is unique to them, granting them 4 instead of the normal 3 attacks. I can also see armor being an upgrade as there are armored trolls in the Total War video games for chaos. Alot of their stats will stink, namely WS 3, Initiative 1, and most likly a LD of 4. But they also have S5 strength and 3 to 4 attacks each. Or they can go for Troll Vomit Instead, where they exchange those attacks for one auto hit that ignores armor. So you want to deal with that anvil unit, or that Steam Tank; here's your monster. They also have fear and a form of Regeneration called mutant Regeneration that allowed them to roll on the Eye of the Gods chart if they roll alot of 6's on the regeneration save.

This all said, they have some drawbacks. Low weapon skill and Initiative means anyone not armed with great weapons will go first, and a massive amounts of attacks will still cause damage. ALso if they took any flaming damage that turn, say from a magical effect from a spell or banner that gives weapons flaming attacks that hit them, or a spell attack with flaming attacks such as Fireball, one successful wound will negate their regeneration the entire turn.

Against most units, say Empire Spearmen or Brettonian Errent Knights, they will have a 50/50 chance hitting them, and unless they are hiting them with Strength 4 hits from say halberds or S5 from a Great Weapon or Charging lance, they are going to wound a tiny fraction of the time. This fraction gets smaller when you have a 50/50 chance of regeneration saving. Take that regeneration away with some good flaming attacks, and a have halberds or great weapons to equal or get higher than their toughness, and now they going to have problems.

They will also be smaller units, 3 to 66, because they again will be pricy both in points and in one's disposable income. This said, there is a second problem, its their LD and the fact that Stupidity is BACK! Durring the New Strategy Phase, this is one of the confirmed psychology rules that will be in effect in the new Strategy phase. Its a LD test, they pass it they act as normal as you can get for something that lives in the chaos wastes. But if the 2 D6 score higher than their LD and they get distracted. We'll wait and see if they get Immune to Psychology all the time or only when they go stupid, but that was something that happened in older editions, but ore importantly they are forced to do a D6 Random movements. They have Movement 6 so a good march than a charge could see them in combat quickly. So for a couple of turns you may want a character on a Monstrous mount ike a daemonic mount or a general within shouting rang of them for a couple turns so they have their LD to work with. Otherwise...dwarves which will have crap movvement speed will be the ones charging them. Then again, that would be funny and I would love to see that!

Mini wise, I would like to see some new minies, but some green stuff on the existing Trogoth lines, maybe add a head there, some glasses and a keyboard there, and you have a good Maybe make two look like they are hitting each other with a pony of any color other than nature intended for added points.




Hellstriders: They came in I think 7th or 8th edition, want to say 8. They are Chaos Marauders that Slannesh tricked to being eternal hunters and so are permanently stuck on Striders of SLannesh: 2 legged sleek beasts with high Initiate, movement 10, fast cavalry, and poison attacks. Being Daemonic mounts they also conferred a 5+ ward save to their riders, and beasts of Slannesh this unit of course has the mark of slannesh. THey have spears and sheilds or flails, so all about getting that charge in. Being fast cavalry, probably not the best unit to have on more deadicated combat heavy units, espesialy ones in the special rank. However supporting one your own by attacking the flank of the same enemy, and or going after the range units behind the enemy front line is still a good strategy. With the ward save, they have better survivability than most fast cave, but still have their strength and wealnesses and being mounted on a daemon will lkly see them over 20 points per half naken man on snake horse thing.




Chimera: What fool thought this as a special unit was fair? I am all for OVERKILL being the name of the game here, but this...not a rare choice...the enemies of chaos need a chance to win. Introduced in Storm of Magic: A suppliment that allowed you to add an extra beast, mosnterous, monster units, and even daemons and undead in your army as well as boosting the amount of Power Dice you had so you could cast more potent spells more often. A quater of your total points extra was the amount, and that left plenty of room for giants, hydras, and all maner of beasties...including this one on the first page.

Going off Memory, LD 6 was its weakness. Aside from that it had the Strength and Toughness to deal with high armored and toughness foes, a number of wounds and a 4+ armor save to stick around for a while, 5 or 6 base attacks, an option for an additional tail attack or a tail attack that had D3 extra hits (the latter came into the Warriors of Chaos Book) and S4 flaming attack to deal with hoard enemies. Most monsters I like to lable as Browlsers that are built for taking on eleites and other monsters (less attacks, but decent high strength attacks and maybe things like illing blow to get past armor or other perks that allow them to deal more damage to a single target). Or Crowd Control: They get alot of attacks in to deal with the massess (in this case, 2-12 flaming S4 flaming attacks, one usse, pus about 5 or 6 base attacks +1-3 more base attacks that hit easier if this attack hits something in the rear of it) and that was before stomp! Judging from the Shagoth states they had, the stomp will be a more reasonable 1+D3....still lots of people go squish! Oh, and its flying with Terror!

Granted, the OG Chimera had to have molten lead poured down her throat to killer so maybe overkill works.

Currently its with the Beasts of CHaos, but that dosn't mean it can't go back. Speaking of beasts, shouldn't they have their own trolls in Old World as well?



Will Cover Spawn, SLaughter Brutes, Vortex Beasts, Warshrines, Giants, Hellcannons, Dragon Ogres, Shagoths, and Skullcrushers in my next post, with the one after that on the charecters, and the one after that what other potential units might be available in the future. 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 05:21:11 AM by SaintofM »

Offline SaintofM

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2023, 08:25:38 AM »
Almost done here. We'll have Unnamed Characters and other potential units from games and Forge World that might be fun to have.

Chaos Spawn: Chaos Spawn arn't that great, and it sems by design. Radom movement of 2D6, WS3, 1 D6 attacks. S4, 3 wounds, and a toughness of 5 are good, and their high LD and Unbreakable rules usually mean they will hold an enemy there. Fear is also not bad. But if core have better units, why waste the limited room in the Rare slot? 3 Reasons.

1. The Previously mentioned Eye of the Gods. 2. The Mutalith Beast I will get into in a few minutes, and 3.  Some people have 55 points to spend. You need to waste some points, so why not at that point Add a few more points you will have the various Mark that will add different effect Just a few excamples from previous editions included improved Strength, an extra D6 movement, poison attacks, and a flaming attack for Khorn, Slannesh, Nurgle, and Tzeentch respectively. They may come up with something entirrly different.


And as promised, some I did. The middle one was made out of a Air Drying Clay and I based it off of the Final Fantasy Monster Malboro.



Chaos Giant: Even without Marks, this guy is going to be tough! You'll also see him in Beasts of Chaos, Orcs and Goblins, and the PDF for Ogres. While between all the armies that take them there will be little flavor changes, the main things that tay the same are as followed:

Terror, Large Target, Stuborn, Immune to Psycology, close to Dragon stats in most areas save for WS which is 3 ad an * in its attack slot? THat is because in previous eddtions and most likly this one they came with 2 different sets of attacks depending on the size they were dealing with. Cavalry and Smaller: Small. Ogre, chariot, Chaos SPawn, Griffon and bigger? Big.

Roll a D6 and find out. THe small side this could be Yell and Bawl (win by 2 points regardless what the other guy has, dosn't deal damage), Swing with Club that dealt D6 Damage, Stomp which did another D6 damage but he had to test for falling over (more on that when I talk about the negatives), ANd Pick up someone in the unit. This one has its own list, but target any mini they are fighting, be it character or champion, and the enemy has to make a successful attack that wounds the giant (letting them go). They fail, and they end up dead right then and there. It just depends on how they go. Stuffed down what they hope is a pocket, squished, eaten, thrown back into their unit (causing D3 more wounds on the unit) or thrown into a neighboring one, or shoved into pants while they pick up another and do it all over again.

Against larger they had Yell and bawl, taake a bite out of them (which could heal them by D3) head butt which did other damage.

Against individual big things like monsters, chaos spawn, or most chariots, or against units of smaller things the Giant rocks! But he has some issues of his own.

1st is fall down. If they go over a fence or wall, if they do the stomping big, if they loose combat they must test to see if they stay on their not so nimble feet. I forget what they test on, but they get a 1 they fall over. Roll for a random direction and there they fall (causing damage on anything they fall on takes S6 hits from its girth (frankly I am surprised others don't have to do this considering how many other monsters of monsterous size there are if you get my drift).Once on the ground they have WS to hold enemies back but that is it.

When dealing with Monstrous units, I can see issues. Most of the options they had there seemed to be single target so they probably need some other stuff to make it survive a group of trolls or ogres.

ANd as an unarmored large target, do what Muldoon said in Jurassic Park and Shoot her! Most shots will need 6 on the wounds, but it should be enough.


This said, it has been a mainstay and a largly unchanged one at that for a reason. Add marks of chaos which no doubt will add effects like they do with Spawn, this should add to the killing potential. So have fun, get a few, and smash your way to victory.




Chaos Warshrine
They came out in 7th ed, and got a model in 8th, however much like Spawn and Forsaken, I suspect there will be plenty of customzaton for these guys to go with which patron the go with. I going to use the image of Glutos from the Hedonists of Slannesh for the image as how could I not use him!

Frankly I forget all they did, but I do beleive they had a bound spell that allowed them to do give units perks off the Eye of the Gods. It will be interestng to see what they do to be support as they are not so much fighters (though they can hold their own in combat) but as support that increases the potency of their allies.




Vortex Beast
This is a big guy. While decent statss, poison attacks, some normal number of attacks alongside D6 random ones would make this guy good in close combat, you are using him as an artillery peace. THey have a boound spell that targets an enemy unit and rolling a D6 ca cause damage in a variety of ways. SOmetimes causing a bunch of weak atacks, hitting all of them with stronger ones, reducing a pair of stats for the rest f the game, and even causing damage and then summoning a CHaos Spawn that will be in base to base combat with them in the next phase. I can see this guy beng used to tear hoard armies appart, but aalso crushing more heavily armored. foes. However its the alternative you could build ths kit into that is good for the heavy hiters.

As for defences, good solid toughness for an average monster, maybe a 4+ armor and regeneraton. So kill i with fire and high strength attacks.

And my Guy Bubba.


Slaughter Brute: Big, red, and angry. Slaughter brutes are captures and compelled to serve a chaos general by shoving enchanted swords in their back (and should that charecter die they unleash havock on the first thing they see). WHat they lack in attacks, they make up for in strength and tenacity and will be used to take on more heavily armored eleite units AND other monsters. This is a brawler, no crowd controling for him. THis has to be Khorn's favorite beast.

In melee, I would probly try to overwhelm it with attacks and high strength one if I could. At range, same with every other monster.



Dragon Ogre: They sold their souls for immortality, and now serve the dark gods as their heavy shock troops. ANd if they get hit by lightning spells, they get frenzy. Maybe wounds healed. These will be expensive, so don't see moe than a unit of three. But with lots of attacks, high strength, WS, number of attacks, fear, Immune to Psychology, lots of wounds mean they hit hard and take hits. Add 2 hand wepaon, halberd, or Great weapon options, and we havee a living wepaon of terror.

THe main weakness i see in them is their like 60 points a pop they had in previous edditionss, and as we'll see in the Skull Crushers...thay may not be enough.

But like most big things, I will say shoot, shoot, and shoot some more. THe samess should be 4 or 5, and while the toughness will stop many an attack from wounding...mass of attacks are a lovley thing to behold.

Shagoth: Many a reptile don't stop growing till they die. This is one of them. They get bigger and stronger, and their stats have been shown case already so I don't have to speculate at all too much save for what different things might mean. But it has all the things that make the Dragon Ogres Great, just in a bigger package.




Chaos Hell Cannon: One of the origional unit killers of old. Like a war machine, it can have its ups and downs with a misfire causing a crewman to die by being eaten alive, the machine to just spew daemonic ichore, or breaks its binds and rushes at the enemy, forgoing range attacks alltogeather...what?

Yeah, this is a weapon made by the Chaos Dwarves, used by the Chaos Dwarves, and feilded by Warriors of Chaos in exchange for hefty price of a lot of slaves and other unatural things from the chaos wastes. The crew being dwarves, an evil and twisted kind of dwarves none the less, they are not giving ground. The machine itselfi more or less a monster and the crew treated more like its handlers. Too bad the Total War games havn't done this yet, but oh well. In any case, one of the few range optons, of couse it has a way to deal with things that get too close. But what about the range attack? Its more or less a stone thrower that has S5(10) magical attacks using a large template that cause panic if it wounds just one guy. Its a nightmare to face but a dream to field. That said there are some ways to deal with it.

Kill the crew. Depending how crew rules work, kill them and it will go feral and move in random frenzied movements.
Your own high strength attacks. Guns are nice. So are spell, although I think it might have a ward save and maybe magic resistance.

Hope they misfire as one of the options is all wizards (sadly yours as well) take a wound and have to save now. Its a monster, and it should be treated as such. And it will be a prize in any CHaos Lord's army.



Skull Crushers: They came in around the same time as the Hellstriders, and boy howdy they hit hard. Lances, hand weapons maybe even enscroled weapons. These Chaos Knights are so dedicated to the Blood God that they are gifted with Juggernaughts of Khorn: Metal Hell Rhynos  blow, 3 wounds, magic resistance, give off +3 armor instead of the normal +2 for barding, have magical attacks and a 2ward savve. I think even killing blow but that might be too much Oh, they they hit harder on the charge. They may not come in big units, but if you face them: tarpit, best anti armor options you have, and and because they are Frenzied, bait and lead them away from anything important. Not much else to say. Warriors of CHaos is a Heavy Metal Album, the Army and these guys bring the Death Metal.




Offline Rowsdower

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2023, 12:36:09 PM »
My 2 cents on the Slaanesh chariot thing
It was a very specific kit which couldn't be used for the other 3 Chaos gods and Painting it looked to be a nightmare
Only buy it if you're working on an army with that theme

Offline SaintofM

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2023, 06:17:07 AM »
My 2 cents on the Slaanesh chariot thing
It was a very specific kit which couldn't be used for the other 3 Chaos gods and Painting it looked to be a nightmare
Only buy it if you're working on an army with that theme

I used this as an example despite there being an official kit that could work with any mostly because this seemed to fit a theme. If I were to play chaos (currently have 1000 odd points in a Tzeentch build for Aos) I wonder what a good one for Tzeentch would be. I can see a corps cart from the Vampire armies or even a Screaming Bell for Nurgle. What about Khorne?

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2023, 04:47:49 PM »
Khorne ... skulls for the blood God!  Or maybe a huge cauldron of blood?
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Offline SaintofM

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2023, 10:25:24 AM »
Ok, so it seems we're going to get some new rules on how things work in the new setting, but maybe we'll know more in how to pick armies. So let us look at some potential warlords leading them. Also trying to get images from the official website is a pain in a half as they don't seem to show up, so here we go

Remember how I said a basic Warrior Of Chaos is essentially just a point or two short of some characters in any other army? Well once you get here with Exalted Chapions and Chaos Lords you are practically a monster. Literally, Heroes and Lords have the same strength of say a manticore or griffon, and yeah a few points higher than normal. Add any enemy champions and characters slain in a challenge, or gotten finishing blow on a monster with Eyes of the Gods and this can go further.

Both have Chaos Armor, can take a shield, and have the weapon options for an extra handweapon, halberd, great weapon, and flails in older editions. I can also assume that Hero level will get 50 points and 100 points for lords when it comes to magic items, and another 25 to 50 for gifts of chaos: A different list that may also include different magic items. Many of these will be mark specific, but plenty for any mark of chaos.

I can see them having travel options on foot, a barded Chaos Steed, a Chaos Chariot, a Gorebeast Chariot, a several Daemonic Mounts, and Manticores. Lords can also be on a two headed Chaos Dragon. I also have to wonder if there are other things that will be added that came in during the End Times and Age of Sigmar.

Like Warriors of Chaos, they get in Close Combat they tend to win, but that doesn't make them impossible. You just need to negate their armor, maybe use a few spells to weaken them, and attack. Remember that Manticors and Dragons are Large Targets so most things will be able to see and hit them. Also kit up to meet them if you do. Daemon Slayers, your time has come.



Chaos Steeds we mentioned previously, so will force on the Daemonic mount for now. The one for anyone is a monstrous beast that looks like a large horse, but being daemons that can be anything you wish I suspect. They normally have the same stats of a Pegesus, and have magical attacks, fear, and gives their rider a 5+ ward Save. So they hit hard and can take a hit. Not bad or 50 points in previous editions. I can see the current Chaos Lord riding that roided out lizard as a good option or maybe you can make your own. In addition to the above mentioned bonuses, you have the rest:

If you have a specific Mark of Chaos, you can instead spend the points on something specific to that Mark. Slannesh provides the Seekers, which has one attack with Poison attacks, I think Always Strikes First (does what it says on the tin) and while it is a normal steed size it has fast cavalry with movement 10. WS 3, but Initiative 10  will also make sure it gits an attack in (misses aside). I can see this snake kangaroo perfect for characters that want to get into combat fast, or a caster that wants to maneuver around the tabletop to cast their spells.

Juggernaut of Khorns are from Bob the Bobiest...kidding, kidding, but yeah, Magic Resistant, super armor heavy, +3 to character's armor instead the normal +2 for an armored steed, Firey, and bonus to strength on the charge? Yeah, The I'm the Juggernaut meme fits here. Kill Maim Bun indeed.

Disk of Tzeentch: Flaming attacks ad hover, but its main thing is its ability to fly around, allowing for once again a fast wizard. You do not need to be a wizard to use it, but it seems to be the best one.   ff

 I have to wonder about the next one. For the last 3 editions at least, Nurgle got the Palanquin. A bunch of nurglings carry you to battle. Poison attacks and D6 random attacks. Never had an official mini outside of the Daemons of Nurgle tallyman, but it seemed like a fun idea and Nurglings are ugly cute, and tons of fun. On the other hand the Plauge Drones/Rot Flies might be one for entering combat. Introduced in the End Times, the times we don't talk about, they continue to thrive in AoG. They are a flying cavalry, hit hard


No not mine, but Papa Nurgle is Praised with this one!


I mentioned in the Dar Elfpage, Manticores are just anger with more anger. Charging anything in sight, they are the perfect mount for a chaos lord. A brawler with fly, large taget, terro, a hair trigger temper that makes it have a chance to rampage, and killing blow. Armor and maybe an ability to just skip the Monster reaction check if the rider dies and goes strait to rampaging like its in a Japanese giant monster movie. Not nesssarily the best monster,but its on par with the Griffon in many respects, and its a good enough brawler to deal with most other monsters and eleite units. Killing blow, if they still keep it and if it works like last time, will go through armor like it was nothing and kill the man sized and normal cavalry on a wounding of 6.

Bt we are here for the Chaos Dragon. 2 heads are better than one, and this guy is it. There was a legendary lord that was a haos dragon by itself, the first, and these things are as powerful as a dragon should.It even has 2 beath attacks: a decent S4 flaming one, and a weaker one that goes through several layers of armor.  Dragons are one of the more potent creatures in mythology, and this does not disapoint.. Now if we can see what this guy looks like in this eddition.





CHaos Sorcerers break the rules on wizards being squishy by being built and armored like a normal Chaos Warrior (just with more wounds). THis means they can indeed hold their own in some fights. THis also means they can also take magic armor as well as arcane items Hero level can be level 11 an 2, while he Sorcerer lords can be 3 and 4. The common lores they usualy could do were death, shadows, mtal, and fire. Unlie other amies, the marks of chaos has their own magic as well. Slanneesh will most likly have a bunch of augments, conveyence, hex, with some spels in the close combat phase and maybe shooting. Nurgle will mostly augments, lot more hexes, weak magic missiles. And Tzentch, which I think there will be more bonuses for the magic for them, should have plenty of spells for range attacks and just screw with the enemy. And Khorn has no magic because he hates magic. They can have the same mount options as the previously mentioned charecters (sans Khorn who is off listening to Freak on a leash right now). The spell list feels a little limited because chaos is magic so more should be there, but these are tough guys so will be fun. It will be interesting to see how they work in a magic heavy list.



Finaly there is the Daemon Prince.
Take at least one so on the off chance you have a dark apothiosis, you have on on hand. If they form thi way they have the geat from their previous form, just bumped up stat wise becasue monster charecter. Otherwise a strong Lord, but one that might be overshadowed by ther still orta counterparts. They can take up to 100 items in CHaos Gifts, wings, up 2 four levels of wizard unless they have Khorn markings, and chaos armor.  Computer is slowing down at this time of night, so will fix the grammer in the morning.





« Last Edit: December 22, 2023, 10:43:41 PM by SaintofM »

Offline SaintofM

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2023, 11:03:56 PM »
This one is going to be the MOST speculative, and will be from the video games, Age of Sigmar, and past and present Forge World Models. I can’t remember anything so this is definitely a section that needs more thoughts on, and any area I may have missed.

In general I need to see a unit dedicated to Nurgle and a unit Dedicated to Tzeentch in the same way the Skull Crushers are to Khorn. I haven’t played Warhammer Total War 3, so not sure what they add, but something.

Chaos Bile Trolls: These guys were trolls with the Mark of Nurgle. They had a weaker regeneration but made up for it with poison attacks and maybe a couple other things I forget. They were a gruesome model that a Nurgle Player would be happy to have.

Dread Maw: One part Mongolian Death Worm, one part Worms from Dune, and one part that workm from Empire Strikes Back. They pop out of the ground out of nowhere, have toxic sskin that hursts those that attack, and spits acid at the enemy. Aforge world model I wouldn't mind seeing again.

Skin Wolves: Werewolves. In some legends, you can tell if one is a werewolf by peeling back one's skin to see the fur beneath (with plenty of real world inquisitors doing just that during their witch hunts). Thus like the werewolvves in Late Phases and Van Helsing, they tear themselves free from their human forms. Fast. strong, has fear, and different marks giving them poison attacks, more strength, and more. These frenzied hounds of chaos are everything we want out of chaos, and when the slaughter is done their human forms tear themselves out of the monstrous sacks that were the skin wolves. I like werewolves, they are right behind Dragons and Godzilla in particular when it comes to my favorite monsters and Raging Heroes should not be the only place to get them. Then again, given a werewolf is in the Bloodbowl Vampire kit...

Gigantic Chaos Spawn: Some things start out large before becoming a chaos spawn, and some spawn live so long in their twisted forms they continue to grow and mutate till they reach titantic proportions. Like CHaos SPawn, just bigger with states that show.  More dice in movement and attacks, has terror, and its just hidious. At one point I thought it could work as a jabberslyth. A disgustingly ugly mini that takes the mini out of miniture wargaming.

Gigantic Spine Beast: Would like to see what a regular spine beast looks like. As is its like a mutant Bull Dog that became Kaiju sized. It gts its name from the defensive spikes that grow out of its back. While not as noticeable in art or miniture compared to its ever extending maw (so much so the skin and muscle hasn't cought up growing around it) I can see if this guy coming back looking like a demonic hedghog or porcupine. Fast and strong, with all the marks doing what they do on big stuff.

CHaos Mamoth: Attacks like a giant, but can have a howidah of 10 mauraders armed with axes on chains that act as both range and melee weapons (giving them the length to hit stuff). A big model that was big enough to stomp even monsterous units.

Bigger Giant: I forget their name, but there is an even larger giant, one that its fluff have a dwarf telling a younger one that "You won't hear me say this often, but in this case I am glad they don't make them like they used to." Fun times. The 5 year old in me loves how one of the attacks is desscribed as it gets dizzy looking at the smaller foes and end up puking from this. Also like the Mammoth, can stomp on things that otherwise be too big to stomp.

If there are others you think needed to come back or be added to the list? After all 4k can't have all the forge world fun.



Offline SaintofM

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2024, 09:13:51 PM »
Found this from the Great Book of Grudges Chanel, he is going through all the new unit rosters so far. So Writing this as I am liistening, but enough just in th e first 2 minutes is left my speculations in the dust, lets go there.  Here is the video,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdfrRsoY1W0&t=24s

The Roster
Characters (50% total army)
Chaos Lord, Daemon Prince Exhalate Champion, Sorcerer Lord, Aspiring Champion, Exalted Sorcerer

Core (25% of army)
Chaos Marauder, Marauder Horsman, Chaos  Warriors, Chaos Knights (yeah, with Nate here, this is overkill but will wait to see what the difference between this and Chosen Knights are), Forsaken, and Chaos Hounds.

Special
0-1 Chosen Warriors, 0-1 Chosen Knights, Chaos Chariots, CHaos Spawn, Chaos Trolls, Chaos Ogres, Chimereas, Dragon Ogres.

Rare
Gorebeast Chariot
1 per thousand points Hellcannon
1 per Dragon Ogres Shagoth
1 Per 1000 points Chaos Giant

As of his posting, no War Shrines, no Mutalith Beast, No Skull Crushers, No Hellstriders, No Slaughter Brute. It will be interesting to see them when we see the other armies added in, but for now a moment of Silence.

Marks: Not everything can have marks but most things will. Characters with marks undivided can join different units with different marks, but those dedicated to a specific god cannot choose a unit to join outside of that mark.

CHaos Undivided: Reroll failed anc, fear, adn terror checks
Khorn: Frenzy
Nurgle: Enemies must reroll all 6's. This is going to be interesting as in the past poison (Auto wound, can go strait to armor save() and Killing Blow (allows you to skip armor and regeneration saves) all needed 6's to work. Sometimes you need to roll a 6 to make a save against a foe. So while this sounds like something for dealing with a 1/6 ( 17%) chance of happening, so might be a mix bag
Slannesh: +1 Initiative on the first round of combat, and automatically pass panic tests

Tzeentch: Flaming attacks and Magical Resistance (-1). Wizards also gain +1 to cast if in a unit of 10+.


Special rules

CHaos Armor no longer is a 4+ armor save but provides ward save. It seems chaos warriors are back to Heavy armor so I think roughly 6th ed stats. Chosen have a 6+ ward Saves, charecters have a 5+, daemon prince has a 4+. Not sure how I feel about this as I plan on doing a tzeentch heavy list, but makes them more manageable when dealing with them

Enscrolled Weapon: We might see more of these, but it nows adds +1 to the Armor Piercing  -1 and Magical Attacks.

Gaze of the Dark Guards: Can do this in the Strategy Phase. Roll a single D6 and see what your character gets one f the following (Max 10)
1. Stupidity. Aldread has this, every time they roll on this they get a stackable -1 to LD.
2. +2 Initiative for a turn
3. +1 T for a turn
4. +1 WS for the rest of the game.
5. +1 Attack for the rest of the game
6. +1 S and LD for the rest of the game

Two units he brought up in more detail were chosen knights and and Chaos Warhound Tender.

CHaos Knights are how we think of them now, 36 points, Hand Weapon and Chaos Armor and shield on a Barded steed. Close Order, Counter Charge, all their weapons have Enscrolled Weapons, stubborn and swift stride. They have a rule called First Charge so that looks fun.
They can have full plate armor and lances which also get the enscrolled weapon rule, and the marks.

The Warhound Handler is a new charecter is 15 points a pop, WS 5 but rest seems Warriors stats for everythign else but their singular attack.
ALways Chaos Undivided, Vanguard, Mov THrough Cover, Loner, Hand weapon and heavy armor but can take a whip or extra hand weapon. I guess he's here to make the beasties more managablle.
His handler rules allows them to join warhounds, cannot unit leave its unit, and friendly chaos warhounds around can use its LD like he was the general.

Spells: Undiveded get a Hex (Windss of Chaos) that reduces an enemy within 21" movement.

Nurgle gets Fleshy Abundence which the caster and their unit gets+1 toughness throughout the game. This fits their tanky build
Slannesh Gets  a Hex that makes an enemy within 12" alwys strike last which fits their manic got be fast movements.
Tzeentch gets Blue FIrees which is a magic missile, D6+3 hits S4 -3 AP, FLaming.

Need an apprpriate mark for the spells you need to get this spells.

The pros of cons
Lots of strong melee, and plenty of diversity of this. Want an anvil army? Nurgle. Want a hammer unit? Khorn? Want to go fast? Slannesh. Want to be magic heavy? Tzeentch.
Smaller Armies so no Curse of the Greenskin here.
Plenty of strong charecters to pick.

Cons: Several iconic units, including ones that came in in 8th ed, are no longer here. Spells seem lacking in numbers, so I have to wait and see what the spells are like in general before I gripe about that. And Limited range attackers.

Thoughts so far?

Offline SaintofM

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2024, 03:08:16 AM »
Just got the books. So lets see what I got wrong.
Charecter
You can have a single Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince.
0-1 Exalted Champion or Chaos Lord per 1000 points
And as many Aspiring Champions and Exalted Sorcerers you have points for.

As for core
 No limit on how many  Chaos Warriors, Marauders, Forsaken, Knights, Marauder Horsman, and Chaos Hounds you can have or must have. So if you want an all-cavalry army, you can do it.

Special.

You are limited to up to one Chosen Warriors and Up to 1 Chosen Knights.

Chaos Spawn, rolls, Chariots, Dragon Ogres, and ogres no limitations. Dragon Ogres, Shagoths, and Giants are in the beastmen kit, so no marks allowed.

Rare: No limits on Gorebeast chariots.
Hellcannons aare limited to 1 per 1000 (and considering they were a what were dubbed a unit killer int he old days, it makes sense).
You can have 1 Dragon Ogre Shagoth per unit of Dragon Ogres
ANd one giant per 1000 points.

Allies consist of Beastmen Bray Herds, an uneasy alliance with Orcs and Goblins, and suspicious with Tomb Kings.

Before I get to rules, Things that are missing:
Chaos Warshrines. Pitty as I had some kitbashing ideas for Nurgle, and still thinking of what to do for Tzeentch.
Mutalith Vortex Beast: Maybe we can get it later but this was a fun kt to put togeather and I like to use it for more than AoS or potentialy Traitor Leagions.
Slaughter Brute: Also going to miss as a giant brute seemed super appropriate for the army. Guess, my Chaos Lord's quest for more pets will have to wait.
Hellstriders: Nope, not here.
Skull Crushers: Also not here.
Mark Apprpriate CHaos Steeds: Also gone. Maybe when they give us special charecters.


Rules: Assume unless I say otherwise they all have these rules. Marks being the big exception as they have one or one of the others.

On the mark with most of the marks.
Nurgle I oopsed. Its only to Hit Rolls of 6 it rerolls. It can still suffer a wounding roll of 6, and all the Killing Blows Monster Slayer, Cleaving Blows, and Armor Bane that comes with it. Not as impressive, or as annoying as I feared/hoped but still can prevent someone getting poison attacks off.

Chaos Armor: Gives a Ward Save based on unit types. Chosen get 6+, mortal charecters a 5+, and the Prince gets 4+.

Enscrolled Weapons count as Magical and improve Armor Pericing by -1 if and only IF you are weilding a normal hand weapon and just one of them. Have 2? A Flail? A Great Weapon? Lance? Magic Weapon? No enscrolling for you! DE's Murderous Prowess and WoC's this? I am starting to see a theme and not liking it.

Gaze of Gods: on the money.

Lore of Chaos: 4 to choose from depending on mark.

Winds of Chaos: Hex:, 21" range and can cast at 7+ or 9+ difficulty. THe former makes the unit suffer -1 to movement *min 1) and the latter its -2 instead. So, want to make a unit easier to run down, here's your spell.

Khorn: GET OFF MY LAWN

SlAnnesh: Acquiescence is a hex of 6+ to cast, so super easy to cast, and a range of 12. Until the end of the combat phase, the target unit is subset to Strike Last special rule (canceling out strike first and making sure an already speedy mark has a chance to get even speeder on them).

Nurgle has Fleshy Abundance, a enchantment that targets self and cats on a 7+. The remains in play spell grants the caster and the unit they have joined +1 toughness. So the tanks get tankier.

Tzeentch has Blue Fire with is a 18" range magic missile of a 9+ to cast (normally moderate to hard, but a level 2 in a unit of 10 with this mark gets +3 to cast so there is that)> Target gets D6+3 S4 its at AO-2 and flaming.

When it comes to Chaos Lords (nearly 200 pints) Exhalted CHampions (over 100) and Aspiring Champions (About 20 points cheaper than an empire general) they are pretty tough.

CHaos Lords are almost on par with a dragon, with the same Strength and toughness as a Manticor, 4 wounds, Initiative 6 and 5 attacks. At LD 9, they have a good reach in their comand, and WS 7 means they are hitting most things on 7.

Exalted Champions are a point less in WS, Toughness Wound Count attack, Initiative, attacks, and LD but still lordly by most other army's statannd and still hits like a mac truck.

By Contrast Aspiring Champions are almost normal human by comparison.

They all start with hand weapons, with he Lord having plate armor and the other two having heavy.

All can take an extra hand weapon, flail, great weapon, halberd or if riding an appropriate mount, a Lance. May take shields. May take one of the other marks for 10 points. Can have up to 50 points in girft of chaos, and between 50 and 100 points in magic items depending which character yu are. Overall, these things are meant to be overkill. WIll go over the gifts and magic items later, but there are some fun ones.

Both CHarecter champions can become battle standard bearers.

All in all, not bad.

Daemon Prince: Quesion should Tim Curry sngign Toic Love come out of a Prince of Slannesh or a Prince of Nurgle? Either waay, this ligt armor (can be replaced with heavy armor) wearing, towering monstrosity is what happens when a Faustian deal with chaos goes right for the champion. Slightly stronger a and faster than a chaos lord, they have alot of the same stats as one.  Tey can even be wizards that know battle magic, daemonology, and dark magic. This is also probably one of the few warp spawned creatures you'll see in game, ut they ome wth 5+ reen, chaos armor, fear, unbreaable, unstable, lore of chaos and so on.

Mounts:
All mortal Character's can rid Chaos Steed have S4 attacks, First Charge and Seft Stride
Everyone can ride  Daemonic mounts save for Aspiring CHamion. They have fear, Magical Attacks, the same mark as the rider, a stomp attack, swift stride, grant the rider an extra wound, and they alone get Armor bane 1;

Al Can rideChariots (will get into that when I cover special units).

Chaos Lords, Exalted Champions, and Aspiring Champions can ride Gorebeast chariots.
Chaos Lords and Sorcerer Lords can take Manticors and Chaos Dragons as mounts. So goodby hero level characters on big monsters.

The Manticore is the same in Dark Elves, so look there. Dragons on the other hand are dragons with all that applies. they have a pair of breath attacks. You can't do both at the same time, but it gives you options. Fark Fire of Chaos is S4 -1AP breath attack that is flaming and magical.

Fumes of Contagion is S2, Magical, and allows no armor saves. You can still get Wards and Regeneration as normal.

Either way, should be fun. There already is a manticore option, so either wait for  a model to come out, or kit bash one of the available ones. I am surprised it dosn't have terror, and that is disapointing as its a GIANT FRICKEN DEVIL! I will be using one of these guys as a pit fiend in D&D level of crap yourself. SO while there are plenty to love, plenty to say: Um, no.

 
Sorcerers are very much: Nearly 200 points and coast the price of a EMpire General price. Stronger and tougher than normal wizards, they come with armor (heavy for the lrod and light for the Exhalted) THey get the same lores as the Prince, tart off as Level three or level 1 and can be upgraded. CaCan have any of the marks save Khorn.

I am not sure how I feel them all not having heavy armor, but I can see the Exhalted Sorcerer starting off as a Shaman that gets more and more resposnsabilites as time goes on.

Overall, am getting a feeling they don't want this army to be overkill, and when we get into core, it seems some things are back to 6Th Edition stats. That said, alot of these are still pretty awsome.

Will miss the chance to turn into a prince, but glad we lost the risk of turning into a spawn.

Thoughts?

Offline SaintofM

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2024, 04:54:41 AM »
Time for the core units

Chaos Warriors: They basically have the same sats of an aspiring champion save for one less wound and 2 less attacks. I think this is basically 6th eddition build. THey are still potent and base can out do any normal human with hand weapon and heavy armor.

However they can ake great weapons, an extra hand weapon, or a great weapon. This takes away their Inscrolled Weapons rule. They can take a shield regardless fr an extra point, so even if they have halberds or great weapons they have some range defense. They can take any of the marks for 2 points each, bring a base Warrior up to 15 points.  And they can takke a magic standard fo 50, and a Champion can take 25 points.

I like some stuff, still ify about the limitations o f Enscrolled weapons. I think not having plate armor from the get go means they are more manageable. That said, can't wait to see what they look on the table.

Forsaken: Thhey are not frenzied, but tey still have D3 attacks. THeir initiative is now normal human. THey are still like 19 points, but unless someone can tell me otherwse it looks like o don't have to pay for a different mark. 

As is tey are imune to psycolog, stuborn, open order, loner, impetuous, have furiosns charge, chaos armor of 5+ (which is on par with what charecters have), and Rampant mutation.

THis last rule rolls ona  D6 and and see what the gods have given them this minute. A unit in close combat has a third chance to have poisoned attacks, a third chance of AP of -2, and a third chance of getting Killing blow. Take a mark, and they can hate all enemies (Khorn), have fear (nurgle) Swift Stride (Slannesh), are Magic Resistance (-3) if you are the god I am mostly focusing on: Tzeentch.

I will have to show some of the ones I made kit bashing spare bits with Mauraders.

Knights: Same stats and equipment of of CHaos Warriors save the only equipment they can add is a lance and they come with a Sheid. They are on chaos steeds, and much like Warriors, can kick alot of ass as is. TO make things even better, they have first charge, disrupting enemy ranks if they get the charge in.

 I am half surprised no one has done one o look like Frank Frezzetta's Death Dealer as clearly we know where the inspiration comes from.



Mauraders: COnan the Barbarians' angry cousin. A point higher than a normal Empire State Trooper, they have alot o the same stats save for S 4 and LD of 6. They can be LD 7 in they have a Marauder chieftain.

They can have light armor and shields. They may take great weapons or flails, though Great Weapons is something that is going to be a kit bash. THey can take any of the other marks for a point each,. They are close order, have shield wall (so once a game they can get  to give choose to give ground) and Warband which gives them the old Skaven rules of they get an LD bonus based on their Rank Bonus so long as they are not being flanked.

Alot of things to like. Now if you want to forgo the perks of Sheildwall, you can for free make one unit a group of skirmishers or open order. Not sure why outside of needing a skirmish screen or more maneuverability as they can't just move through cover.

Overall, I like.

Maurader Horsemen; Fast Cavalry units, with Fire and Flee, Open Order, Swift Stride and Warband, and warband (the latter I don't know why as they don't get rank bonuses).

They have light armor standard. They can take Cavalry Spears, Throwing Spears, or Flails (the first 2 being Free). They make take Javelins or Throwing axes for a point. What's the difference between throwing spears and javelins? I Dunno. Maybe its so they can take both a spear they can stabby stab and a spear they can chuck.

They can take shields, and any of the different marks.

Overall my thoughts on them being harassers and taking on weaker units still holds true.

Finaly Warhounds. Same as we know an love. Move Though cover, swift stride, loner, open order. They can be can be vanguards for a heft 5 points, but for a point they can take poison and for another point get armored Hide (1) effectively giving them light armor. I still think the poison attacks are great and the Hide if you need points to waste.

THe newest thing is the Warhound Handler which is a unit champion,. THey get the same rules as the puppers but at -2 speed, have vanguard build in, and can either take a second hand weapon of a whip for free. Their Handler rule. For the price of a chaos warrior with a fancy mark of chaos you get someone with the build and armor of a chaos warrior

I like the extra LD, but it feels like he takes away from some of the speed of the unit. Not sure how I feel.

Offline shavixmir

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2024, 06:51:01 AM »
Dragon ogres you can now take a unit of 1.
Not exactly sure what they do, but I reason they can side a small unit of
Chaos warriors quite nicely.
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2024, 10:53:53 AM »
Thats interesting. Also hi Shav!
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2024, 10:16:43 PM »
Shav is back, oh my! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2024, 12:26:16 PM »
Helloooooo…

Aye!

And since my dwarfs have disappeared… I’m making a warriors of chaos army for the bash.
Indeed. All the models I need, I have (except 3 chaos hounds… don’t know what the hell happened to them).

And I will be playing 3 dragon ogres as single models. But don’t tell anyone…
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Offline oak_prince

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2024, 04:35:25 AM »
I'm not super happy with the chaos warriors overall after three games.

Chaos warriors themselves were hit hard with the nerfbat. I felt really lucky I found several upgrade packs of metal halberds for cheap last year but they feel like a sidegrade at best now since you lose the enscorcelled blade rule.

I was impressed with how well the marauders did - the shieldwall rule rule was really good for eating a charge of Bretonnian knights and the Mark of Nurgle made them even more tank-y. Dragon ogres were my other golden boys, they wrecked havoc against cavalry and other monsters. Marauder horsemen were fun too, mine were rocking both the spears and throwing javelins.

They took away some of the units associated with specific gods like bloodcrushers and the disk of tzeentch. IMO if they wanted to encourage more secular/undivided themes they should have let undivided warriors/knights buy chaos armor for cheap. And made the undivided signature spell decent.
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2024, 06:02:08 AM »
My guess would be that the army specific book will have each of the god variants as alternative armies, including bringing back the juggernauts.
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Offline SaintofM

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2024, 05:46:07 AM »
Before I get into my thoughts on the specific units in the special, yeah, I think they got hit hard by the nurf gun. The Daemon Prince dosn't feel as grand, and overall alot of armies feel weaker. There are some marked improvements, for sure, but much lik the loss of the Huicanium and the Luminesk in Empire, the missing warsrhines, Chaos Specific mounts, and chaos specific units leave much to be desired. If nothing else for added variety. I hope by the time the PDF armies get books they will have these options, but until then...this is an army that should feel like you are facing a wrecking ball.

As for Special

Chosen Warriors of CHaos and Chosen knights fee like 6th ed rules, so part of me is ok with this. The thing that annoys me is asdie from the slihtly better stats, can take the drilled rule, and can upgrade their armor to full plate, as well as having a 6+ ward save...they don't feel so special compared to regular knights and warriors. You can only take one of each, so I am mixed mined here. On one hand this should mark them off as the super elite, but again they don't feel that special. And it also feels too limiting. ANyone feel the same or different?

Chaos Chariots: Not sure why they couldn't be core. Still, heavy chariots doing what heavy chariots do best. Also good mount for a lord.

Chaos Spawn: A marked improvment, and one that makes it closer to the total war games when it comes to how good they could potentialy be.
Before they were a single model rare choice, and you could only take so many. Most of the states were not so good either. Alot of players took the because they had points to spare or just in case the Eye of the Gods turned  champion or Charecter into one, or if The vortex beast summoned one. Now they have uses.

A little cheaper than before, they can be taken in units of 1 to 4. The marks also greatly improve what they can do. Khorn gives them Killing Blow, Slannesh makes them Strike First, Nurgle has Poison attacks, and Tzeentch lets them have flaming magical attacks. Knorn and Slannesh seem to be the most useful to me, but I plan on doing a largly Tzeentch heavy list. Maybe with some greenstuff I can do a DOOM Pinky for a Khron Spawn. Overal, I like.

Chaos Trolls: I like they can take 2 hand weapons and great weapons, and that Troll Vomit is an extra attack instead of replace normal attacks with this option. Miss Mutant Regeneration, but aside from Regen taken don a peg, not much to hate. A good unit of 3 to 6 in most games, or a unit of 9 in larger.

Chaos Ogres.: Basically Ogre Bulls that can take heavy armor, mark of chaos, and great weapons. Not necessarily the best units, but one that doesn't need much modifications from base Ogre Glutton and Iron gut kits. They have the ogre charge which gives their impact hits Armor Piercing, and they hit pretty hard. Wish they could take plate armor like in the old days, and have Iron Gut LD but otherwise I love em and think they do just fine. A unit of 6 or 9 with 2 hand weapon or a great weapon should tear enemy units appart with ease.

Dragon Ogres: They are in the Beastmen Book, but about as good as you remember. Armor of 4 up, high strength, can take 2 hand weapons, great weapons, or halberds, and they can even take some magic items adn gifts of chaos for their champion. I think they nurfed the toughness a little bit, and they are pricy enough that even in big games you won't see unit bigger than three. That said, they allo you to take Shagoth,  and they still hit like a Mac Truck on a rampage.

Chimera: My stance that they are too OP for Special and need to be a rare slot still stands, you cannot change my mind.




Offline Warlord

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2024, 12:52:15 PM »
See the reduction in overall power of armies is appropriate for a full edition reset.
It happened in 6th edition, and its part of what made it good...

What is your take on the Shaggoth?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2024, 01:02:33 PM by Warlord »
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline SaintofM

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2024, 11:47:36 PM »
See the reduction in overall power of armies is appropriate for a full edition reset.
It happened in 6th edition, and its part of what made it good...

What is your take on the Shaggoth?

I'll probably get into it more when I cover the rare choice, but for now I like it. 4+ armor, options for 2 hand weapons or great weapons (though it generally comes with a big ol' ax). Lots of attacks, immune to psychology, lots of options for anti armor or anti swarm. The storm call is interesting. While it can hurt friendly units, if it hits dragon ogres, it makes them go fasters, hit with more attacks. Their Quickening ability for got about it, also gives it advantage against shooting phase magic spells, so maybe something for a anti magic list. Overall no problem, wish to see if they make a model of the the Charecter vertion of this. THis I think is a good unit.

Offline shavixmir

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2024, 05:08:24 AM »
The chosen knights also have counter-charge.
That’s the only reason I might add them.

In March I’ll be playing my first game in this new edition, and I’m going to try the same style of play I did when I used to play Empire and Brets. See if I can get it rolling. And no special knights in that list (just too many points for the role they’ll be playing).
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2024, 10:50:24 AM »
I think a Chaos army that feels like a Horde, with a few unstoppable units scattered through is a more interesting army than just a few super elite units and not much else.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline SaintofM

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Re: Warriors of Chaos New Army Thread.
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2024, 11:51:11 PM »
Rare Units

More on the Shagoth: It can take upgrades from the magic items and mutations from the Beastman list including Slug Skn (Mark of Nurgle effectively), Muscular Monstosity (+1 Strength), Many Limbed Fiend (extra attack, but can only be made with regular hand weapon), Gore Tusks (increase the AP by -1) and more.  Still good for its price.

The Giant Still loe this dumb lug. Like the SHagoth, its out of the BEastman army so no mark other than Undivided unfortunately. But you could imagine if it could. It counts  light armor which can be upgraded to having heavy, and upgraded to a weak 6+ regeneration  so some protection outside of being tough. Its unbreakable, so no worries about it falling down save for when it dies (at which point it might land on the enemies, potentially taking a few with it, or it could land on your own). D6 stomp attacks also mean its its bound to get a few kills in.

As for the Giant attacks: It has two man ones outside of stomping and falling over its not so nimble feet.

The “Giant attacks is on a D6, and see what happens. There is no differentiating sizes anymore, so this is both adds some much needed changes as I felt Giants could be overwhelemed in the old rules with monsterous units like ogres or trolls.
 THe Giant attacks in question?

1:Headbutt: Pick an enemy model in base contact of the giant, and make it suffer D3+1 wounds that ignore armor and regeneration, leaving only Ward Saves. This only attacks a single model, but it auto hits, and as you “nominate” a model in base contact, this can include champions and heroes. This means if say you are facing a big bad chaos lord with all the bells and whistle, you could potentially take him out. I also have a couple images in my head with this: One, an epic duel between a lord on a monster such as a Dragon, Griffon, Manticore, or more and the giant smashes its head into it as it wrestles for dominance. The other just makes me smile as it gets on its knees and smashes its head into a footman on the ground (or picks up a knight and smashes it on its head like a beer can).

2. Belly Flop: I love this game! Snorlax uses Body Slam; its super effective (and now I have an idea for a chaos giant). Place a small template over the unit (center over the center of the unit), andanything underneath risks taking a hit at the giant’s strength (6) with – 2AP. I have images of it in swim trunks doing a canon ball to a unit crossing a river, and I love this game so much!

3-4. Swing With Club: This is where the WS 3 comes in as it make D6+1 Random attacks. Its average WS, hitting most things on 4’s as I interpret it, BUT its at S+1 (so S7) -2AP hits. That Night Goblin on a Squig looks offly like a golfball at that hight.
5. Thump With Club: Remember what I said about that Golf Ball? Well, now its making a hole in one! Nominate an enemy model in the fighting rank, and it takes a S+4(10) -4AP with with D6 Muliple wounds. This can potentially kill a monster, character riding a monster or chariot, and definatly on foot. The Dice gods can still say not today to the Gods of Death, but the potential is still epic (or epicly hilarious).
6: Jump Up and down: Its almost like a second Somp. The unit suffers D6+1 hits that ignore armor at the giant’s strength (ward and regen again). You all look like grapes, and it wants some blood red wine!

THe other is Pick up and…Attack. Its an Initiative test that only be done on normal and heavy infantry units. If passed, they missed being eaten, squished, or shoved down its pants. On the other hand, if it failed, say something with low initative like an Orc or Dwarf, it counts as a casualty. The Giant rolls another D6. 1-3, it forgets what it was doing and stops. On a 4+, the giant does this all over again. The giant keeps doing this until it forgets or the unit is destroyed. It may take a while as its one thing at a time, but this could be a good way to take care of champions.

The giant was already a spectacular unit to beguine with, and while I can complaie about the lack of marks all day, it is a marked improvement on a unit that was already pretty good.

Gorebeast Chariot: It’s a chariot, but this time pulled by a monstrous Gorbeast (a cross between a Gorilla and a Rhino, and then given all the steroids). I am not sure why they were not given their own unit such as the Razorgor, but it’s a chariot. It hits hard, and has all the strength and weaknesses of a chariot. Think it could be a Special unit all things considered, but its still a good unit.

Hellcannons: Still Awesome. For those coming in from the Total War Games, this is what we call a Unit killer. It’s a Monster and a Stone Thrower in one. The Cannon is a war machine with a very angry daemon stuck in it curtesy of the Chaos Dwarves. Like most stone throwers, min range 12”, max range, probably the next game. Unlike most stone throwers, thishits hard. The small teplate does S5 -2 AP (S10 -5AP) hits, that immediately cause panic tests to anything that taes wounds from this. This even works on monsterous units as they all have D3 multiple wounds. So if nothing else, that’s going to be a lot of damage about to be done.

If you do get in combat, good luck. Its not the 3 handlerss you have to worry about, and they are less crew and more lion tamers. Armor Bane 1, Escrolled weapons 4+ armor saves, D6 Impact hits mmune to psycology, and Terror. Oh, and like the giant: Unbreakable.

Because its more monster than war machine, it has its downsides of Terror, its regeneration, which is new but weak at 6+, and Warp Spawn can take that away with a good magic attack.

The biggest is its Cage furry. It has to pass an LD test at the Start of Turn subphase. The handlers are Dorfs, so LD 9, no problems there. On the other hand, If it fails you immediately roll on its misfire chart.

1: Free at Last!: The daemon has had it, and it breaks free. Every unit, friend and foe within 3D6 Inches (so 3 to 3 feet), suffer D6 S5 -1AP hits. The cannon is removed from play as a casualty.
2-4: Chomp: Its always hungry for souls and always angry, but today its particularly hangry. Remove one of the Chaos Dwarf Handlers as they get sucked into the cannon and becomes the next cannonball.
6. BLOOD!: It breaks the chains holding it still and moves forward 3D6 inches as if it was using random movement in the compulsory movement phase.

Worse case scenario, you do major damage to both you and the enemy as it has a nuclear meltdown. Most of the time you risk loosing the only things holding it back. But rarly it charges forward and decide it doesn’t want to Pew Pew but to Nom Nom. Good thing it has impact hits then.

Either way, it’s a fun unit. You can only hav one per 1000 points, but that’s more than fair in most games.


Honerable Mentions:

War shrine: You shall be missed. I was also wondering how they would work it in the game. Could undivided give champions the Eye of the Gods? Mark of Khorn make friendly units never loose frenzy? Mark of Nurgle increase the Reroll Closecombat hits of 6 to that of 5s as well? Mark of Slannesh give everyone Strike First or Elvin Reflexes? Tzeentch a ward save or increase the Magic Resistance/Spellcasting ability by 1.

Unique Units to each Mark: Be nice if we had something like Khorn and Slannesh had in 8th eddition, Nurgle Got in the [We don't Talk about End Times to the tune of We don't Talk about Bruno], or Tzeentch in Total War 3.  Maybe when the daemon list comes out.

Next up will be the blessings and magic items.