Thanks to both of you. Those are not my minies, i just found some on a google search (if mine I usually say so on say on my Dark Elf Pages). That said I do have a Mutalith Vortex Beast to show off...eventually. Might make some forsaken with some of the bits i have.
Until then the special. Again, speculation up to the high heavens.
Chosen of Chaos: Yeah spoilers but: You need to negate their armor or have range attacks that eat up their armor like my fat self does a large bucket of popcorn. They are the best of the best, the most elite of them. Probably some points in WS and other stats higher than normal (insert laughter here) Chaos Warriors, but 7th and 8th edition also gave them the roll on the Eye of the Gods chart (rerolling the ganna be turned into a spawn and Gods Ignoring you scores) then applying that role to the unit's states for the rest of the game. THey could have Great Weapons, Sword and Board, sword and Board and or halberds and the marks. Probably going to start in the mid 20's to ear 30's point wise. I can see some of the Age of Sigmar units from the different dedicated fractiosn of the dark gods used here. I would definitly use the Death Guard and World Eater Models from 40k here if not in the CHarecter options (I wouldn't even need to mode them that much). On and they can take more expensive magic banners, so if they bring back a few from 8th eddition I can see Terror and Armor Piring being used here, if not on Chaos Knights. Speaking of Which...
CHaos Knights: 40 odd points a peice if I had to guess, simply because they will be overkill. They have fear, chaos armor, shields, and barding on a horse that has a Maurader's WS. They have normal hand weapons, Lances, or Enscrolled weapons; the latter gives them a constant +1 strength and magical attacks (effectively giveing the entire unit Swords of Strength from previous edditions). A Unit f 10 is going to be enough for most battles, and anything bigger will be the definition of a Death Star unit: A unit that will be a main unit that will win you great victories, but if you exploit its weaknesses it will go down (say like a super destructive battle station vs a spunky young farm kid).
They are going to be super armored, so you will need war machines. You will need magic that can get through armor. Guns may work on Brettonian and Elf Cavalry, but we are talking about guys in 1+ armor the whole time, so unless I get corrected on the armor in the next few posts, I am assuming a handgun will bring them back up to a AS of 3+. So yeah, most attacks will not go through this. That said, tarpits are always an option, for both these guys and the Chosen. On the top of my head, I know Vampire Count Zombies and EMpire Flagalents were the main targpit units in the game as the former didn't run away and you could just keep spamming raise dead to make more of them, while the latter had unbreakable with out the crumbling action of being undead. Have a healing wizard on them and you two can keep the knights there forever and ever and ever...or at least until the final turn or the store is about to close.
As cavalry, they will have large flanks. THere will also be monsters that are made for this. I forget if Killing blow affected cavalry units, but it would be a good choice to use if so.
Gorebeast CHariot: You know, I am surpsires gorebeasts were not a unit choice. I mean think about it: You are going to make either a normal chariot or a gorebeast chariot, so they should have been their own unit. Otherside, I guess you could always use them as Chaos Spawn or Daemonic Mounts, or if you custom build a Alter of CHaos usse them. Untl then...
Think chariot, but you have the lovechild of a gorilla and a rhino pulling it with all the anger management skills of a football hooligan/Philadelphia Eagles Fan. Like a monsterous beast should (save pegasus and Giant eagles for some odd reason) they have 3 high strength attacks, and cause fear. Aside from that they have much of the same stats as a normal chariot, and the strengths and weaknessess of one as well so see my thoughts on the Chariot and go from there. It will be interesting if they get the stomp rule. Monsterous units in 8th ed had an extra "Stomp" attack that came with Always Strike Last rules. However because how cumbersom a chariot is, those pulling one lost it. It will be interesting to see.
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Chaos Ogres: Might get a Ogre Glutton Kit just to make some of these guys, if not use them to make Rat Ogres. Essentually what the ogroid are now. Big dumb bruiserss that went off on their wonderlust and found the perfect source of food and fights with the servants of chaos. Some even turn to the worship of chaos. As ogres they are more reliant to the influence of chaos, and have a distrust if not hatred towards the dragon ogres, but are here for a good time. I can see them armed with a handweapon with options for sheilds, 2 hand weapons, and even great weapons. Light armor, heavy armor, and chaos armor. Even marks of chaos. Being a monsterous unit, you should only need a rank of three and 2 or 3 ranks of these guys should work. A normal ogre was about 28 to 30 points give or take, so they shouldn't be more than that to 40 once marks and other upgrades are given. Can take normal comand optiosn but I forget if they could take magic bannners. I think they could even have eyes of the gods.
their stats are the mix bag. Move 6, WS3, BS2, S and T 4, 3 wounds, Initiative 2, 3 attackss normal with a 4th on the champion, and an LD of 7 or 8. So they won't have the best reaction time, but as one Demotivational I found on Initiative said: Its not about who goes first. Its who survives the other guy's attacks. Part of this will come from what you upgrade them to be equiped with. Part of this will be from the fact they have fear so at the very least they will make enemeies have to check to see if they can hit them normaly, or if they are stuck with 5's and 6's until their next round of combat. An ogre last eddition had a unit strength of 3, so 2 full ranks of them will have a unit strength of 18 regardless of how many wounds they have left. This means a unit of 6 to 9 can easily grant this unit to have more a unit strength than some enemy units of a normal size. if this is the case, that means they have to test to see if they can even charge the ogres if they are outnumbered by the unit strength.
If GW is smart, these coasts will also be offsset with Impact Hits. THey finaly gave it to them in 8th ed I think, but the main ogre ary could get 1 Impact Hit for every mini in close combat. These became D3 impact hits per mini if they had a charge range of 10 or more inches. As impact hits are done before anything else, they cann get a couple (anywhere from 3 to 9) in before combat at their unit strength (speculating based on previous editions), take a few hits that their hide and armor should tank for the most part), then weapon attacks, then a trio of stomps. At WS3 probably not going to get alot of hits in, but they have alot of attacks so some bound to hit. Overal, this should be a fun unit to play.
This said, they are far from invincible. WS 3 means that they have a 50/50 chance of being hit by most units in melee, and lightly better by more eleite level ones. Halberds and great weapons can even the odds if not outright get through their tough hides and armor. ANd because they probably have a up to a 4+ or 3+ armor save at most, and most maybe a heavy armor's 5+, bows, crossbows, and handgunss will deal some damage to them. They have fewer ogres in a unit then an empire unit has men, therefore it will take less dead ogres to cause a panic than dead men to do the same. Also they will be rather pricy, both in points and in hard earn cash so they will be in smaller units for the most part.
Chaos Trolls: Trolls, we love you. I think CHaos Trolls could take an extra hand weapon, which is unique to them, granting them 4 instead of the normal 3 attacks. I can also see armor being an upgrade as there are armored trolls in the Total War video games for chaos. Alot of their stats will stink, namely WS 3, Initiative 1, and most likly a LD of 4. But they also have S5 strength and 3 to 4 attacks each. Or they can go for Troll Vomit Instead, where they exchange those attacks for one auto hit that ignores armor. So you want to deal with that anvil unit, or that Steam Tank; here's your monster. They also have fear and a form of Regeneration called mutant Regeneration that allowed them to roll on the Eye of the Gods chart if they roll alot of 6's on the regeneration save.
This all said, they have some drawbacks. Low weapon skill and Initiative means anyone not armed with great weapons will go first, and a massive amounts of attacks will still cause damage. ALso if they took any flaming damage that turn, say from a magical effect from a spell or banner that gives weapons flaming attacks that hit them, or a spell attack with flaming attacks such as Fireball, one successful wound will negate their regeneration the entire turn.
Against most units, say Empire Spearmen or Brettonian Errent Knights, they will have a 50/50 chance hitting them, and unless they are hiting them with Strength 4 hits from say halberds or S5 from a Great Weapon or Charging lance, they are going to wound a tiny fraction of the time. This fraction gets smaller when you have a 50/50 chance of regeneration saving. Take that regeneration away with some good flaming attacks, and a have halberds or great weapons to equal or get higher than their toughness, and now they going to have problems.
They will also be smaller units, 3 to 66, because they again will be pricy both in points and in one's disposable income. This said, there is a second problem, its their LD and the fact that Stupidity is BACK! Durring the New Strategy Phase, this is one of the confirmed psychology rules that will be in effect in the new Strategy phase. Its a LD test, they pass it they act as normal as you can get for something that lives in the chaos wastes. But if the 2 D6 score higher than their LD and they get distracted. We'll wait and see if they get Immune to Psychology all the time or only when they go stupid, but that was something that happened in older editions, but ore importantly they are forced to do a D6 Random movements. They have Movement 6 so a good march than a charge could see them in combat quickly. So for a couple of turns you may want a character on a Monstrous mount ike a daemonic mount or a general within shouting rang of them for a couple turns so they have their LD to work with. Otherwise...dwarves which will have crap movvement speed will be the ones charging them. Then again, that would be funny and I would love to see that!
Mini wise, I would like to see some new minies, but some green stuff on the existing Trogoth lines, maybe add a head there, some glasses and a keyboard there, and you have a good Maybe make two look like they are hitting each other with a pony of any color other than nature intended for added points.
Hellstriders: They came in I think 7th or 8th edition, want to say 8. They are Chaos Marauders that Slannesh tricked to being eternal hunters and so are permanently stuck on Striders of SLannesh: 2 legged sleek beasts with high Initiate, movement 10, fast cavalry, and poison attacks. Being Daemonic mounts they also conferred a 5+ ward save to their riders, and beasts of Slannesh this unit of course has the mark of slannesh. THey have spears and sheilds or flails, so all about getting that charge in. Being fast cavalry, probably not the best unit to have on more deadicated combat heavy units, espesialy ones in the special rank. However supporting one your own by attacking the flank of the same enemy, and or going after the range units behind the enemy front line is still a good strategy. With the ward save, they have better survivability than most fast cave, but still have their strength and wealnesses and being mounted on a daemon will lkly see them over 20 points per half naken man on snake horse thing.
Chimera: What fool thought this as a special unit was fair? I am all for OVERKILL being the name of the game here, but this...not a rare choice...the enemies of chaos need a chance to win. Introduced in Storm of Magic: A suppliment that allowed you to add an extra beast, mosnterous, monster units, and even daemons and undead in your army as well as boosting the amount of Power Dice you had so you could cast more potent spells more often. A quater of your total points extra was the amount, and that left plenty of room for giants, hydras, and all maner of beasties...including this one on the first page.
Going off Memory, LD 6 was its weakness. Aside from that it had the Strength and Toughness to deal with high armored and toughness foes, a number of wounds and a 4+ armor save to stick around for a while, 5 or 6 base attacks, an option for an additional tail attack or a tail attack that had D3 extra hits (the latter came into the Warriors of Chaos Book) and S4 flaming attack to deal with hoard enemies. Most monsters I like to lable as Browlsers that are built for taking on eleites and other monsters (less attacks, but decent high strength attacks and maybe things like illing blow to get past armor or other perks that allow them to deal more damage to a single target). Or Crowd Control: They get alot of attacks in to deal with the massess (in this case, 2-12 flaming S4 flaming attacks, one usse, pus about 5 or 6 base attacks +1-3 more base attacks that hit easier if this attack hits something in the rear of it) and that was before stomp! Judging from the Shagoth states they had, the stomp will be a more reasonable 1+D3....still lots of people go squish! Oh, and its flying with Terror!
Granted, the OG Chimera had to have molten lead poured down her throat to killer so maybe overkill works.
Currently its with the Beasts of CHaos, but that dosn't mean it can't go back. Speaking of beasts, shouldn't they have their own trolls in Old World as well?
Will Cover Spawn, SLaughter Brutes, Vortex Beasts, Warshrines, Giants, Hellcannons, Dragon Ogres, Shagoths, and Skullcrushers in my next post, with the one after that on the charecters, and the one after that what other potential units might be available in the future.
