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Author Topic: 2000 pts Empire 6e list vs dark elves  (Read 986 times)

Offline PowerSeries

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2000 pts Empire 6e list vs dark elves
« on: January 24, 2024, 07:02:39 PM »
2001 Pt

Hello, I'm playing against a Dark Elf player who has beat me twice in a row so far, who fields many fast cav units and magic.


Characters: 474 Points

Elector Count   122
Armor
Sigil of Sigmar
Enchanted shield

Captain on Pegasus 114

Lv 2 wizard with dispell scrolls 140

War Priest   with heavy armor and extra hammer 98
(That's the mini I have painted, I know great weapons are better)


Core: 873 Points
303pts - 20x Spearmen
Full Command + Griffon standard
8 Halbardiers and 5 Archers to screen

165pts -  20 Swordsmen
Full command and 8 FC detatchment

50 pts - 5 Huntsmen

200 pts - 25 handgunners / crossbowmen
Probably in two units of 10 and a detachment of 5.  15 Crossbowmen are freshly painted, and lots of handgunners
I had range issues last time, hence building and assembling the crossbowmen.

The plan is for them to shoot the fast cav.



115pts - 5x Knights


Special: 510 Points
200 pts - 2x Cannons
Will target the enemy war machines first
 

196pts - 6x Inner Circle knights
Full Command

114pts - 6x Pistoliers
Freshly painted as well.  I can field 2 more if needed.

Rare:

144 - 3x Ogres (Ironguts rules)
I am just painting these now, the 48 points for Ld8, heavy armour and great weapons seem good compared to dogs of war ogres at 35
I want these to operate on my flank, so the extra leadership will be useful.


Last time, as long as my infantry blocks made it in without panicing from shooting, they did do well.  I had one good bait with a detachment vs the witch elves.  We just escalated to 2000pts this time, last two were 1500.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2024, 08:04:20 PM by PowerSeries »

Offline Zygmund

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Re: 2000 pts Empire 6e list vs dark elves
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2024, 09:28:13 PM »
I've played several games against varied DE lists in 6th ed. The combination of speed, shooting and spells is a nasty one. Most of all it requires you to see beforehand where the DE can move, and decide early on where you want to engage.

Warrior Priests are overcosted and do very little against the DE. Consider taking a BSB or another Wizard in its place.

Two scrolls cost the same as the Rod of Power. People more experienced than me keep telling me that the RoP is flexible and worth its points. In combination with one level 2 Wizard, I hear it can provide decent magic defence.

Archer screens work if you can project your General's leadership to them. Ld9 skirmishers are really hard to panic, even for the DE. They usually need to be killed to a man.

It might be hard to keep aim on the fast cav with static shooting, because the fast cav can first hide behind other units and then dash outside of the shooting units' los arc. You have plenty of the shooters, but might consider taking still more, so that you can wield three individual units. You can then make one of those a detachment to the Swordsmen, if you like, for deployment purposes and possible mid-game synenergy.

Crossbowmen are better than Handgunners against DE, especially since you mentioned you want to shoot at their light cav. Against Cold Ones and chariots Handgunners would be nice.

Small melee detachments are prone to get shot to pieces, because the DE players knows they are nimble and the DE are fragile. Consider taking them larger, to sustain losses and still stay effective.

Two cannons is good and very needful against those repeater spear shenanigans. They're also good against chariots, and force the DE player to think where and how he positions the fast cav.

Ogres is an interesting choice. They're fast & hit super hard with great weapons against T3 Elfs. Hope you get to hit something with more armour. Interesting how the DE player deals with them. Probably with shooting and more shooting, and a magic missile if they get the one with S5. Which is away from your other units.

I've seen DE players getting quite upset about Helblasters, focusing a good deal of energy to shut them down. Against T3 it's devastating, most hits result in kills. If you have the model and can live with the uncertainty, consider taking one instead of so many r&f shooters. It can shoot in every direction, unlike the r&f shooters, so brings flexibility against an army that moves faster than yours and tries to flank you.

-Z
« Last Edit: January 24, 2024, 11:10:13 PM by Zygmund »
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Offline PowerSeries

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Re: 2000 pts Empire 6e list vs dark elves
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2024, 09:54:12 PM »
Well it went OKAY.

We played a scenario where the central hill is worth 250 vps to claim, otherwise normal vps.  I claimed the hill, but at a steep cost, and lost by 330 vps. 

I took your advice, and dropped the war priest for a bsb and I'm happy with that.  I also took the rod instead of the scrolls.  I think I should have not bothered being lv2, and taken more men in the detachments instead.  I was only able to cast one spell all game. 

The table was a little narrow, and had a swamp and forest in each deployment zone, along with the central (vision blocking) hill.


Deployment wise, I went nilla knights, xbows (in swamp), cannon, sneaky pistoliers behind, spearmen with halbardies on left, swordies with FC on right, but back a bit, Inner circle knights in front of them.  Huntsmen forced to be a screen as I lost the scouts rolloff.  Then cannon, ogres in woods, and handgunner outside.

That was facing off against Cold ones, dark riders, xbows in woods, 10 cosairs, 10 witch elves, 20 spearmen, 10 executioners, 20 spearmen, march, dark riders.  And more dark riders behind the woods.

My cannons were firing water balloon, and I think killed a total of 3 spearmen, 1 dark rider, and 1 cold one knight, having hit about twice that, but rolling a heck of a lot of ones.  I even got a direct hit on the ballista but no damage.

I made a mistake wheeling the handgunners a little bit too much when they moved up, and he could sneak the dark riders out of the arc.  I thought that was too far, but they could conca line on the board edge.  That unit played with the handgunners all game, and didn't have much impact.

Ogres moved up slowly, editing the woods at the end of T2.  I moved most of my dudes behind the hill, but my knights stuck out a little, and got cut in half by magic and shooting.  Those three remaining knights still had a large impact later though.

xbows managed to hurt the cosairs, and then the witch elves before getting shot to bits by the opposing crossbows. 

I was neither agressive enough, nor cautious enough with my nilla knights on the left flank.  I moved them up T1, and the enemy cold ones failed their stupidity check the next turn, but remained out of range due to how I wheeled I think.  I did charge the dark riders (with wizard), who fled, and I was just two inches off of redirecting into the crossbows.  But I fled the cold ones charge, and hoped to rally, but instead ran off the table on my next turn with a impressive high roll for both leadership and flee distance.

The pistoliers popped out and shot the crap out of the witch elves, leaving 3 left, and countercharged the weakened cosairs' flank after the halbard detachment fled, and killed them, but were shot to death, and run down by dark riders.

The spearmen got on the hill, killed the witch elves, and stood next to the knights, but when the knights got charged by the executioners, the spearmen got touched  onthe flank and we lined up.  The executioners did nothing, and the magic war banner helped me not lost combat.  Next turn the swordsmen charged the executioners flank and we won combat.  The knights ran them down while the infantry held, and the knights pursued all the way bast the elven spearmen over to the right flank.

The FC were covering the swordsmen's flank, and took a charge from a large block of spearmen, and got crushed and run down, but angled them away from my flank, where the spearmen just killed my cannon and ended up in the woods.

The other block of spearmen had the sorceress lord / general, and she charged into my spearmen's front while casting word of pain.  But miscast and ended up with a 5, meaning that all my attacks against her auto hit.  I had both the BSB and 3 spearmen attack her, and rolled four 1s and two 2s to wound the unarmoured prone enemy general.  FAIL.   They did run though, but as we had the griffon standard, we had to stand our ground and then let her rally and charge us again T6.  If that had killed her, I would have won.

The elves basically played keep away and shot me a bunch for the rest of it.  The ogres didn't have a chance to engage.  The spearmen block they were targeting went some 20" with a charge and overrun and I never had a chance to charge them.

The last remaining IC knight did kill a balista crew on his own though, and didn't die, so he got his points back no problem.

I think I could have done better.  My pegasus got shot to bits as there was little terrain other than the hill, but maybe he could have stayed back a few more turns.  Still if the cannon killed their balista after shooting it, maybe it would have been better.

Offline Zygmund

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Re: 2000 pts Empire 6e list vs dark elves
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2024, 09:36:57 AM »
Thanks for the battle report!

How narrow was the table?

I took your advice, and dropped the war priest for a bsb and I'm happy with that.  I also took the rod instead of the scrolls.  I think I should have not bothered being lv2, and taken more men in the detachments instead.  I was only able to cast one spell all game.

Happy my advice was worth something. Lvl2 is always a bit awkward. Sometimes it works (worked for me yesterday against VC), sometimes it gets nothing done. Scrolls don't require rolling, so are secure in that sense. 

Quote
The elves basically played keep away and shot me a bunch for the rest of it.  The ogres didn't have a chance to engage.  The spearmen block they were targeting went some 20" with a charge and overrun and I never had a chance to charge them.

[...]

Still if the cannon killed their balista after shooting it, maybe it would have been better.

Sounds exactly DE tactics. I'm myself struggling with DE because of their heavy shooting and fast cav. Movement is extra important, but you also need to have good shooting - and be effective with it. Your cannons achieving little sounds familiar, and is very frustrating for the Empire.

Quote
The last remaining IC knight did kill a balista crew on his own though, and didn't die, so he got his points back no problem.

Revenge!  :happy:

Quote
My pegasus got shot to bits as there was little terrain other than the hill, but maybe he could have stayed back a few more turns.

I've never played with a pegasus, but got one on my painting desk. I wonder how it should be played against an army that has good all calibre shooting. It should probably be screened on the approach with other units. Needs a good eye on the firing archs and potential charge routes. You need to open yourself in order to get a charge, and they ofcourse will shoot you then.

Maybe the best would be to engage something, break them, and get an overrun or pursuit into the ballistas. But this is only possible if the opponent places something so that it opens up such a way & angle at the ballista.

-Z
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Offline PowerSeries

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Re: 2000 pts Empire 6e list vs dark elves
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2024, 01:24:29 AM »
I might even try and give him a better save and a great weapon and let his mount get shot out from under him as long as he gets close enough to charge on foot next turn. 

I misjudged the distance this time, and was 22" away from the balista (but found out when he checked for long range).  So even though the captain took all the bolts and the pegasus passed the leadership check I didn't get a charge off.

Offline Dazgrim

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Re: 2000 pts Empire 6e list vs dark elves
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2024, 10:05:00 PM »
Do you have a Helblaster?
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Offline PowerSeries

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Re: 2000 pts Empire 6e list vs dark elves
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2024, 01:50:05 AM »
I do not own one, no.

I know they are good in 6e as they autohit, vs needing to roll to hit afterwards.

Offline Warlord

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Re: 2000 pts Empire 6e list vs dark elves
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2024, 01:07:40 AM »
In 6th they halved at long distance, and were S4 at long distance too.
At least that's from memory... don't recall 100%
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Offline PowerSeries

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Re: 2000 pts Empire 6e list vs dark elves
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2024, 04:00:46 PM »
Yeah that seems about right.  Still pretty good compared to needing to roll to hit.