Topic: Empire arcane journal wishlist

[Clymer]

 

I don't think I overlooked the mortar... I just blocked it out of my psyche 

[PowerSeries]

Man, the goblins have a magic item for 25pts which removes impetuous.  Would you put a captain / WP with that item into your pistoliers?

[commandant]

Can the champion of pistoliers not take magic items?

[PowerSeries]

Okay, so look at what the Orcs & Goblins got, and how it helped them in their Arcane Journal.  No points adjustments on units, but a new black orc Cariot, a new hero / monster (Hag mother) and new magic items.  How could these help the empire?

Unlikely given it's not a end times campaign, but we could get a super arch lector with Ld 9 and a new WP focused list.  Maybe it grants rerolls to all WP attempts to pray, or grants hatred to the unit or something to buff them when using that list.   Maybe some buffs to witch hunters or free companies.

I don't think we need it, but a knightly orders focused list?  I don't even know what we'd need.  But the O&G get impact hits on all cav for their nomatic waaaah list.  And ambushers for their fast cav.  Ambushing pistoliers would be good.

Halfling focused list?  Add in cheap BS4 halflings with bows or slings but push knights out of core perhaps?  Hopefully the halflings could join the grand army list.

I would love to see swordsmen duelists get broken into their own unit block so they can get I4 again, and perhaps the option to skirmish.  Or shieldwall.

What else could be expanded upon for an empire list?  We just got merc ogres available in the O&G book, perhaps merc pikemen?  Though they took away elves' fight in three ranks with spears, so I'm not expecting pikes to have fight in 4 ranks anymore.  Would be cool though.



I could see a Kislev list being added too, with ice magic as a new lore etc.

Any magic items that could make or break a list? Maybe an engineer option to give +1S to a war machine, to help mortar and hellstorm...

[Skyros]

Man, the goblins have a magic item for 25pts which removes impetuous.  Would you put a captain / WP with that item into your pistoliers?

That would basically double the units cost. May as well just run two units of pistoliers instead.

In general fast cavalry is supposed to be cheap. Spending points to make it more survivable is likely to be a losing game. If your fast cavalry can't be relied upon to do what it needs to  (via impetuous) that may just be the way it is.

[PowerSeries]

This is a wishlist, right?  If we got the "everyone must be mounted" restriction but gained impact hots on all cav, that would be powerful.  Especially since I see a lot of pure cav lists already.

[sedobren]

Obviously to be taken with a hand full of salt, but on the tow discord some rumors seems to suggest that the two Empire armies of infamy might be the Middenheim one (a safe bet, very likely since there was already one in the 6th edition) and the nuln artillery one.

[Skyros]

The middenheim one could be fun (maybe the infantry will actually be good?).

The Nuln gun line one is an 'obvious' choice they could make, but I'm not too excited for it. I don't think gunlines in WFB are particularly fun to play against, or even to play. I think they are very hard to balance. I think in general no army should just be able to shoot another off the board like routinely happens in 40k.

[PowerSeries]

Boring, but possible.  I think the All-Mounted O&G list was in their 6e book, and the knightly order and Nuln lists were in our 6e book.

[lcmiracle]

A shame, unless things like Warriors of Ulric and Wolfkins get warband, I don't see a value in a Middenheim list -- nothing that can't already be done with the grand army list. And if they want to sell more stanks or add more creative warmachines they should have gone with the Imperial School of Engineering. I mean, what will the Nuln even list do? Cannons and mortars are already specials, has any of the AJs reduced points for units? Will they make Mortars core lmao?

At this point, an FAQ just to rebalance the Empire would be more exciting to me

[Footpatrol2]

Maybe we get access to the war wagon. We lack chariots aside from war altar and steam tank.

Whatever we get it's gunna be something we had before that will resurface. Look at Bret and bombard cannon or Ong and troll hag.

Those ancient models are coming back.

[lcmiracle]

Maybe we get access to the war wagon. We lack chariots aside from war altar and steam tank.

Whatever we get it's gunna be something we had before that will resurface. Look at Bret and bombard cannon or Ong and troll hag.

Those ancient models are coming back.

They tell the players to make the Bombard using Empire or Dwarf cannons. I wouldn't be surprised if they ask us to build the war wagon from the War Altar/Luminark kit. In fact, the wagon part of these two kits are literally the same AFAIK. Might even ask us to buy that Empire Watch tower for the walls.

[sedobren]

The rumors also said that there are going to be extensive faqs once all of the journals are released.
I'm curious about the potential nuln list. If they make pistoliers core it could be a fun and surprisingly mobile army that combines shooting and melee. Like war wagons, pistoliers, otriders, cannons and steam tanks. The Artillery college at war. Plus, maybe, steam tank's variants?

[Gorim]

Considering the return of the Prince Uther Dragon Company alongside the dwarf journal, maybe we can expect some forgotten 2-3 edition Regiment of Renown.

In a Nuln list, perhaps small engineers, like in the 6.5 edition dwarf book (basically fourth crewman that gives some rerolls / boosts).
War Wagon would be fun, same as Teutogen guards / warriors of ulric / wolfkin / hunting dogs... But the real "problem" is, will these new units "repair" the army book, or just provide with more fluffy but poor options. I am a Middenheim fanboy, so will play that version of the list anyway, but one can hope for a playable list, not just lose with style list:P

[PowerSeries]

Well I can't see them replacing the points cost for the state troops, except in a new list.  Only stuff like new magic weapons and the special characters affect the list.  But I could see a special Elector count lord which would make great swords core.

[commandant]

I would not like to see greatswords as core. I'm not a fan of this X makes one unit of Y core. I think it is bad for the game.

However it might be cool if you could arm your state troops with great weapons, maybe as as upgrade go veteran state troops. This could represent the level between state troops and greatswords.   

So you would have you basic state troops who are the professionals.
Your veteran state troops who are the experiences professionals.
Your greatweapon armed veteran state troops who are the ones heading for the elite regiments
And finally the greatswords who are the elite regiment

[Perforated]

I would not like to see greatswords as core. I'm not a fan of this X makes one unit of Y core. I think it is bad for the game.

Care to elaborate?

It's a neat piece of design space that allows certain character types to be more desirable without having to boost them in other ways.

However it might be cool if you could arm your state troops with great weapons, maybe as as upgrade go veteran state troops. This could represent the level between state troops and greatswords.   

Either they will become useless (too expensive, no survivability with only light armour). Or they will step on the toes of Greatswords, pushing them out as a less cost-effective option.

So you would have you basic state troops who are the professionals.
Your veteran state troops who are the experiences professionals.
Your greatweapon armed veteran state troops who are the ones heading for the elite regiments
And finally the greatswords who are the elite regiment

And for some reason, when the soldier is promoted to a Greatsword he loses the veteran status (and has to regain it) 

[commandant]

I would not like to see greatswords as core. I'm not a fan of this X makes one unit of Y core. I think it is bad for the game.

Care to elaborate?

It's a neat piece of design space that allows certain character types to be more desirable without having to boost them in other ways.

Maybe but my understanding of the core, special, rare is that they represent how common the type of soldiers are in the army in question.   Like if I was able to take greatswords as a core choice I certainly would and produce an army which had 2 large units of greatswords and therefore I would have an empire army that had no core units in it.   This does not seem to me to accurately represent what an empire army is.

It might be better to shift some units from special to rare and then let you have them in special if you took a certain character.   Its not what GW have done though.

However it might be cool if you could arm your state troops with great weapons, maybe as as upgrade go veteran state troops. This could represent the level between state troops and greatswords.   

Either they will become useless (too expensive, no survivability with only light armour). Or they will step on the toes of Greatswords, pushing them out as a less cost-effective option.

True but they might have a role as combat detachments (which after all what greatweapon armed units often were.)

So you would have you basic state troops who are the professionals.
Your veteran state troops who are the experiences professionals.
Your greatweapon armed veteran state troops who are the ones heading for the elite regiments
And finally the greatswords who are the elite regiment

And for some reason, when the soldier is promoted to a Greatsword he loses the veteran status (and has to regain it) 

I know, all the same the progression is nice and would follow the fluff really well.

[Dazgrim]

Maybe but my understanding of the core, special, rare is that they represent how common the type of soldiers are in the army in question.   Like if I was able to take greatswords as a core choice I certainly would and produce an army which had 2 large units of greatswords and therefore I would have an empire army that had no core units in it.   This does not seem to me to accurately represent what an empire army is.

That's what the core army without characters represents, but having an EC make a unit of greatswords core is an attempt to play with this. If your EC is on the battlefield and his hand picked elite bodyguard regiment isn't is that not a little odd?

[Zygmund]

It's a neat piece of design space that allows certain character types to be more desirable without having to boost them in other ways.

Maybe but my understanding of the core, special, rare is that they represent how common the type of soldiers are in the army in question.   Like if I was able to take greatswords as a core choice I certainly would and produce an army which had 2 large units of greatswords and therefore I would have an empire army that had no core units in it.   This does not seem to me to accurately represent what an empire army is.

It might be better to shift some units from special to rare and then let you have them in special if you took a certain character.   Its not what GW have done though.

7th ed Warrior Priests allowed one unit of Flagellants in Core. I can't remember anybody whining about it. It was esteemed as very good design by GW. Fluffy, and not OP.

Greatswords should be a 0-1 per 2000pts choice, and then allow the Elector Count to take them in core. Because that would be exactly as it should. Maybe an Empire General would need to buy a small upgrade to make him an Elector Count, which would then open some choices. I'm seeing several minimum units of Greatswords played as Stubborn chaff, and that's just so totally against the setting.

Talking of a wishlist, I just played against Brets who have the Battle Pilgrims - Stubborn, Heavy Infantry, LA+Sh. Always include the Grail Reliquae and a Grail Vow character nearby, and the unit is Unbreakable. For 8pts per model, and you always want the Grail Reliquae for 65pts (6 Wounds, 6 Attacks to the front, solid psychology). It's a great tarpit unit, everything is geared towards that role.

Flagellants should definitely have something similar. It's Empire, so it should be bigger: 50x100mm base war altar or some sort of penitent machine should fit the bill. Also great opportunity for centrepiece modeling without bringing another lone monster or STank.

In general, a religious nuts army list would be fun. Make infantry strong with a blanket special rule (immune to fear?), at the cost of bringing no special knights or knight commanders. Possibly Flagellants in special and artillery in rare. Plus some sort of new unit in special (because after removing cav and arty, it would be too empty).

-Zyg

[Skyros]

Maybe but my understanding of the core, special, rare is that they represent how common the type of soldiers are in the army in question.

That's exactly what it is. And how common troop types are in an army depends greatly on the general leading the army. That's why I think almost every edition has had some generals for whom certain previously special units are 'core', to help give a better identity to the army.  It functions very well, helps make fun and thematic lists, and leads to more variety.

[Warlord]

I don't think the TOW setting has a requirement for a 'religious nutter' army. They are fringe, because the setting is more stable and not aware they are on the brink.
However I do think a Rare version of a War Altar that's not a character mount could be interesting.

A Nuln army, that had pistoliers in core could be quite interesting. Plus Steam Tank variants (Yes, I know that's the Engineering School in Altdorf, but still).

A Middenhiem army is more natural choice for them, because they can re-release Teutogen Guard and the White Wolf knight sprue.

[Grendel083]

However I do think a Rare version of a War Altar that's not a character mount could be interesting.

I'm just disapointed the War Altar is Lectors of Sigmar only, and not available to a High Priest of Ulric.

[Skyros]

Can the champion of pistoliers not take magic items?

Sadly, no. They are young nobles, you'd think they'd have more access to magic items than a lot of units

[Warlord]

However I do think a Rare version of a War Altar that's not a character mount could be interesting.

I'm just disapointed the War Altar is Lectors of Sigmar only, and not available to a High Priest of Ulric.

Yeah, I didn't like that either. A sled pulled by wolves would look fantastic. That said, it could be a possibility for a Middenheim list... however with no model I am not certain.