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Author Topic: Gw knights used0  (Read 813 times)

Offline Footpatrol2

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Gw knights used0
« on: March 25, 2024, 03:20:28 PM »
Took a all mounted list with birdy.

Took core gw knights with priest of Ulric 13 strong+ priest 7 wide. Faced against tooled up black orcs. (Other targets we ng w/fanatics) We basically ate each other. Was surprised how well they did. Got reroll 6's prayers off. It was likely equal points.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Gw knights used0
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2024, 02:51:38 PM »
Very cool. How many black orcs? How were they equipped because that Motley rule is pretty dodgy IMO.
What was the rest of your list like?
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Offline Skyros

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Re: Gw knights used0
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2024, 03:58:18 PM »
Took a all mounted list with birdy.

Took core gw knights with priest of Ulric 13 strong+ priest 7 wide. Faced against tooled up black orcs. (Other targets we ng w/fanatics) We basically ate each other. Was surprised how well they did. Got reroll 6's prayers off. It was likely equal points.

I've been considering filling my core with a big unit of knights with drilled. It only increases the cost of a knight by 4% to give him drilled. (Increases the cost of a state troop by, what, 20 %?)

Before you charge, use drilled the redress the ranks and then charge in 12 wide or whatever.  If its your first charge, you should be able to make even a formed enemy block with lots of static CR from ranks FBIGO.

Also, with 12 knights in the unit, you have a unit strength of 24.  I think if you could finesse the numbers so that your knight unit would outnumber the target infantry block (often maybe 20 or 24 in size) by two to one after combat, you could guarantee a flee instead of a FBIGO.

I would expect such a knight unit to attract a lot of magical attention, so perhaps a witch hunter in there for the MR would be useful.

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Gw knights used0
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2024, 06:22:20 PM »
Also, with 12 knights in the unit, you have a unit strength of 24.  I think if you could finesse the numbers so that your knight unit would outnumber the target infantry block (often maybe 20 or 24 in size) by two to one after combat, you could guarantee a flee instead of a FBIGO.

You would likely need 13 models (so 14 attacks with a champion) to reach a 50% possibility of 'guaranteeing a flee instead of a FBIGO' on a mediocre infantry unit. (Against elite with WS4, T4 and 4+ armour, there's no hope.) With drilled, you would need to start 8 wide in order to go 13 wide. And you mustn't lose models to shooting during the advance.

Sounds like a gamble for very little. And that mediocre infantry unit shouldn't be a main target for 12+ knights. It's like pesky Empire or Skaven infantry, which can be dealt with other units. Of course if you can achieve a breaktrough by locating such a weak spot in the line, go for it.

How about using three minimum knight units of four, each with a champion? You still get up to US 12 and 13-15 attacks (depending on how many champions you get in base contact), you get to stack Close Order, you might get a flank (good in case you already charged something else) - but you also get the flexibility in the case your opponent doesn't feed you a medium infantry regiment just like that.

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Offline Skyros

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Re: Gw knights used0
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2024, 06:33:18 PM »
Also, with 12 knights in the unit, you have a unit strength of 24.  I think if you could finesse the numbers so that your knight unit would outnumber the target infantry block (often maybe 20 or 24 in size) by two to one after combat, you could guarantee a flee instead of a FBIGO.

You would likely need 13 models (so 14 attacks with a champion) to reach a 50% possibility of 'guaranteeing a flee instead of a FBIGO' on a mediocre infantry unit. (Against elite with WS4, T4 and 4+ armour, there's no hope.) With drilled, you would need to start 8 wide in order to go 13 wide. And you mustn't lose models to shooting during the advance.

Sounds like a gamble for very little. And that mediocre infantry unit shouldn't be a main target for 12+ knights.

I actually think a block of skaven rats or whatever is not a terrible target for a big block of knights! Your own infantry will be very unlikely to get the charge off on the skaven (due to lower movement, and not having warband) and is weak and overcosted anyway. No point in pushing the small 4 or 5 man knight units into an infantry block, ti's true

Aside from greatswords, I actually think a big block of core knights might be my favorite thing to throw into a big block of enemy core infantry. I want my steam tanks and demigryphs and such tackling harder infantry (like all those WS4 4+ armor save guys you mention)

However having to be 8 wide is a big issue, I think. That's simply a massive footprint that will really restrict where you can go.

Offline LiberadoWoj

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Re: Gw knights used0
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2024, 08:42:33 PM »
Aren't lances strictly better? Better AS 3+ for lances and 4+ for GW. Only time GW is better is when enemy gives ground. Also, lances will make you fight first most of the time.

Offline Footpatrol2

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Re: Gw knights used0
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2024, 09:01:46 PM »

Gw is better in sustained fights at the cost of AS and charging initiative, but Ulric priest kinda mitigates AS. Gw is also a little Tactically forgiving.

Ya I ran it because I never have.

Lances are better if you can get the charge and maintain the enemy in fbigo which may or may not be possible. They will hit like a wet noodle in protracted fights thou.

If you can play a perfect game lances are better..

Offline Rodman49

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Re: Gw knights used0
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2024, 06:19:05 AM »
I would say lances are clearly better.

They are 100% better in the first round of combat and better in subsequent rounds where you won and pursue the enemy as they FBIGO.  They strike at better initiative, and permit a better armour save.

Only in cases where enemies have high leadership and shield wall (Dwarves maybe?) are GW their equal.

To be honest - this reason is the best reason to consider making lances not work after FBIGO - it makes the choice between GW and Lance an actual choice rather than foregone conclusion.


Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: Gw knights used0
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2024, 03:59:33 PM »
Ya, so what are the instances where GW knights are better? Against which armies and units?

I wouldn't mind running a big block of knights with GW but if I need sustained damage in second round I just go with Demigryphs and use core as MSU.
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Offline Footpatrol2

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Re: Gw knights used0
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2024, 04:07:51 PM »
Imo you take core knights with gw is really the only useful way to take em. As Part of the core tax. Otherwise Demi's in special definitely do it better.