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Author Topic: All Characters in the front rank…  (Read 508 times)

Offline Warlord

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All Characters in the front rank…
« on: April 06, 2024, 02:34:48 AM »
I just har a thought of how to make state troops viable. Unit of state troops (no equipment or even shield) that goes behind 3 demigryph riding characters taking up the whole front rank. They can add ranks and standard only.

Smart? Silly?
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Offline Athiuen

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Re: All Characters in the front rank…
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2024, 09:42:06 AM »
You could do it in a tournament, I guess.

I wouldn't do it in a casual game. It's just not Empire.
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Offline madeinitaly1

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Re: All Characters in the front rank…
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2024, 10:54:42 AM »
Must the command group stay in the front rank?

Offline PowerSeries

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Re: All Characters in the front rank…
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2024, 01:25:45 PM »
The command group must stay in the front rank.

"Too many characters" rule says the units front rank needs to have at least half troops, and extra characters need to retire to the back.

Offline Warlord

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Re: All Characters in the front rank…
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2024, 03:00:15 PM »
Well never mind then!
I mainly had the idea when I considered I take 2 demi-gryph characters, and then I thought about putting them in the one unit, and I realised that it would cover 4/5 spots on the front rank.

That said, it seems like a very sensible way to protect a warrior priest, witch hunter, or some other character who can bring buffs to a unit but we don’t want to fight. In that way, you don’t need to give them any equipment at all to keep them cheap.
Interesting…
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Offline Rodman49

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Re: All Characters in the front rank…
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2024, 03:34:32 PM »
This is not permitted under page 209 of the rulebook - section "Too Many Characters"

https://tow.whfb.app/characters/too-many-characters

Unless a unit contains only a single rank, its fighting rank cannot contain more characters than it does rank and file models. If it does, one or more must 'retire' from combat. Upon retiring, a character:

Moves through the ranks to take up a position away from the fighting rank.

Cannot make any attacks or have attacks directed against them.

Confers no benefits to the unit in the form of Leadership, special rules, or anything else.

Offline Warlord

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Re: All Characters in the front rank…
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2024, 04:10:19 PM »
Confers no benefits to the unit in the form of Leadership, special rules, or anything else.[/i]
Brutal. Geez. Ok then!

Here I was thinking I had found a way to make priests viable. Never mind!
« Last Edit: April 06, 2024, 04:12:28 PM by Warlord »
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Offline commandant

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Re: All Characters in the front rank…
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2024, 07:57:48 PM »
Priests of sigmar don't need to be in the unit and if they are within 3 inches they can't be targets of shooting

Offline lcmiracle

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Re: All Characters in the front rank…
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2024, 02:40:36 AM »
The command group must stay in the front rank.

"Too many characters" rule says the units front rank needs to have at least half troops, and extra characters need to retire to the back.

What's the consensus on that rule here? The way I read that rule is that the command group is not rank-n-file, and the rule only activate if a character is to join them. So a unit with a frontage of 4 including full command and at least 2 ranks -- no character; frontage 5 & full command? 1 character; 6 for 1 characters (3 slots, needs at least 2 r-n-f); 7 for 2, etc...

But a unit can have a frontage of 3 and full command as long as no characters join them? Also, say we have a unit of 4 demis, and a frontage of 3, we can't put a BSB in it unless it has only command group model? Thoughts?

Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: All Characters in the front rank…
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2024, 07:18:39 AM »
You don't have to take command. Don't really need champion if you got 3 characters in there. And musicians don't do much.
Or you go 7 wide so you can take a banner.

Edit: im wrong

« Last Edit: April 07, 2024, 07:27:04 AM by The Peacemaker »
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Offline sedobren

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Re: All Characters in the front rank…
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2024, 07:21:33 AM »
The command group must stay in the front rank.

"Too many characters" rule says the units front rank needs to have at least half troops, and extra characters need to retire to the back.

What's the consensus on that rule here? The way I read that rule is that the command group is not rank-n-file, and the rule only activate if a character is to join them. So a unit with a frontage of 4 including full command and at least 2 ranks -- no character; frontage 5 & full command? 1 character; 6 for 1 characters (3 slots, needs at least 2 r-n-f); 7 for 2, etc...

But a unit can have a frontage of 3 and full command as long as no characters join them? Also, say we have a unit of 4 demis, and a frontage of 3, we can't put a BSB in it unless it has only command group model? Thoughts?

Page 198: "Note that, for the purposes of any rule that refers to ‘rank and file models’, models belonging to a command group are considered to be rank and file models unless stated otherwise." 

So the only issue i see is if you decide to put more than three characters in a single unit, which honestly should never happen. Even then, the unit is going to be pretty big, with a sizable front rank so likely no issue there. With the demigryphs is also a non issue since when will you put more than 2 characters inside them? The only two viable i can think of are a chapter master/grand master and a battle standard bearer captain. The minimum size of a demigryph unit is 2 so you are good there.

Also mind that a unit of less than 5 demigryphs with one character will allocate wounds from shooting to the character since it has less than 5 rank and file models as explained on page 209
« Last Edit: April 07, 2024, 07:25:17 AM by sedobren »

Offline Rodman49

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Re: All Characters in the front rank…
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2024, 07:23:01 AM »
The command group must stay in the front rank.

"Too many characters" rule says the units front rank needs to have at least half troops, and extra characters need to retire to the back.

What's the consensus on that rule here? The way I read that rule is that the command group is not rank-n-file, and the rule only activate if a character is to join them. So a unit with a frontage of 4 including full command and at least 2 ranks -- no character; frontage 5 & full command? 1 character; 6 for 1 characters (3 slots, needs at least 2 r-n-f); 7 for 2, etc...

But a unit can have a frontage of 3 and full command as long as no characters join them? Also, say we have a unit of 4 demis, and a frontage of 3, we can't put a BSB in it unless it has only command group model? Thoughts?

Page 198: "Note that, for the purposes of any rule that refers to ‘rank and file models’, models belonging to a command group are considered to be rank and file models unless stated otherwise." 

So the only issue i see is if you decide to put more than three characters in a single unit, which honestly should never happen. Even then, the unit is going to be pretty big, with a sizable front rank so likely no issue there. With the demigryphs is also a non issue since when will you put more than 2 characters inside them? The only two viable i can think of are a chapter master/grand master and a battle standard bearer captain. The minimum size of a demigryph unit is 2 so you are good there.

Also mind that a unit of less than 5 demigryphs with one character will allocate wounds from shooting to the character since it has less than 5 rank and file models as explained on page 209

They were talking about putting demigryph riding characters into units of infantry in order to take up more space and utilize the ranks of the infantry for combat res.

Offline Warlord

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Re: All Characters in the front rank…
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2024, 11:01:32 AM »
Allocating shooting onto a character is actually a good thing anyway,; as you can give the character a ward save, and it helps the survivability of the unit. Demigryph champions even can help with this.
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Offline sedobren

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Re: All Characters in the front rank…
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2024, 06:03:03 AM »
Allocating shooting onto a character is actually a good thing anyway,; as you can give the character a ward save, and it helps the survivability of the unit. Demigryph champions even can help with this.

depends on the character. A simple captain might be fine but a grand master is a risky choice to tank wounds.