Topic: New faq released!

[Clymer]

@commandant: why is 6 the highest possible CR for ridden monsters?

[Minsc]

I must say I do appreciate how GW took a RAI over RAW approach with this FAQ.
Their answer regarding if a drilled frenzied unit in marching column must make use of drilled in order to make an eligible charge move might be my favorite quote from GW ever:
"Yes. The unit just really wants to charge, and it'll play this game without you if it has to."

I smell sass. Looks like GWs rulesteam for TOW is about as tired of RAW-abusers as I am...

Are dragons US5?   If not it will be really hard for a ridden dragon to win against a ranked close order infantry unit that starts with a combat res of 4. Empire infantry with detachments can start with a combat res of 6 (if 1 detachment).   If you use the warbanner than you start at combat res of 5.

Yes. Monsters have their starting W as US, and ridden monsters iirc add the riders on top.
The only non-ridden monster I can think of with less than 5 US is the (already terrible) Varghulf and the Bastiladon.

Why is 6 CR the max a monster can get? Or are you talking in challenges specifically?

[commandant]

I assume that every dragon that flys into a infantry block should be challenged

[Skyros]

If not it will be really hard for a ridden dragon to win against a ranked close order infantry unit that starts with a combat res of 4.

Actually, all the good infantry in the game (almost every faction except from Empire) such as Bretonnian peasants, start with a combat res of 5

2 from ranks
1 from warband
1 from close order
1 from banner

It's only the crappy empire line infantry that is limited to 4 base

[commandant]

Empire start with 6.

2 from ranks.
1 from banner
2 from close order
1 from flank.

Or indeed 7

2 from ranks
3 from close order
1 from banner
1 from flank.

Of course there is 3 of that which can be negated but then so can the warband.

[Skyros]

If you're going to assume you get to bring multiple units to the combat, you have to assume the enemy can also bring multiple units to the combat

[Sir Falo]

If not it will be really hard for a ridden dragon to win against a ranked close order infantry unit that starts with a combat res of 4.

Actually, all the good infantry in the game (almost every faction except from Empire) such as Bretonnian peasants, start with a combat res of 5

2 from ranks
1 from warband
1 from close order
1 from banner

It's only the crappy empire line infantry that is limited to 4 base

Warband does not give you combat res. A few regiments gets horde, so +3 from ranks. But horde are not that common.

[Kippers]

A lot of good stuff here. A shame that they missed a clarification on the griffon standard though.

[commandant]

If you're going to assume you get to bring multiple units to the combat, you have to assume the enemy can also bring multiple units to the combat

I'm currently writing a piece about action economy and why that isn't the case.   Stay tuned, I suppose.

[The Peacemaker]

Edit: I'm dumb.

Got mad about close order and unit strength 5 because my Empire knight list takes min sized knights. BUT cav count as 2 each!
I do think close order having a min 5 is good for the game.

Sucks for Empire Detachments.

Mace of Helstrom ruling is dumb. It still works with other magic weapons though like Ogre Blade or White Sword in high elfs. So no reason to take empire over other armies wizards that can take illusion magic.

Overall Empire taking nerfs with these FAQ's. Probably gonna shelve the army after I get my elf army ready.

And no griffin banner clarify? Lol, terrible rules writers.

[Rodman49]

I disagree with the above statements. Ridden monsters used to be trash in earlier editions, especially the unarmoured ones  like griffons and manticores. Going back to that system will just mean they get shelved again. And I fail to see how removing options (equipment) would somehow give us more options...

Wut?  Ridden Monsters were great from 4th thru 7th edition.

8th edition was literal hot garbage and killed the game.

Removing the superior defensive combos on large targets present more options because players no longer have a clear "best" options.  When a game gives you multiple options and one option is best in every circumstance - the game isn't giving you options - it's being a literal piece of dogshit.

The fact that defensive items cost the same on foot characters as they do someone on a Griffon or Dragon is bananas (a ward save on a model with higher wounds and more toughness should not cost the same as one on a T4 3W foot dude) - and either indicates a late change was made to combine the profiles or an assumption that the player base would not be a bunch of abusive dicks.

Since you have Minsc in your profile . . . it's like someone telling you - you can play a Druid in BG2 . . . but like it's bad and you literally should never do it.

[Syn Ace]

Wish they would have mentioned the lance ruling in the FBIGO section where it definitely applies--but it wouldn't be GW unless you had to read multiple things to get the answer.    If one just read the FBIGO answer (like I did initially), one could think knights couldn't use the lance since the fight is ongoing and they never separated -- but the lance QA clears that up since you count as charging during FBIGO. Too bad that Flagellant flails won't get the +2 bonus since it will be an ongoing fight. 

[Minsc]

I disagree with the above statements. Ridden monsters used to be trash in earlier editions, especially the unarmoured ones  like griffons and manticores. Going back to that system will just mean they get shelved again. And I fail to see how removing options (equipment) would somehow give us more options...

Wut?  Ridden Monsters were great from 4th thru 7th edition.

8th edition was literal hot garbage and killed the game.

Removing the superior defensive combos on large targets present more options because players no longer have a clear "best" options.  When a game gives you multiple options and one option is best in every circumstance - the game isn't giving you options - it's being a literal piece of dogshit.

I can't speak for 4th-5th, but in 6th-7th most of them where terrible (and 8th was terrible in general, on that we can agree.)
Unarmoured T5 monsters died to anything with more punch than a bow, and Cannons bounced on both rider and(!) monster, usually killing either of them in the process.

The problems in TOW isn't monsters having a save, be it ward or regen - it's monsters having tripple layers of saves and possibly other shennanigans on top. A Griffon, Hippogriph, Manticore or Carnosaur with a 3+ or even a 3+/5++ isn't the problem. The problem is stuff like HE and Chaos Dragons with 2+/5++/5+++ or 3+/4++/5+++, etc. Better monsters with better saves on top just pushes it too far.

By making Bedazzling Helmet (And Blood Armour for Dark Elves) infantry/cavalry only, GW are taking steps in the right direction. Now they only need to tweak all the other (often cheap) +1 save items in the game and soon ridden monsters with a 2+ in combination with ward and/or regen will be a thing of the past.

Honestly, the Bedazzling-change alone is already making me less interested in the Griffon General and more willing to run a Demigryph Grand Master instead, but I'm absolutely not writing off the Griffon General. He's still good, he's just not "as good" = more options.
If he (Griffon General) couldn't take any magical items however... yeah he'd be on the shelf in an instant = less options.

Edit: The FAQ also nerfs Tomb Kings on Skeletal Dragons. Per the FAQ; you only get the magical effets of an armour if you actually use it, so if you want the benefit of Armour of the Ages (the number 1 go-to armour for Kings on Skeletal Dragons) you're gonna have to make do with that 6+ light armour instead of benefiting from the Dragons 4+.

So slowly but surely, Ridden Monsters are getting tweaked. Shame they forgot(?) to tweak that stupidly underpriced Dragon Helm for HE and those spammable trollpants for OnG. Maybe in the next update...

[GamesPoet]

Shout out to actually getting a FAQ within 2 months, instead of some time after 2 years like it used to be.

Agreed.

[Syn Ace]

8th edition was literal hot garbage and killed the game.

I liked elements of 8th (stepping up!) What killed the game was people buying other companies' models. True, 8th's large units didn't help, but Fantasy was already on life support. My friend worked for GW sales and he saw the sales numbers for Fantasy and let's put it this way -- GW made more money selling black spray paint than selling Fantasy models. Hence AoS with it's more unique IP and models.

[Skyros]

Too bad that Flagellant flails won't get the +2 bonus since it will be an ongoing fight. 

That's one of the things that could still use an FAQ IMO. The only definition for 'first round of combat' we are given in the book is that 'first round of combat' is short for 'first round of combat fought following a charge'.

Now, if you are counting as charging when pursuing a FBIGO foe, I could see someone arguing they do get the bonus.
I kind of don't think that is intended, but I sure can't find anything stating that for sure in the rule book.

[lcmiracle]

Once again I am reminded why I am for the expansion and enforcement of the death penalty.

[Dazgrim]

I feel like it's more like the new 'counts as charging doesn't mean you count as charging' debate.

Yeah, it's pretty clear cut.

[Athiuen]

Can Knights use drilled to redress the ranks prior to a counter charge?
I think the answer is yes.

[The Peacemaker]

Can Knights use drilled to redress the ranks prior to a counter charge?
I think the answer is yes.

Before the FAQ we all assumed that Drilled referred to "move" in the movement phase. But apparently it's any move during the game except fleeing.
They can do it on counter charge, pursue, etc...

Terrible rules writing.

[Drip.Dingus]

The steam gun turret getting stuck at front arc is alright I guess. I don't think there are any other units quite like a turreted chariot it, so it makes sense not to assume they get their own rules out of no where.

But I guess the Engineer still gets his 360 from firing platform so there's that...

[Kippers]

The steam gun turret getting stuck at front arc is alright I guess. I don't think there are any other units quite like a turreted chariot it, so it makes sense not to assume they get their own rules out of no where.

But I guess the Engineer still gets his 360 from firing platform so there's that...

The steam gun still has 360 firing arc. It’s just the cannon they have specified to be locked to the front arc. So it all still makes sense 😊

[Athiuen]

I don't think the steam gun has 360 vision. It's a breath weapon and breath weapons need to be fired from the front edge of the model.

[sedobren]

8th edition was literal hot garbage and killed the game.

I liked elements of 8th (stepping up!) What killed the game was people buying other companies' models. True, 8th's large units didn't help, but Fantasy was already on life support. My friend worked for GW sales and he saw the sales numbers for Fantasy and let's put it this way -- GW made more money selling black spray paint than selling Fantasy models. Hence AoS with it's more unique IP and models.

well that's what happen when you sell boxes for 10 models almost at the price of what the box for 20 used to be. And when your garbage black spray primer costs 15$...

Because of the inflation we had the last 10 years, some models are technically cheaper now compared the last days of the 8th edition.

[Zygmund]

8th edition was literal hot garbage and killed the game.

I liked elements of 8th (stepping up!) What killed the game was people buying other companies' models. True, 8th's large units didn't help, but Fantasy was already on life support. My friend worked for GW sales and he saw the sales numbers for Fantasy and let's put it this way -- GW made more money selling black spray paint than selling Fantasy models. Hence AoS with it's more unique IP and models.

Over here, 8th killed the game because of the unbalanced army books. Only HC min-maxers enjoyed the game, and they ended up playing precisely the one or two web lists for each army. Because if you didn't, you basically auto lost, unless super lucky. 8th was the most comped version ever, and the predecessor of T9A (SwedComp) was already around before GW killed 8th. All symptoms of horrible balance issues.

-Zyg