Topic: Double Demigryph-Infantry Block - 2,000 Points

[ChaosReigns]

Hoping to make State Troops at least somewhat functional here (I play Bretonnia also, so playing all cav with two armies isn't super appealing).

My hope is that the demigryph characters will make the blocks of State Troops more efficient in a grinding melee. Both would be ranked six wide with the demigryph characters in the centre of each unit. The Demigryph Knights go beside one of the infantry units as a flanker, and the Steam Tank goes beside the other. My intention with this list is to play quasi-defensively, allowing the list's shooting to force most enemy armies to engage on my terms.

I've played double wizard twice already and it has worked out well for me so far. Going for double fireball + pillar of fire on the Battle Magic wizard. The Daemonology wizard can grab the summoning for even more magic missiles, and can then advance with one of the blocks of Staties to take advantage of the buffs + his wizard's familiar for extra dispel potential. 

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MIGA - 2,000 Points [2000 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Empire of Man
===

++ Characters [799 pts] ++

General of the Empire [180 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Great weapon
- Full plate armour
- General
- Demigryph
- The White Cloak

Captain of the Empire [159 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Halberd
- Full plate armour
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Demigryph
- Talisman of Protection

Wizard Lord [195 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 4 Wizard
- On foot
- Wizard's Familiar
- Daemonology

Wizard Lord [220 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 4 Wizard
- On foot
- Lore Familiar
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Battle Magic

Empire Engineer [45 pts]
- Hand weapon

++ Core Units [502 pts] ++

24 State Troops [159 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Halberds
- Light armour
- Sergeant (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

21 Veteran State Troops [208 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Thrusting spears
- Light armour
- Sergeant (champion)
- Standard bearer [War Banner]
- Musician

10 State Missile Troops [90 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Handguns
- Sergeant (champion) [Repeater handgun]

5 Empire Archers [45 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Warbows
- Scouts
- Marksman (champion)

++ Special Units [314 pts] ++

3 Demigryph Knights [189 pts]
- Lances
- Shields
- Full plate armour

Great Cannon [125 pts]
- Great cannon
- Hand weapons

++ Rare Units [385 pts] ++

Steam Tank [265 pts]
- Steam Cannon
- Steam gun

Helblaster Volley Gun [120 pts]

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

[Athiuen]

Double deminfantry is strong, because demi's are strong - but that strength is mainly defensive and based in static combat resolution (ranks, banners, etc). It will be whittled down by tough enemy troops. And it's slow moving.

You'll need to keep them in the middle and win the flanks with your other troops. If your flanks fail, the infantry probably won't save you.

[Sir Falo]

I like the list. I play with state troops and think they work fine. I would say ditch the handgunners and get two more archer regiments. They work very well with your infantry.

[commandant]

If you are keeping the handgunners, and more power if you do, I'd make them a detachment (and not just because I like detachments) but also because you don't lose much and gain kore working togetherness

[stophle]

New to these lands but a longtime empire fan.
How do you represent the Demi Characters on the table?
Is there some good way to Kit bash them?

[commandant]

It depends but if I am putting them in an infantry unit I represent them as infantry models who are the elite bodyguards of the character.

[stophle]

I meant what model to use? Plain Demi’s or kitbashed demi+ something else?

[PowerSeries]

I have Wargames Atlantic Landsknecht orge minis with two wordsmen on the back on the large base.

2 human attacks, 3 monster attacks.  Everything is balanced.

[commandant]

I use 4 greatswords models and a standard bearer arranged on a demigriffon bases with a square cut out to let me slot the general in when he is riding the demi.

I'll post some pictures soon in my painting blog

[stophle]

I see!
I thought about maybe using an actual demigryph 😂
It’d be super cool if a general/captain in dg was released with the arcane journal.

Piggybacking on your list, I think I’d like to try this:
===
Empire of Man [2000 Pkte.]
Warhammer: The Old World, Empire of Man
===

++ Charaktere [779 Pkte.] ++

General of the Empire [180 Pkte.]
- Hand weapon
- Great weapon
- Plate
- General
- Demigryph
- The White Cloak

Captain of the Empire [159 Pkte.]
- Hand weapon
- Halberd
- Full plate armour
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Demigryph
- Talisman des Schutzes

Empire Engineer [55 Pkte.]
- Hand weapon
- Hochland long rifle

Wizard Lord [255 Pkte.]
- Hand weapon
- Level 4 Wizard
- Pegasus
- Wizard's Familiar
- Rubinring der Zerstörung
- Dark Magic

Priest of Sigmar [65 Pkte.]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour
- Shield
- On foot

Priest of Sigmar [65 Pkte.]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour
- Shield
- On foot

++ Kerneinheiten [512 Pkte.] ++

5 Empire Archers [45 Pkte.]
- Hand weapons
- Warbows
- Fire & flee
- Scouts

5 Empire Archers [45 Pkte.]
- Hand weapons
- Warbows
- Fire & flee
- Scouts

23 State Troops [176 Pkte.]
- Hand weapons
- Thrusting spears
- Light armour
- Shields
- Sergeant (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

23 State Troops [176 Pkte.]
- Hand weapons
- Thrusting spears
- Light armour
- Shields
- Sergeant (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

5 State Missile Troops [35 Pkte.]
- Hand weapons
- Crossbows
- Detachment

5 State Missile Troops [35 Pkte.]
- Hand weapons
- Crossbows
- Detachment

++ Eliteeinheiten [314 Pkte.] ++

Great Cannon [125 Pkte.]
- Great cannon
- Hand weapons

3 Demigryph Knights [189 Pkte.]
- Lances
- Shields
- Full plate armour

++ Seltene Einheiten [395 Pkte.] ++

Steam Tank [275 Pkte.]
- Steam Cannon
- Steam gun
- Hochland long rifle

Helblaster Volley Gun [120 Pkte.]

[commandant]

Two warrior priests is interesting. I'd consider 2 of sigmar and 1 of ulric though

[stophle]

I thought it might make sense to beef up the blocks even more.
Given that I don’t have a second priest anyways, I’ll lookninto Ulric.

[commandant]

There is a lack of detachments.

The priest of ulric and sigmar might work well together. Double wounds and re rolling to hit and wound for example.

[Warlord]

There is a lack of detachments.

There are 5 man crossbow detachments.

[commandant]

True.

[stophle]

Indeed, detachments are there. I like this tinkering.
I think this is now the list I’ll Hobby towards:

++ Characters [788 pts] ++
General of the Empire [193 pts]
(Hand weapon, Full plate armour, Shield, General, Demigryph, The White Cloak, Biting Blade)

Captain of the Empire [155 pts]
(Hand weapon, Heavy armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer, Demigryph, Talisman of Protection)

Empire Engineer [45 pts]
(Hand weapon)

Wizard Lord [275 pts]
(Hand weapon, Level 4 Wizard, Pegasus, Wizard's Familiar, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Wizard's Staff, Daemonology)

Priest of Sigmar [60 pts]
(Hand weapon, Light armour, On foot)

Priest of Ulric [60 pts]
(Hand weapon, Light armour, On foot)

++ Core Units [503 pts] ++
5 Empire Archers [45 pts]
(Hand weapons, Warbows, Fire & Flee, Scouts)

5 Empire Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Warbows, Fire & Flee, Scouts, Marksman (champion))

22 State Troops [169 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Light armour, Shields, Sergeant (champion), Standard bearer, Musician)

5 State Missile Troops [35 pts]
(Hand weapons, Crossbows, Detachment)

22 State Troops [169 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Light armour, Shields, Sergeant (champion), Standard bearer, Musician)

5 State Missile Troops [35 pts]
(Hand weapons, Crossbows, Detachment)

++ Special Units [314 pts] ++
Great Cannon [125 pts]
(Great cannon, Hand weapons)

3 Demigryph Knights [189 pts]
(Lances, Shields, Full plate armour)

++ Rare Units [395 pts] ++
Steam Tank [275 pts]
(Steam Cannon, Steam gun, Hochland long rifle)

Helblaster Volley Gun [120 pts]

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

[Footpatrol2]

Out of curiosity what spells are you trying to get on your wizard lord. I don't use demo that much.

Also your wizard lord is on a Pegasus but you only have 3 Demi's which means he cannot benefit from lone character rules where he can be targeted. He has zero defenses. That a magic missle and your wizard lord is dead potentially.

[commandant]

Depending on the foe being on a peggy is quite strong defense as the movement lets you keep out of charge and shooting arcs.   However if you opponent fields lone on foot wizards then magic missiles could be a large problem.

[stophle]

I said I was a noob 😂

Regarding spells:
The summoning for sure, goes with the wizard staff
Ideally demonic vigor and gathering darkness to buff/hex.
Of the rest I see all being usable on occasion. Daemonic vessel maybe not as much, as he won’t join units.

However, good point about not having anything fast to protect the wizard / have him hide behind. So I guess I need to place him well and maybe hide with the infantry in the beginning?
I could replace the demis with 5  plain knights and 5 outriders. Would need to shuffle the magic items a bit though.
Not sure. Let me build and try 😂

[Footpatrol2]

So you have a "come to me list".
The wizard lord might be better on foot. And within 3 inches of a infantry block so he cannot be targeted. Because of the spells, demo and Ruby ring he needs Los to be effective so hiding him behind a block will cut down his effectiveness.

Ya he might be less mobile but he is not a target now.

[Warlord]

He is probably better off being on foot with your units for the first part of the game.

[stophle]

I had my first teaching game (3,5 turns) with this list yesterday 🥰
It was so much fun and the Block with the captain survived a lance charging it. After falling back and flanking with archers even destroyed them.

I learned that the 5 man crossbow detachments are not really worth it, might join them into one 10 man or swap with melee troops.
The wizard survived and caused some mischief.
The Demi unit would benefit a lot from command and a 4th knight.

I have questions regarding the inclusion of the Demi characters into the units though:
- how does the Demi’s fear work? Do charging units have to be larger than the single Demi?
- can he paced central or does the standard have to be in the center?