Topic: Square Based Online Tournament - Army Comp Analysis

[Indio]

Hi everyone,

I just completed an army composition analysis of the recent Square Based Online Tournament. I looked at points across characters, core, special & rare -- as well as average points/character and count of mages in army.

I broke it down by the top 25% of finishers based on wins & points, middle 50%, and bottom 25%

There were a few things that stood out, which also somewhat confirmed what I expected.

For Characters:
Top 25%: averaged 910 points, median 953
Middle 50%: averaged 843 points, median 863
Bottom 25%: averaged 756 points, median 776

Average points per character were also higher for the top 25% (293) compared to middle and bottom finishers, (256, 243, respectively)

The only other thing that stood out was that the bottom 25%, despite having lowest character points on average, had the highest average mage count.

For core, rare, specialty -- nothing really stood out in terms of what drove results. Close to minimum core across the board.

Here is the data if anyone is interested: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qv6tphVBkLovCUkDJ0BBMqEsgX01eqsmsIBMClq9akA/edit?usp=sharing

Obviously these are generalizations, and there were some low character point armies in the top 25%, and some high character point armies in the bottom 25%, and it may be different by army, and other caveats you can think of.

But it's interesting to keep in mind when trying to field a competitive list for the Empire. I plan on maxing out character points across as few of characters as possible the next few lists I bring...along side the state troops I keep trying to win with.

[Degendorff]

That’s very interesting, many thanks for your work here!

My first thought was regarding the high points for characters: in none of my lists do I have more points in characters than about 700, which therefore is the lowest 25%, and even there less then average. Same is true for average points of a hero.

But, if I think about it, the Empire is lacking those expensive characters and especially their expensive choices. In my latest list I have a general on imperial griffon for around 300 points, a lvl 4 wizard, a bsb on demigryph and two engineers. Those Engineers are cheap, as are our captains and generals.

If high point cost in heroes correlates with success, the reason might very well be that dragons and other really powerful mounts are the reason and make lists more successful. Which could indicate that armies without access to those powerful choices are less likely to win.

[Indio]

Totally agree it's difficult for The Empire to hit that average hero points. And that in TOW it's likely a disadvantage for us. But, I do think the total hero point cost is the more important of the two.

Empire, Orcs & Goblins, and Vampire Counts saw success in the tourney with lower points/hero count, but high overall character points.

Toying around today, I've been looking at the following character load outs to max out character spend:
2 Wizards
++ Characters [971 pts] ++

General of the Empire [380 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Lance (if appropriately mounted)
- Full plate armour
- General
- Imperial Griffon [Two heads]
- Bedazzling Helm
- The White Cloak
- Enchanted Shield

Wizard Lord [215 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 4 Wizard
- On foot
- Wizard's Staff
- Wizard's Familiar
- Daemonology

Master Mage [110 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 2 Wizard
- On foot
- Dispel Scroll
- Elementalism

Captain of the Empire [211 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Halberd
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Battle Standard Bearer [Griffon Standard]
- Demigryph
- Ruby Ring of Ruin

Empire Engineer [55 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Grendade launching blunderbuss


Grand Master
++ Characters [993 pts] ++

General of the Empire [380 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Lance (if appropriately mounted)
- Full plate armour
- General
- Imperial Griffon [Two heads]
- Bedazzling Helm
- The White Cloak
- Enchanted Shield

Grand Master [302 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Lance
- Full plate armour
- Demigryph
- Talisman of Protection
- The Silver Horn
- Duellist's Blades

Wizard Lord [180 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 4 Wizard
- On foot
- Wizard's Staff
- Daemonology

Captain of the Empire [131 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Halberd
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Demigryph

[drweir4]

Most of my lists run very hot on character points

I’ve tried almost all the combos currently available like 2 grand masters on Demis with full magic items, a bsb and a mage. 2 imperial griffon generals with 2 mages etc etc

I think where empire can maybe compete is in points efficient big characters compared to some of the other factions that mean for example you can have 2 behemoth characters and a wizard and a bsb. My next test will have the following characters:

## Characters [850pts]
Captain of the Empire [123pts]: Hand Weapon, Shield, Lance, Barded Warhorse (Barding, Hand Weapon), Full Plate Armour, Battle Standard Bearer, Dragon Bow
Engineer [55pts]:
• 1x Empire Engineer [55pts]: Hand Weapon, Grenade Launching Blunderbuss
General of the Empire [292pts]: Hand Weapon, Shield, Lance, Imperial Griffon (Heavy Armour, Serrated Maw, Wicked Claws), Full Plate Armour, General, The White Cloak
Wizard Lord [380pts]: Hand Weapon, Wizard Level 4, Battle Magic, Imperial Griffon (Heavy Armour, Serrated Maw, Wicked Claws), Lore Familiar, Ruby Ring of Ruin

The problem empire has is scaling and many of the win big factions can apply proportionally cheap items to monsters for the same points as for a single guy (eg troll hide trousers are always 40 points but have far more game impact when on a wyvern than a boar). Because empire doesn’t have dragons it just can’t ever get the power spikes that others can

That being said I do think the imperial grifffon is an ok buy for a behemoth, it’s actually the guy on top who is a bit underwhelming. Here’s hoping that changes in the arcane journal

[Degendorff]

This is not a strong opinion, just some brainstorming: a hero is nothing more than a unit with a certain amount of special rules. It is a highly customisable unit, which is probably the main reason why investing a lot of points in a character can be so useful. 100 points of wisely chosen magic items can buff the hero unit immensely. Choosing a mount that adds 6 wounds triples the hero’s survivability by the same amount. Adding a 4++ doubles it again, etc. etc.

But, the point costs is only an indicator of such wise choices, it’s not the choice per se. Do we really have hero choices that benefit from using 100p of magic items?

With the General on imperial griffon, I don’t feel like we have a lot of useful expensive choices. Anything more than white cloak and maybe a dragon bow or a ruby ring of ruin seem mediocre if anything for the general, and those could be given to any character. Instead of paying 40-50 points for a magic item without any effect I could just get another engineer who might have a big impact on the game.

So, it might be that it is more about the investment in the hero section than it is in the point cost of each hero, because that is a rather limited factor.

With this in mind, why not the Griffons? The captain on griffon is a rather cheap option to get a rather powerful beast. Having three of them might not hurt!

++ Characters [997 pts] ++
General of the Empire [312 pts]
(Hand weapon, Lance (if appropriately mounted), Full plate armour, Shield, General, Imperial Griffon, The White Cloak, Sword of Might)

Captain of the Empire [215 pts]
(Hand weapon, Lance (if appropriately mounted), Full plate armour, Battle Standard Bearer, Griffon, Charmed Shield)

Captain of the Empire [190 pts]
(Hand weapon, Lance (if appropriately mounted), Full plate armour, Griffon, Charmed Shield)

Wizard Lord [190 pts]
(Hand weapon, Level 4 Wizard, On foot, Lore Familiar, Elementalism)

Empire Engineer [45 pts]
(Hand weapon)

Empire Engineer [45 pts]
(Hand weapon)

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

Of course, the bsb could swap the griffon for a demigryph and might be even more useful, maybe depending on the list, it could just be another captain not a bsb, but the list is just going strong on the idea that characters are the better/more useful/more competitive choice.

[drweir4]

Griffon is only a monstrous creature not a behemoth and that makes a big difference especially because it means your stomps don’t get ap-2. The stomps from the imperial griffon are basically the only really reliable damage output and is much more impactful for only 30 points more