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Author Topic: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!  (Read 2895 times)

Offline retrojetpacks

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2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« on: August 28, 2024, 12:16:21 PM »
Hey all!
I'm heading to a mini tournament this Saturday and bringing this list with some good state troop representation. I've played it a few times now, and it does well if I can keep the artillery firing. Demigryphs generally overperform, except last week where they failed 9 saves in a row.

Not expecting to place high, but let me know what to watch out for, how would you play this list? The list is already submitted but I'll appreciate feedback for next time.

Is lacking cheap chaff for now, but the daemonology magic missiles are quite strong against opponents chaff.

===
Men of Menscherfresserhoffen [1999 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Empire of Man
===

++ Characters [657 pts] ++

Magister Elke von Teufelheim [190 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 4 Wizard
- General
- Pegasus
- Daemonology

Wizard Lord Grendel Geheimflüster [130 pts]
- Hand weapon
- On foot
- Daemonology

Captain Inga von Teufelheim [76 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Full plate armour
- Pistol
- On foot
- Biting Blade
- Charmed Shield

Captain Helga von Heffelspitz [109 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Halberd
- Full plate armour
- Pistol
- Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner]
- On foot

Priest of Sigmar Geerta Grübenhauser [67 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Great weapon
- Heavy armour
- On foot

Engineer Albrecht Zweiblick [85 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Grenade launching blunderbuss
- Ruby Ring of Ruin

++ Core Units [602 pts] ++

24 Veteran State Troops [257 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Light armour
- Shields
- Sergeant (champion)
- Standard bearer [Griffon Standard]
- Musician

30 State Troops [195 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Halberds
- Light armour
- Sergeant (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

6 Empire Knights [150 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Lances
- Shields
- Heavy armour
- Drilled (0-1 unit per 1,000 points)
- Preceptor (champion)
- Standard bearer

++ Special Units [620 pts] ++

11 Empire Greatswords [174 pts]
- Great weapons
- Full plate armour
- Drilled
- Veteran
- Count's Champion (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

3 Demigryph Knights [196 pts]
- Lances
- Shields
- Full plate armour
- Standard bearer

Great Cannon [125 pts]
- Great cannon
- Hand weapons

Great Cannon [125 pts]
- Great cannon
- Hand weapons

++ Rare Units [120 pts] ++

Helblaster Volley Gun [120 pts]

Offline drweir4

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Re: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2024, 09:55:47 PM »
Not really sure what the plan is for all the characters and which units they go in, but the veterans with griffon and bsb is your one answer to a dragon if you can keep the dragon unsupported and bait it into charging (which is hard, especially without chaff and/or redirections). Your best bet is to try to take the charge with the knights (who should have stubborn) and challenge with the champion and hope the knights only fbigo so that the veterans can then charge in and ensure the combat is won and then the knights can pursue to run it down

That means the artillery really needs to target the things that would support a dragon as they are unlikely to kill it (and you don’t necessarily have the drops or mobility to counter deploy)

One of your biggest issues is going to be leadership and protecting your general on the Pegasus as there is only the knights who can stop him being targeted so he’s often going to need to hide

Offline Warlord

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Re: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2024, 12:55:05 AM »
One of your biggest issues is going to be leadership and protecting your general on the Pegasus as there is only the knights who can stop him being targeted so he’s often going to need to hide

The Demi's can help with that too, can't they? I can't recall if it was US5 or 5 models.

Personally, I feel like you have too many points in core. Thats 100 points you can spend on something better, such as Demigryph mounts for your two captains.
The main changes I would make, to accomodate that, is dropping veterans and state troops.
Veterans down to 19, and state troops down to 22 (I run halberds 7x4). The bodies that were infantry, are now taken up by Demigryphs who give your characters an extra wound, and more killing power in those two units. You also don't need Biting Blade or Halberd anymore, as the Demigryph adds a lot more damage. If you still want magic attacks, just take the Burning Blade. And give a Charmed shield to the BSB to make him more survivable (you can take more than 1 Charmed Shield).

Other minor changes, would be dropping the Standard on the knights, questioning the pistols on the characters, and maybe enough points for a musician for the Demigryph unit.

I honestly think that as a tweak would enhance the effectiveness of your infantry blocks...


Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline drweir4

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Re: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2024, 04:13:20 AM »
It’s models for character targeting, not unit strength

Offline Warlord

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Re: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2024, 05:02:15 AM »
Ah. Well it depends on how much terrain you play with then.

You could take the list even further, while keeping similar feel by taking out the Warrior Priest and second Wizard Lord, and putting in the standard Lector on War Altar with White Cloak and GW for 279pts.

To fit it in, reduce the halberdiers down to 20 models, drop the pistols, take one of the captains off the demigryph (probably the non-BSB one) and he can join the halberds, and reduce the size of that Greatsword unit down to 10, removing all the extras other than champion and musician.

Now you have a very hard to kill Altar, you can even make it your general so it stays with your lines instead of the Wizard Lord. It can do what your warrior priest was doing, with a better chance of prayer success. It's something that kind of demands attention from your opponent, and can also help slow down enemy wizard activity.

Anyway, just a thought.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline commandant

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Re: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2024, 09:56:08 AM »
I'm not 100% sure what the point of this captain is.

Quote
Captain Inga von Teufelheim [76 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Full plate armour
- Pistol
- On foot
- Biting Blade
- Charmed Shield

What role do you see the captain playing?

Offline Warlord

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Re: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2024, 11:08:11 AM »
I assume that guy is a hero for the halberds.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline commandant

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Re: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2024, 12:22:37 PM »
True but there is a warrior priest as well.

Offline Warlord

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Re: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2024, 12:40:59 AM »
True but there is a warrior priest as well.

I assumed he went with the Greatswords.
Better way to get the state troops to Ld8, and Warrior priest can buff the attacks of the greatswords with a prayer.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline commandant

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Re: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2024, 06:58:38 AM »
I figured that the BSB went with the greatswords. It would be interesting if the OP could state where the characters are meant to go.

Offline drweir4

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Re: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2024, 11:26:00 AM »
Great swords are already veteran though so I find tend to benefit less from a bsb

Offline retrojetpacks

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Re: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2024, 02:06:41 PM »
Heya, op here.

Yep, captains for the state troop blocks, priest in theory for the great swords. Bsb will go in the veterans if opponent has a large mounted lord.

I did toy around with demigryph captains but didn't get them modelled up yet.

If the foot wizard roles up demonic vessel I've also thrown him in with the halberds. Steed of shadows makes the infantry very manoueverable, but I don't think it would work if I add demigryph characters?

Appreciate the list tweak ideas but its too late for tomorrow! I'll report back on how it goes:)


Offline retrojetpacks

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Re: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2024, 08:20:17 PM »
First game against dwarves. Obviously the two ancient allies were hesitatant to trade blows, as they got off to a cagey start. Gyrocopters flashed up my left flank, but fluffed their charges, exposing themselves to the cannons. I faffed around to reposition my knights, and steed of shadows fly the great swords up behind the rangers.

Disaster! Ranger crossbows killed and panicked the veteran greatswords and they fled off the board, big oof.

On the left, my demigryphs took a pounding going into the iron drakes. Ultimately they struggled through the first unit before being gunned down by the second.

My cannons and level 4 almost dealt with the gyrocopters. Unfortunately the remaining 1 on one wound cleared up both my cannons with impact hits. I got greedy and fired at the longbeards when I should have focussed on ending the warmachine threat.

In the centre our units were very cagey, except for the magic hammer slinging thane who killed my engineer and general. Note, dont leave characters exposed to magic missies! 800 point differential win to the dwarves.

---

Game 2 against orks and goblins. Early victory as the helblaster rolled 30 shots,  killing 14 night goblins and panicking. Annoyingly they continued to flee slowly and rallied by the end. We actually made a mistake since they were under 25%.

On the right the other night goblins arcane urgencied towards me to unleash fanatics. Luckily my halberdiers picked up an opportunistic flank charge, crushing them and pursuing into wolf riders. They were subsequently rear charged by black orks, but fell back in good order and stayed healthy.

On my left flank, horror. Wyvern, bone grinder an walloper one hit wonder cave squid came for the warmachines. A misfire and combat prevented me from cannoning any of the big beasts. An amazing effort from the great swords and an early finish saved the warmachines. I won, but by a very narrow margin.

---
Game three was an empire civil war against a talabecland knight/war machine list. We blasted at each other, but I failed to counter deploy against the knights and peg captain coming for my warmachines. Demis chewed up knights, and my state troops ploughed forward to destroy his artillery. Ultimately I didn't have enough flexibility to catch or kill off his lone characters and I lost by 250.

Over all a good day! Love war machines and statetroops. Core knights were pretty disappointing. I need to watch out for leaving characters exposed. I might try dropping the knights, but unsure for what.

Sadly I came 19th out of 22. The placings were ranked by wins, then total claimed points. Had I  won my last game (perhaps by killing my opponents level 4 since I came close a few times) I would have rocketed up to 9th place at the bottom of the 2 win bracket. Using 6ed style points differentials I think my ranking would have been better(?). Better luck next time! Overall a great day of gaming.

Offline drweir4

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Re: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2024, 07:34:43 AM »
I think I just read the same report on the hate discord ;)

I guess there’s not too many empire players lol

Offline retrojetpacks

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Re: 2k Empire list - tactics advice wanted!
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2024, 08:29:38 AM »
You got me!

We should get a game in sometime:)