Topic: Foreign Ministry

[Rufas the Eccentric]

I am renaming this thread as the topic has moved beyond the dwarf/Ogre alliance to encompas all potential alliances.


http://www.bugmansbrewery.com/forum/Greetings-Dwarf-Thinlingsand33-t17050.html

The Ogres have offered an Alliance with the Dwarves of Bugman's Brewery.  I'm not that big on the  entire campaign thing but thought you would like to know.  Your faithful spy, Rufas the E. 

[Veldemere]

Peachy! Lets get the Woodies on side then to help us deal with the Brets.

[Powder Monkey]

Yes, let's have the Wood Elves join! We can propably use them to escort our big forest burning warmachine to places we want to turn into scorched wastelands. That'll make the woodies happy! 

Your PM

[Veldemere]

My Mummy told me not to play with matches so I have still not bought into this whole torching our livlehoods, but then I also do not use napalm to make toast. The reason I was thinking of the woodies was because they would support us in not allowing the cheese munchers in taking our land.

[Rufas the Eccentric]

If you want to get the wood elves on board, then a formal proposal "in charachter" would be best.  The Ogres certainly went all out in their approach to the Dwarves.

[Tostig]

I see no reason why it shouldn't be possible. Here's a quick (and I mean quick. I'm also not entirely sober, which doesn't help.) mock up of what we could pull off. Not knowing what to write, I C&Ped some Shakespeare:



If I was doing it properly I'd probably use one of the detached seals they had, to be more authentic, and perhaps a more medieval typeface, or otherwise hand write it (my handwriting's pretty cursive, as conspicuous can attest. I just can't get it to work as well on my tablet), and make the Karl Franz either more signature like, or an elaborate set of initials. Making it a .png would probably help with the edges, but at the expense of some types of IE not being able to handle it. What are we looking for, cartoony or authentic?

And if some fluffbunny could script it, or at least give me some basics to elaborate upon, it would help.

[Wyzer1]

My Mummy told me not to play with matches so I have still not bought into this whole torching our livlehoods, but then I also do not use napalm to make toast. The reason I was thinking of the woodies was because they would support us in not allowing the cheese munchers in taking our land.

you dont use napalm to make toast? how else can you?

Anyways, @tostig   cool letter thing

[Powder Monkey]

Wait a minute, do we (= the majority of the forum members who are going to participate in the campaign) actually want the wood elves to be our allies? I can see the benefits, but they would object to many of our already decided upon (I think...) mission statements: Burning tainted areas, building forts in the forest and clearing all the nice shady trees next to the roads come to mind... I would also not bet on them to be excited over an alliance with us short sighted, technology worshipping environmentists (No, I don't think this is actually a word too  )

With High Elves and Dwarfs I see much common ground: All of those just want the crown to be in the hands of someone who could stop it from wreaking havoc on the old world, either destroying, hiding or using it in case it could be done for the good of all. We just have slightly different opinions as to who exactly that would be... 

The Wood Elves, however, are just pissed that everybody is suddenly galivanting around their precious forest, leaving candy bar wrappings and pulling off twigs of cute little trees. This group of tree-disturbers would also include us, the Empire, as I see the WE as almost entirely neutral to the world outside their realm.

Whew, this turned into a much post than I intended. Do not think I entirely oppose the idea of an alliance with the WE, in fact I like the thought! But it would be difficult in terms of fluff as well as in terms of actually getting the WE players and the rest of our Empire players here to cooperate. If someone comes up with a reasonable fluff for a cooperation and the majority here is favoring it, then by all means proceed!

Your forest loving, tree jumping PM

[Powder Monkey]

Another thought about alliances: One race that would more likely be supporting the Empire are the Lizardmen! They are still undecided as of who to support, but maybe we can convince them to help us keeping the crown from falling into the wrong hands (= not ours). We could together with some Lizard communities secure the crown and either destroy it ourselves (and with a little help by a second generation slann or two) or see to it that it reaches the dwarfs for them to bother themselves with it.

Or another idea, unfortunately to big to pull of for fan communities: Why not secretly send the crown to the Lizardmen for them to bury it in the deepest vault of the biggest pyramid, where the heaviest slann will permanently sit on it while taking a nap for a few thousand years? This would end this nemesis crown business once and for all, because who would want to wear a crown no matter how powerful once a giant toad sat on it for hundreds of years? 

I'm getting carried away...

Your nemesis PM

[Jerok]

I believe that, since it follows our Mission Statement, we should also try for an alliance with the Dwarfs. A Power Triangle of Ogres, Human and Dwarfs (Tallest to Shortest, obviously) would be great and reasonably fluffy.

Of course, the WE would be interesting to ally with, but I don't like the thought of having to attend tea parties the night before a battle... i'd prefer good dwarven ale in front of the magically transmitted Blood Bowl match.

I'll be putting this in the voting thread...

[Demonslayer]

Wait a minute, do we (= the majority of the forum members who are going to participate in the campaign) actually want the wood elves to be our allies?

After the last few campaigns I'd rather not side with any elves of any kind. Damn SPE's!

Personal feelings aside, I think PM is right about this; the WE aren't going to form an alliance with anyone who wants to harm the forest. which is pretty much what we're doing. However I'm also not trusting the High Elves on this; the crown is pretty damn powerful, and since they're so full fot ehmselves they'll probably want it very bad, "because they're the only ones who can handle it". Which would upset the dwarfs. And I'm much more looking forward to teaming up with the dwarfs than with the high elves.

[Tostig]

I have to say I'm not too keen on the pointy eared gits either. What if we were instead to propose an alliance with, say, the Brettonians. They may be arrogant, backwards, stuck up dogs, but at least they're human. Looking at it more rationally, neither of us could deal with the Crown on own own, we have strong trading links and have both worked together a lot in the past. Sure, things can get a bit rough on the border at times, but what else are hot-headed young nobles for?

As for the lizardmen - I'm not sure exactly how we'd go about it. Send off a young Estalian covered in tomato sauce? They're culture is just so alien to the Empire, and I'm not entirely sure as to what they might want from an alliance.

Dividing the traditionally 'good' races, as they've done, was a good idea in my opinion. It means we all have to think

[Rufas the Eccentric]

I have to say I'm not too keen on the pointy eared gits either. What if we were instead to propose an alliance with, say, the Brettonians. They may be arrogant, backwards, stuck up dogs, but at least they're human. Looking at it more rationally, neither of us could deal with the Crown on own own, we have strong trading links and have both worked together a lot in the past. Sure, things can get a bit rough on the border at times, but what else are hot-headed young nobles for?

Have you looked at the background material from GW?   The Bretonnian reason for joining the campaign is that there King has run out of land to give to worthy Nobles. 

With wood elves, we have the common goal of clearing chaos from the forest.  We can also confirm their rights to those portions of the forrest they already claim.  They may be more inclined to necessary measures elsewhere in the forest, if they know their land are secure.

I also think an alliance with the High Elves should be considered.  The Dwarves are already talking about this.  So 1. we need to to keep them off our backs.  2.  The Crown may be useful, but it is also highly dangerous.  If the dangers can be eliminated fine.  Otherwise, the magical expertise of the elves may be necessary to destroy or neutralize the danger. 3.  The combined Imperial and Elvish fleets can protect the costland from Norse and Dark Elf raiders.  A special concern in Nordland. 

Oh and the scroll is nice work.  But we should  decide on a draft quickly.  Does anyone want the honor of serving as ambassador?

[Veldemere]

I agree the HE would be good allies, but I was assuming they would not turn against us anyway as they have always supported us. I was merely hoping to get someone to act as a speed bump for the Brets as the last thing we need when going to war is the whiff of cheese up the rear!

[stretch_135]

I'll volunteer as an ambassador, unless someone with more standing on the board (i.e., a higher post count lol) wants to.

[Reynard_of_Bogenhafen]

I'd like too also, being from the great confleunce and representing huss in all his pious glory.

They're in our sector background wise, and I'm not pushing for burning trees, just the heretics that hide in and around them!

"To the lord of leaf and bough,
                                          We beseech you in this time of darkness to aide us in the slaying of the dark kindred, the usurpers of the north, and despoilers of the great forests. our causes are of mutual interest, together we stand forever as hard as oak. The choice is yours, aide us if you will. We stand forever around you.

Karl Franz"

Veiled threat at the end, if they don't support us we just swamp them. they stand with us they are guaranteed support and a place in the woods forever...

what does anyone else think?

[Veldemere]

Just as a note, if we were to try and get the woodies on board there is no point in asking them to try and wipe out chaos as they will do that anyway, the alliance is to serve one purpose; keep the Brets out of our Empire! The protection of their forest is one way to go but I suspect that they are just like any other group of players and have a dislike of the Brets.

[wissenlander]

Unless the Brets are actually going through Loren, I don't see the Wood Elves caring.  They seem to have an official 'neutral' standing in just about everything.  There are pockets here and there throughout the Empire of Woodies, but not enough to do any real damage.  Still, if we could convince them to side with us that would be cool.

[Tostig]

I've toned it down to re-emphasise the Empire as defending itself, and to apologise for any destruction of the woods we may 'accidentally' cause. What do you think?

"To the lord of leaf and bough,
                                          We beseech you in this time of darkness to aide us in the slaying of the dark kindred, the usurpers of the north, and despoilers of the great forests. Despite what foul mutters come from the mouths of axe-wielding dwarves, we do not encroach into your hallowed woods out of greed or thirst for power, but rather to defend our homes, our lands and our loved ones from that which might try to destroy them. Our causes are of mutual interest, together we stand forever as hard as oak. The choice is yours, aide us if you will, but we would entreat you not to punish us for doing our good work, and for this our labours will be all the less strenuous in the shade of your branches.
                                         To this end our men are under order not to damage your wholesome woods; however we ask your forgiveness for any damage we may inadvertently cause while rooting out and purging the taint in the forest. We stand forever around you.

Karl Franz"

Hmm, how does this look?

[Rufas the Eccentric]

May want to add something to the effect:

Be it known that the Empire respects the just claim that the Wood Elves to their lands within the Laurelorn Forest in perpetuity.  The Imperial forces will not enter the boundaries mark by waystones without specific invitation of the leaders of the Laurelorn communityand that Imperial law shall aggressively punish any citizen who may do so, should he survive the righteous arrows of the Laurelorn Elves.

[Wyzer1]

How about this:

Scorched Earth Policy 

Eh, cant we find anyone better to ally with? Lets ally with orcs!

Well, at least the tree's will be on our side I guess. Whatever, Wood Elves as an ally are better than no ally at all.

[Reynard_of_Bogenhafen]

Yep that definately better!

Who do we approach with this anyways?

[Veldemere]

good call Rufas. Who wants to work on the draft to take over to the Woodies forum?

re the scorched earth policy we are better served using our troops to fight rather than the impossible and unrealistic destruction of forests (think of global warming). Even if the forests were destroyes the beastmen would just go elsewhere (mountains / scrublands) what do we do then, flatten the mountains? I agree fully with clearing the sides of the major roads and forts. It is like having a mouse problem in your house, you do not destroy your house so they have nowhere to hide, destroy their breeding stock and slowly reduce their numbers.

[farmer]

STOP  IF we have to side with any body it HAS to be the High Elves. Do we forget so easily my brothers.  Who was it that helped Maguns in The Great War against chaos. Who was it that showed us how to use magic. They were there again in the SoC fighting and dieing beside us. Now they send a fleet to guard (Rufas's Beloved Nordloand) the Northen Empire when everyone else is invading us. We should be sending our envoys to the lands of the Phoenix Kings.

The Wood elves can't be trusted. They have never been able to make alliance's before because of there way of thinking. They have air of superiority and as far as I'm concerned it stinks. 

If you go ahead with this wood elf alliance I promise you that after this war they will be here to stay. Turning on us for using the woods for our forts and our war machines that we are so proud of. Things are hard enough fighting with the Bestmen. The last thing we need is another faction fighting us on our doorstep.

[wissenlander]

Such a diplomat. 

Ok, here's my take on the situation as it stands...

Woodies:  I don't think they have any reason to help us out.  The majority are in the Loren, just a small bit in the Lorelorn.  If there coud be an alliance formed, as said earlier, it would be grand...but unless the Woodies are themselves threatened, they won't act.  They'll kill envoys as they approach, before they can even say why they're there.

High Elves:  While a bit haughty, aren't completely stupid.  They have been good allies in the last bit and it would be wise to try to side with them as well.  Only issue is that I can see them looking down upon humans for not realizing the great threat that the Crown presents.  Much like the Dwarfs.  If it wasn't for the long standing grudge between the High Elves and the Dwarfs, they'd have the largest claim under the campaign scope to work together.

Brets:  Won't side with us.  Bloody 'Crusade' of theirs.

Dwarfs:  Have every reason to side with us, considering our long standing friendship.  The only reason they 'won't' is because they think we are too ignorant about the evil of the Crown (and the fact that GW wants everyone to fight everyone). 

Ogres:  Even though it is supposed to be every race for itself, I could see the Ogres as allies.  They want to fight and eat, so just offer up the right price and tell them to go bash everyone that tries to enter our lands.

Lizards:  Too distant.  As stated previously, no common ground to work off of.  They would maybe think the Crown was one of their artifacts anyway and try to reclaim it.

Everyone else:  Their evil and have their own reasons that they'd want the crown.  All centering around ruling the world...