Topic: Unengaged combatants in the front rank (and a challenge)

[Syn Ace]

Two guys started debating a situation that occurred in my game. My unit was down to a Grandmaster on a Demigryph and Demigryph champion fighting a Bretonian infantry unit 10 wide. My champion accepted a challenge. My Grandmaster and Demi whiffed. When the Bretonian attacked back, the guy observing the game said the unengaged Bretonians who were on the other side of the champion (away from the Grandmaster), couldn't get their one attack each because the challenge was in the way so they had no way to 'wrap around' to get to the Grandmaster. I mean, it sounds logical, but I am not aware of GW limiting the unopposed combatants like that. Thoughts or rules quotes that might illuminate the situation?

[Footpatrol2]

The Bret's get their supporting attack as if the challenge wasn't there. I had a similar situation pop up with my ogres. We had to call a judge to look up the rule, was at a tournament. I forgot the rule.

[commandant]

I would imagine that if they are in the Fighting rank they get attacks.  I believe the challenge is meant to be removed from the unit and placed to the side but I can't remember where I saw this so don't quote me on it.

[Dazgrim]

I would imagine that if they are in the Fighting rank they get attacks.  I believe the challenge is meant to be removed from the unit and placed to the side but I can't remember where I saw this so don't quote me on it.

It was a thing in earlier editions, though I don't know anyone who ever did.

[commandant]

This is very possible

[Syn Ace]

I believe the challenge is meant to be removed from the unit and placed to the side but I can't remember where I saw this so don't quote me on it.

It was a thing in earlier editions, though I don't know anyone who ever did.

That's been a common misconception  through several editions. It might have been a thing at one point or people read something in the fluff and thought it was rule, though I'm not sure. In the current edition, it says to move them together in the ranks but if it's not practical, to just leave them where they're at and resolve the fight.

Personally, I'm leaning towards they'd get their attacks, but it would be nice to know definitively.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

That's been a common misconception  through several editions.

A ghost from editions past, in casu the 6th edition, where (p.66) "If the models are especially large, it may be more convenient to remove them altogether and place them beside the fighting unit." But already in 7th, in such cases, you simply  left them in place and just assumed they were in btb with each other.

[Syn Ace]

That's been a common misconception  through several editions.

A ghost from editions past, in casu the 6th edition, where (p.66) "If the models are especially large, it may be more convenient to remove them altogether and place them beside the fighting unit." But already in 7th, in such cases, you simply  left them in place and just assumed they were in btb with each other.

Ah, thanks for the reference.

[Dazgrim]

From 5th:

Once a challenge is accepted the two rivals are moved in the ranks so that they are opposite each other. If the models are especially large it may be more convenient to remove them altogether and place them beside the fighting units. When combat is worked out these two will fight together. No other models may attack them even if their bases are touching, and no Other models may shoot at them or use magic to attack them. Once the challenge is underway no further challenges may be issued in that combat until one character is slain. The challenge might therefore last over several turns of combat.

You're quite right, removal was a convenience thing rather than an expectation.

[Hoffa]

In the current edition, it says to move them together in the ranks but if it's not practical, to just leave them where they're at and resolve the fight.

This is a real cop out by GW. The position of models fighting in a challenge matter for what other models can attack but there are no rules about what model (the challenging or the accepting) model should be moved. Nor how to handle if the players disagree about if it's practical or not.

I think the only sane way to do it is to never move any models.

[commandant]

It only really matters if there are other heros in the combat that you want to target.   The fighting line can always hit the other unit's fighting line.